Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

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Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #1  Postby M A T T H A R T L E Y » January 24th 2011, 4:54pm

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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #2  Postby John Liotta » January 24th 2011, 5:01pm

Took a while to end up here.

Hope there is an explanation.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #3  Postby Todd F r e n c h » January 24th 2011, 5:04pm

Wow.
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP)
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #4  Postby Eric LeVine » January 24th 2011, 5:06pm

Horribly, horribly disappointing. My lawyer is NOT amused.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #5  Postby Brian Tuite » January 24th 2011, 5:16pm

I always wondered why unreviewed wines in Snooth had user tags. always thought they were entered by the person entering the wine. I was under the impression that ITB's and consumers enter wine into Snooth and add tags. That would explain seeing 4 entries for the same wine/bottling/vintage with slightly different titles.

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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #6  Postby Cris Whetstone » January 24th 2011, 5:18pm

No good will come of this. Mabray is claiming they are already changing the tags he found to be suspect.

Have they made any response yet?
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #7  Postby Mel Hill » January 24th 2011, 5:27pm

Snooth welcomes two new companies
Posted by Philip, Apr 10, 2007.
Yesterday was a busy day as Wine.com and CellarTracker both agreed to work with Snooth.

Wine.com, the worlds largest online wine retailer
CellarTracker provides cellar management tools and has the worlds largest collection of tasting notes (over 250,000).

We're very excited to be involved with both companies and encourage you to stay tuned for more announcements soon.


Read more: http://www.snooth.com/talk/topic/snooth ... z1C0CHtDeH


What kind of "work together" is this alleged data scraping
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #8  Postby Berry Crawford » January 24th 2011, 5:30pm

Eric LeVine wrote:Horribly, horribly disappointing. My lawyer is NOT amused.


Do you limit the number of HTTP requests based on IP address? Search engines do this so that no one can scrape their data.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #9  Postby gene keenan » January 24th 2011, 5:33pm

I thought you were allowing this Eric or had made some sort of deal with them; I noticed this a while ago.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #10  Postby Eric LeVine » January 24th 2011, 5:34pm

Gene, no deals.
Mel Hill wrote:
Snooth welcomes two new companies
Posted by Philip, Apr 10, 2007.
Yesterday was a busy day as Wine.com and CellarTracker both agreed to work with Snooth.

Wine.com, the worlds largest online wine retailer
CellarTracker provides cellar management tools and has the worlds largest collection of tasting notes (over 250,000).

We're very excited to be involved with both companies and encourage you to stay tuned for more announcements soon.


Read more: http://www.snooth.com/talk/topic/snooth ... z1C0CHtDeH


What kind of "work together" is this alleged data scraping

When Snooth launched in 2007 they were briefly using my tasting note feed (or claiming to but seemed to be scraping my whole site in fact) until I asked them to stop, back in 10/2007. However all the examples in the blog article are from notes generated in the last 3 weeks. CT has grown from 250,000 notes to more than 1.7 million. It would appear that there is very active scraping still going on if Paul is true. (Several of the notes he cites are actually MY notes from my recent dinner with Jancis and even one wine I had to create from scratch which is now on their site. How does that happen?!?!)

Berry, I have looked at some crawling counter-measures, but it is very tricky (and can block legitimate activity). I would also rather spend my time adding features for users and not mess around with lawsuits and other such stuff. This is pretty darned blatant though...
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #11  Postby H Wallace Jr » January 24th 2011, 5:35pm

Between this and the sales traffic not being directed to Bolen's site (which has now been fixed)-- This doesn't look good at all.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #12  Postby Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ » January 24th 2011, 5:39pm

Eric LeVine wrote:My lawyer is NOT amused.

[dance-clap.gif]

Get em Eric!
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #13  Postby Eric LeVine » January 24th 2011, 5:40pm

Cris Whetstone wrote:No good will come of this. Mabray is claiming they are already changing the tags he found to be suspect.

Have they made any response yet?

No.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #14  Postby Brian Tuite » January 24th 2011, 5:51pm

Interesting corollary. From 1-24-11 What's Cooking (arm of Snooth) is their What's Hot/What's Not in 2011

NOT: Cupcakes, gourmet cupcakes, gourmet mini-cupcakes. How far can you milk a trend? I would like to see sugar-encapsulated micro cupcakes sold side by side with Skittles and M&Ms! Seriously, cupcakes have gotten wildly out of hand. We like them for the creamy frosting (remember muffin tops?), so why don’t we just get some of that in small paper cone? Seriously, why am I paying $5 for a scoop of baked dough and topped with butter cream? For that kind of money, not to mention calories, I’d rather have a Napoleon, Linzer torte, or personal cherry pie. Hmmm, personal pies... hot in 2012?

From NPR 1-2-11:
Cupcakes Are Dead. Long Live The Pie!
by BONNY WOLF

Pie is the next cupcake. PIE IS THE NEW CUPCAKE. Spread the word.
January 2, 2011

"Every year, I predict the death of the cupcake. I'm always wrong.

But this year, they'll have real competition from the humble pie. Trend-spotters are calling pie the food of the year. Texas and New York restaurants offer pie happy hours. Pies are showing up at weddings, and pie shops are opening in a neighborhood near you. Pies come in sweet and savory, maxi and mini, deep dish and deep-fried.

If pies are the new cupcakes, New York Magazine says,

snip

Whatever you eat, save room for a slice o
f pie."

Just sayin...
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #15  Postby Bill Tex Landreth » January 24th 2011, 5:55pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:Wow.


+1
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #16  Postby Monte Mast » January 24th 2011, 5:55pm

Wow. This is pretty low.

Coming from public schools where the issue of plagiarism is always just below the surface, I have only seen one instance of such blatant intellectual theft. Frankly, this is shocking.

Unsubscribing from Snooth today.

Eric, I hope you get what you deem as appropriate restitution out of this.

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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #17  Postby Andrew Hall » January 24th 2011, 6:02pm

They also lift images from Cellartracker. There are bottles images which I put up on CT and clearly show my backyard and picnic table in them. I asked Snooth to remove them back in '07 and was effectively told to go away.

The spider crawl stealing of keywords is funny in places. They have taken where I have written 'lacks complexity' and assigned it the keyword of 'complex.' I know it is stolen from my note as the word order is identical as are the other descriptors. They did get smarter at a point and remove more obscure words I used like 'eldritch' but have left words like lanolin.

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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #18  Postby Scott Ho11owe11 » January 24th 2011, 6:05pm

As I said on FB and CT Forum, they are stealing from every CT user that takes the time to post notes and images with the intent to make CT better.

Say it with me...Class Action
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #19  Postby Bill Tex Landreth » January 24th 2011, 6:10pm

Scott Hollowell wrote:As I said on FB and CT Forum, they are stealing from every CT user that takes the time to post notes and images with the intent to make CT better.

Say it with me...Class Action


<<<Class Action>>>
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #20  Postby S. Lancaster » January 24th 2011, 6:11pm

What a scumbag way to run a business. Who runs Snooth anyway? This type of crap make me want to take a shower. Eric, sorry you have to even deal with idiocy like this.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #21  Postby Eric LeVine » January 24th 2011, 6:11pm

http://www.winebusiness.com/insiderblog ... taId=83246
At the end of the day, the data on my site is my site’s data and my user’s data.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #22  Postby G. D y e r » January 24th 2011, 6:17pm

Scott Hollowell wrote:As I said on FB and CT Forum, they are stealing from every CT user that takes the time to post notes and images with the intent to make CT better.

Say it with me...Class Action

Quick question: who owns the notes on CT? Eric/Cellartracker or the users themselves? Seems like that should be in the Terms of Use or other disclaimer you check at the very beginning. Not that it matters since I think Eric acts in good faith--but it does in figuring out who is stealing from whom (or in situations like eBob where they acted in bad faith, though technically their terms of use gave the ownership of the comments they put behind the pay wall).
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #23  Postby ilipner » January 24th 2011, 6:19pm

Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ wrote:
Eric LeVine wrote:My lawyer is NOT amused.

[dance-clap.gif]

Get em Eric!

+1

CT has been the single most important factor in my wine education. I take this as a personal affront.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #24  Postby Scott Ho11owe11 » January 24th 2011, 6:23pm

G. D y e r wrote:
Scott Hollowell wrote:As I said on FB and CT Forum, they are stealing from every CT user that takes the time to post notes and images with the intent to make CT better.

Say it with me...Class Action

Quick question: who owns the notes on CT? Eric/Cellartracker or the users themselves? Seems like that should be in the Terms of Use or other disclaimer you check at the very beginning. Not that it matters since I think Eric acts in good faith--but it does in figuring out who is stealing from whom (or in situations like eBob where they acted in bad faith, though technically their terms of use gave the ownership of the comments they put behind the pay wall).


Eric would have to answer the ownership and TOU question, but in either case (CT owned or User owned) it is an issue of IP infringement and the Nexus of ownership is CT.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #25  Postby Frank Deis » January 24th 2011, 6:33pm

Isn't Greg Dal Piaz 1) a member here and 2) a prominent Snooth person? Maybe he can clue us in...
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #26  Postby bretrooks » January 24th 2011, 6:33pm

(Also as posted on the CT forums...)

User tags from Snooth on the 2005 Tolo Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon:
rich, decant, cocoa, herb, acidic, black fruit, promising

From my tasting note (the only one):
Thursday, May 13, 2010 - Decanted 1 hour, consumed over 1 hour. Rich nose with a hint of heat, although the alcohol content is a reasonable 14.6%. Cocoa, herbs, black fruits, and a nice streak of acidity. Promising, but this needs time to come together.

This doesn't seem to happen to the same degree with every wine where mine is the only note...but still.

Coincidence?

====================

It seems like they might be scraping data from a lot of sources and not checking it. Knowing that Tolo is also the name of a toy company gives me an idea where this listing is coming from, but it's still pretty funny:

http://www.snooth.com/wine/tolo-wiggly- ... he-dragon/
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #27  Postby gene keenan » January 24th 2011, 6:36pm

G. D y e r wrote:
Scott Hollowell wrote:As I said on FB and CT Forum, they are stealing from every CT user that takes the time to post notes and images with the intent to make CT better.

Say it with me...Class Action

Quick question: who owns the notes on CT? Eric/Cellartracker or the users themselves? Seems like that should be in the Terms of Use or other disclaimer you check at the very beginning. Not that it matters since I think Eric acts in good faith--but it does in figuring out who is stealing from whom (or in situations like eBob where they acted in bad faith, though technically their terms of use gave the ownership of the comments they put behind the pay wall).


Here's your answer:

http://www.cellartracker.com/terms.asp?F=TRUE
"By posting Contributions, you are granting to CellarTracker and its licensees a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive and irrevocable right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such Contributions by you (in whole or in part) and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media or technology now or hereafter known."

"“Contributions” means all information, records, tasting notes, comments, data and other material, except for Third Party Materials, posted by you to the Service or otherwise provided by you to CellarTracker."

I read the business insider blog. Snooth looks pretty awful.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #28  Postby Charlie Fu » January 24th 2011, 6:41pm

you know what I hate about Snooth is that when I google a wine their worthless website is the first link.

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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #29  Postby Eric LeVine » January 24th 2011, 6:44pm

Just had a nice chat with one of my lawyers, and we are actively exploring our options.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #30  Postby Scott Ho11owe11 » January 24th 2011, 6:45pm

Not to make light of the situation, but isn't it slightly ironic that Gene's last post about CT ownership of TN's is immediately followed by his AutoSig "The things you own end up owning you"

[snort.gif]

Eric is one of the hardest working guys in WineBiz...it's a shame to see someone work hard to make something that has passion and purpose, only to see it casually stolen by mindless technology. I'm ok with him owning my content, he gives me back in spades for the little bit I contribute and pay him each year.
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #31  Postby H Wallace Jr » January 24th 2011, 6:55pm

Charlie Fu wrote:you know what I hate about Snooth is that when I google a wine their worthless website is the first link.

[worship.gif]

About every 6 mos I also get some douchey-email from a snooth-contributor soliciting free samples due to snooth's seo...
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #32  Postby Charlie Fu » January 24th 2011, 6:56pm

H Wallace Jr wrote:
Charlie Fu wrote:you know what I hate about Snooth is that when I google a wine their worthless website is the first link.

[worship.gif]

About every 6 mos I also get some douchey-email from a snooth-contributor soliciting free samples due to snooth's seo...

i bet they have ever meta tag in the world on their site :D

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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #33  Postby Berry Crawford » January 24th 2011, 6:58pm

Charlie Fu wrote:you know what I hate about Snooth is that when I google a wine their worthless website is the first link.


Totally agree
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #34  Postby Rick Gregory » January 24th 2011, 7:24pm

From the Snooth founders' blog... http://www.bojago.com/2011/01/25/diggin ... e-details/


"...We have made some progress though -- we’re now processing data from over 10,000 sources..."


Um...

"I remember back in 2006 when I first started Snooth, I’d go speak to the guys leading the way in wine data and everyone would try to steer me off trying to create a clean and unified database. Well, there’s a reason why they warned me off it. It really is hard. I know that now. We’ve had PhDs and genome sequencing scientists working on it for four years now. We’ve invested over $1,000,000 in building the first unified database for the industry, and we’ve still got a long way to go."

*cough*....
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Re: Is Snooth scraping data from CellarTracker?

Post #35  Postby Andrew Hall » January 24th 2011, 7:35pm

Rick Gregory wrote:From the Snooth founders' blog... http://www.bojago.com/2011/01/25/diggin ... e-details/



"we’re still the only site that offers both reviews and prices on the same page. Offering either one or the other is simpler, offering both simultaneously is exponentially harder."

This was particularly funny - in a how much bullshit can I pile kind of way.

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