Rhys Incoming....Jan. 31st

[J. Singleton]

A Rhys Zin? Don't tease.

$69 for the Alpine is unfortunate. I mean we'd all like it to be $40 a bottle, but that's just not going to happen. But like all things, if you get priced out of Rhys, there will definitely be another winery to come along, you can count on that. So be sad for a split second that your Rhys days might be nearing and end, but I'm guessing you'll be juuuuuuust fine overall, whoever you are.

[Al Osterheld]

Zinfandel needs heat just like Nebbiolo. Even if they could ripen it, there's the opportunity cost of using prime Pinot vineyard plots for Zin. I haven't gotten my head around Teroldego in California. The winery where I work part time made a Teroldego in 2011, it will be interesting to see how it evolves. But, given the market (and, frankly, the basic potential) I wouldn't be spending the money to develop SCM vineyards for Teroldego. How much would you pay for an Alpine Teroldego?

As far as the Rhys pricing, I never expected the prices to stay at the 2004 levels. It's not as if they have broken new ground as far as CA Pinot pricing.

-Al

[Tyler McAfee]

There might always be more wineries, but Rhys just isn't your everyday winery. That's why people get so worked up over them.

[M. Dildine]

How much would you pay for an Alpine Teroldego?

There has been a resurgence of interest in esoteric varieties in California. I shouldn't have mocked the idea. The Rhys Team is quite open minded IMO.

If there was a Rhys Teroldego, I'd probably have to give it a taste.

[Tyler McAfee]

How much would you pay for an Alpine Teroldego?

There has been a resurgence of interest in esoteric varieties in California. I shouldn't have mocked the idea. The Rhys Team is quite open minded IMO.

If there was a Rhys Teroldego, I'd probably have to give it a taste.

Nope. Your first response was appropriate. ;)

[Alan C h a n]

A Rhys Zin? Don't tease.

$69 for the Alpine is unfortunate. I mean we'd all like it to be $40 a bottle, but that's just not going to happen. But like all things, if you get priced out of Rhys, there will definitely be another winery to come along, you can count on that. So be sad for a split second that your Rhys days might be nearing and end, but I'm guessing you'll be juuuuuuust fine overall, whoever you are.

You're right Jeb; even if some people decide that they are priced out of Alpine, at least Rhys has made an SCM bottling available. Everyone will be just fine.

[Wes Barton]

Ron, again, you're trying to artificially create apples to apples, or oranges to oranges, where there simply isn't a need to. Next Tuesday I can either order a bottle of Alpine or walk in to a store and buy a 1er Cru burg. In past years that choice would have been Alpine, or a village burg. No need to create a scenario of a retailer that conditions availability of future purchases on this purchase - if you need that scenario, your point is of pretty limited usefulness. My scenario will be reality in two days. My $69 will go to one or the other. I can buy an apple or an orange, I don't need to make them both mailing list conditions.

You are implying that the price escalation for Rhys exceeds that for Burgundy over a period of time. (i.e. in past vintages Rhys competed in price with Village, now it's 1er).

Is that what you really mean to imply?

I don't think I've said anything at all about price escalation in Burgundy. What I have said, which I'll say with more detail this time, is something like this:

-I used to look at Alpine pinot at $49 and say, about the standard price for a village burg - no brainer, I buy as many as I can afford (and get allocated).
-At $59 for Alpine, I said to myself, about the price of a slightly higher end village wine - say, Fourrier village wines - and I think Alpine is that good for me, so I still buy without much hesitation.
-At $69 for Alpine, I start saying, whoa, that's the ballpark of 1er cru pricing for a lot of really good Burg producers. I rarely allow myself to spend 1er cru $$, Rhys Alpine should no longer be an automatic no-brainer either. If I'm gonna spend that kind of cash, might I enjoy some of the 1ers more? Maybe I should buy a little less Alpine and check out some of those 1ers I've been ignoring til now.

That's it. No statements about whether Rhys is right to raise prices, no statements about what the trend is in burg prices. Just a recognition that the Rhys wines have moved up to a new price and competition level for me, that may affect how many bottles I order.

But, with the '09 Alpine PN (and going forward) you have a marked increase in quality as the lesser lots go into the SCM, which is $45. So, with the most recent price increase it's more fair to consider that it's a $69 wine and a $45 wine compared to a $59 wine.

[Alan C h a n]

A fair point Wes, and one that Kevin mentioned early in the thread. Perhaps the declassification of some fruit will indeed help the Alpine bottling meet its higher priced competition (I havent said it wouldnt) . For me though, its more of an issue that it's broken through the $60 price barrier, which I rarely cross. So, buying some SCM to bring average cost down is definitely part of my plan.

[Kevin Harvey]

You're right Jeb; even if some people decide that they are priced out of Alpine, at least Rhys has made an SCM bottling available. Everyone will be just fine.

Alan,
To further that point, in 2010 our largest production wine is our Rhys San Mateo Pinot. It was made with 50% of Family Farm's production, 50% of Horseshoe's production plus a few barrels of Alpine. I think the result is comparable in quality to some of our earliest vineyard designates.
Additionally, we intend to have an Anderson Valley bottling at some point in the future so I think we will continue to have plenty of wine for people looking for lower price points.

[Darren Watts]

Fairly new to the list, this will be my second order. Haven't popped a Rhys cork yet. With the prices getting up towards my limit, I really need to try one soon to see if its my thang. Have 09 Bearwallow and Family Farm Pinots. Any recs on which one to throw at a hunk of Salmon off the Traeger this week? thx

Darren, I would open the Family Farm and I would decant it for an hour or two before drinking. I think it's a good example of the Rhys style and is probably more approachable than any of the other 2009s right now.

Thanks again Jeff. Gave it two hours of air in the decanter and it paired nicely with the Salmon. Actually enjoyed it around the 5 hour mark. Got the sweet Cali fruit but enjoyed the tea profile I usually get out of OR and the structure that reminded me of a Burg.

[J. Galang]

Tomorrow's Jan. 31st, just saying....

[Brian Zamkotowicz]

Does anyone know what the policy on not ordering during a period is? I fear as prices increase I may have to move to one order per year. is that even possible or would i be cut off for missing every other order?

[markye]

Does anyone know what the policy on not ordering during a period is? I fear as prices increase I may have to move to one order per year. is that even possible or would i be cut off for missing every other order?

By moving to one order, you cut off some of the wines. or do you mean you only want what's offered in the fall?

u can always just order 2 bottles or something.. and a few more in the fall..

the Chard is coming. i hear that's a can't miss

[Brian R Bachman]

Someone asked earlier about the price of Marcassin..

Current Marcassin Marcassin Vineyard is $125, other vineyards are $75-80

$100 California/Oregon Pinot is no longer uncommon.

It is also a question of supply/demand. And the owners philosophy on mailing list retention and long term loyalty.

That said, I am a buyer of Rhys.

[Craig Roush]

I'm sure it's been covered before somewhere, but do people know if the allocations are guaranteed for the entire ordering period? I'm debating whether to push this one into the next credit card cycle or not. I'll probably just order right away when the offer is posted, but was curious as to how Rhys handles theirs.

[K. R. Baker]

i tremendously enjoyed another bottle of '04 home vineyard this past weekend. it was (once again) one of my favorite cali pinots if not my favorite ever. what's scarey is that this was the first vintage released of this wine! i can't wait until some of the more recent bottlings have reached maturity.

ready to order!

[CWun]

I'm sure it's been covered before somewhere, but do people know if the allocations are guaranteed for the entire ordering period? I'm debating whether to push this one into the next credit card cycle or not. I'll probably just order right away when the offer is posted, but was curious as to how Rhys handles theirs.

In the past when available inventory ran out, the Rhys team took extra steps to make it right. So the short answer, is don't lose sleep over it.

[Nathan V.]

IIRC, Rhys 2004 Alpine was released at $49. Tomorrow, 2009 Rhy's Alpine will be released at $69. Over the span of six vintages, the price has increased by 40% (about 5.4% annual rate of increase).

Please identify a high-end Villiage, 1er, or GC Burgundy with a lower rate of price increase (release price) over the same period of time.

Mike, I believe you and Cary were there when I visited and tasted through the 2008s with a group of people.

That was the best line-up of California wine I have ever tasted and the best pinot noir line-up by a good, long distance.

This is why I buy Rhys. Yes, I'd like them to cost less, but they represent fine value, IMO. I think almost everyone can agree on this point.

Mugneret-Girbourg, Barthod, Esmonin, and a couple of others have not changed in that period. The real period of change was between 1999 and 2005 when a host of factors conspired to double to price of many Burgundies that I (used to) buy.

That being said, I have a psychological threshold at around $100 that would be very tough for me to break, even for wines as good as Rhys. Now, if they really do interesting things in bottle, then maybe they'll be worth that.

I think it is perfectly fair for them to find a price where the wine is within 5-10% of the secondary market, even if it personally effects my buying.

[M. Dildine]

$100 California/Oregon Pinot is no longer uncommon.

Brian, I'm not sure I agree. We have Marcassin. I believe I payed around $100 for a Rochioli West Side. I really can't think of others.

California Pinot, while on a steep quality ascent in the low to mid alcohol ranges, is (yet) not priced with trophy wines from Napa, Burgundy and Bordeaux. Not even close.

The top wines from producers like Rhys, Copain and Littorai are still at or below $80.

[Ty Webb]

Does anyone know what the policy on not ordering during a period is? I fear as prices increase I may have to move to one order per year. is that even possible or would i be cut off for missing every other order?

By moving to one order, you cut off some of the wines. or do you mean you only want what's offered in the fall?

u can always just order 2 bottles or something.. and a few more in the fall..

IIRC, there is a 4 bottle minimum.

[Kevin Harvey]

I'm sure it's been covered before somewhere, but do people know if the allocations are guaranteed for the entire ordering period? I'm debating whether to push this one into the next credit card cycle or not. I'll probably just order right away when the offer is posted, but was curious as to how Rhys handles theirs.

Craig,
While we hesitate to use the word "guaranteed", we try very hard to make sure that people have at least two weeks to order. On a couple of occasions we have needed to make good on a few bottles that oversold, but our allocation program has been adjusted to be even more conservative now. Given that, people should not have any trouble waiting until Feb 17th to order.

[Kevin Harvey]

Does anyone know what the policy on not ordering during a period is? I fear as prices increase I may have to move to one order per year. is that even possible or would i be cut off for missing every other order?

Brian,
We move people to our waitlist if they do not order over a one year period (two releases). This allows customers to skip a release.

[jbray23]

Kevin,
Do you have a basic idea of allocations, being new to the list I was offered 3 syrah and 3 pinots with the last allocation, can I get a sneak peak as to what I might get...............

[Keith Levenberg]

$100 California/Oregon Pinot is no longer uncommon.

Brian, I'm not sure I agree. We have Marcassin. I believe I payed around $100 for a Rochioli West Side. I really can't think of others.

California Pinot, while on a steep quality ascent in the low to mid alcohol ranges, is (yet) not priced with trophy wines from Napa, Burgundy and Bordeaux. Not even close.

The top wines from producers like Rhys, Copain and Littorai are still at or below $80.

Now that's an interesting observation right there. The most expensive Burgundy is about 10x the price of the most expensive left-bank Bordeaux, but the reverse is true for California pinot vis-a-vis cabernet. I wonder how long that will last.

[Kevin Harvey]

Kevin,
Do you have a basic idea of allocations, being new to the list I was offered 3 syrah and 3 pinots with the last allocation, can I get a sneak peak as to what I might get...............

Jason,
Our basic allocation is 3 btls each of Alpine Pinot and SCMtns Pinot.

[Kevin Lloyd]

$100 California/Oregon Pinot is no longer uncommon.

Brian, I'm not sure I agree. We have Marcassin. I believe I payed around $100 for a Rochioli West Side. I really can't think of others.

California Pinot, while on a steep quality ascent in the low to mid alcohol ranges, is (yet) not priced with trophy wines from Napa, Burgundy and Bordeaux. Not even close.

The top wines from producers like Rhys, Copain and Littorai are still at or below $80.

Aren't the single vineyards from Kistler, Aubert, KB and Peter Michael in the $90+ range?

[K. R. Baker]

any idea what time the offer is going live?

[Jim Karegeannes]

Probably ridiculous, but I keep checking the in box.
Nice message from Chambers Street on a guy named Chris Brockway, apparently making lower alcohol Calif. wines.
No Rhys yet

[Kevin Harvey]

any idea what time the offer is going live?

We are running a little late today. It will be at least 10am before we are live. Updates coming...

[D Jorgenson]

F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5

Just kidding Kevin, no hurry.





F5

[PaulJ]

I'd love to see the web analytics results for the Rhys site over the next hour or so.

[cepotts]

Rhys:

Is it Reese like the Whitherspoon or Rice like the Jerry?

[Andrew L.]

Am I the only one having trouble with this post?

[Jeff Brinkman]

Rhys:

Is it Reese like the Whitherspoon or Rice like the Jerry?

Neither, it's Rhys like the peanut butter cup.

[Truett W e l c h]

Rhys:

Is it Reese like the Whitherspoon or Rice like the Jerry?

Reese.