TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

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TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #1  Postby k s h i n » February 2nd 2012, 10:43am

It was edited.
Last edited by k s h i n on February 5th 2012, 6:58am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #2  Postby B. Buzzini » February 2nd 2012, 10:56am

What a travesty! Blows my mind that this would happen with such wines at an event like that!

Not at all uncommon when we go to restaurants....usually tainted with stale wet cloth when drying. I ALWAYS smell the glass before any wine goes into it...many a time I've requested different glasses.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #3  Postby Matt Latuchie » February 2nd 2012, 11:19am

wow. what a shame!
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #4  Postby Berry Crawford » February 2nd 2012, 12:03pm

brutal
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #5  Postby Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ » February 2nd 2012, 1:25pm

After a few spells of tainted glasses, I've been very careful to smell my glasses prior to pouring anything. Absolutely brutal on the 90 RCs, but an exceptional lineup of wines nonetheless.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #6  Postby k s h i n » February 2nd 2012, 1:37pm

Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ wrote:After a few spells of tainted glasses, I've been very careful to smell my glasses prior to pouring anything. Absolutely brutal on the 90 RCs, but an exceptional lineup of wines nonetheless.


Most of the wines were poured in the backroom.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #7  Postby Michael Lewis » February 2nd 2012, 1:45pm

I think 1990 La Tache and 1990 Romanee Conti are just not very good. Your glasses were fine.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #8  Postby k s h i n » February 2nd 2012, 1:49pm

Michael Lewis wrote:I think 1990 La Tache and 1990 Romanee Conti are just not very good. Your glasses were fine.


Unfortunately the glasses were tainted. BTW, correct bottle of the 90 La Tache is a great wine.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #9  Postby David Walker » February 2nd 2012, 1:53pm

I don't understand why you're being so coy about posting the restaurant. This should never have happened at any of the current 3 Michelin star restaurants in NYC (or any Michelin star establishment, for that matter) . If I were Spectrum, I'd be furious.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #10  Postby B. Buzzini » February 2nd 2012, 2:01pm

Did anyone have clean glasses for the DRC's? What did the Spectrum people say about it?
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #11  Postby BobH » February 2nd 2012, 2:06pm

That is tough. Not nearly a wine as nice, but I remember being at an off-line, and I had a bad glass. Everyone else was saying how lovely the wine was, and thought it was horribly, horribly corked. I was looking at them like they were crazy and vice versa until someone else finally figured out my glass was bad.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #12  Postby David Walker » February 3rd 2012, 9:34pm

Don't know if anyone else was following this thread on the "other" forum but the thread was deleted per Kevin's request after he asked Squires to do so.

Kevin - please explain yourself. You stirred up a flurry of questions. Rovani posted that you didn't mention anything (in a relatively small tasting group) about the flawed glasses. And then the thread is gone What's the story here?
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #13  Postby Lewis Dawson » February 3rd 2012, 11:37pm

David, are you implying that nobody else got tainted glasses? LOL.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #14  Postby Mike de Lange » February 3rd 2012, 11:52pm

David Walker wrote:I don't understand why you're being so coy about posting the restaurant. This should never have happened at any of the current 3 Michelin star restaurants in NYC (or any Michelin star establishment, for that matter) . If I were Spectrum, I'd be furious.


It shouldn't happen at ANY restaurant!!! Bring back the death penalty I say! Oh, wait...
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #15  Postby John Morris » February 3rd 2012, 11:56pm

I attended a large, expensive tasting of 82 Bordeaux at Sotheby's building in New York in the late 90s in a room the reeked of new paint. The Sotheby's people were only vaguely apologetic and made no attempt to move it to a new room.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #16  Postby Tom Blach » February 4th 2012, 2:09am

See Don Cornwell's post about this auction. It seems to me to contain important information.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #17  Postby Brian G r a f s t r o m » February 4th 2012, 3:27am

Tom Blach wrote:See Don Cornwell's post about this auction. It seems to me to contain important information.

Yeah, maybe it wasn 't the glasses that were tainted! [snort.gif] http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61172
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #18  Postby David Walker » February 4th 2012, 6:40am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
Tom Blach wrote:See Don Cornwell's post about this auction. It seems to me to contain important information.

Yeah, maybe it wasn 't the glasses that were tainted! [snort.gif] http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61172


Wow!
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #19  Postby k s h i n » February 4th 2012, 7:10am

David Walker wrote:Don't know if anyone else was following this thread on the "other" forum but the thread was deleted per Kevin's request after he asked Squires to do so.

Kevin - please explain yourself. You stirred up a flurry of questions. Rovani posted that you didn't mention anything (in a relatively small tasting group) about the flawed glasses. And then the thread is gone What's the story here?


David,
I gain nothing by starting a thread like this. I spoke to my better half who reminded me that I was generously hosted by spectrum wine and the matter should have been dealt privately.
Regards,
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #20  Postby Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » February 4th 2012, 7:17am

Tom Blach wrote:See Don Cornwell's post about this auction. It seems to me to contain important information.


Yes, indeed. A link: http://wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtop ... =1&t=61172

I don't buy wines at auction, but.....I'd sure like to know about this if I did.

Maybe the soap came with the bottles....and not from the restaurant -- or the wineries? [stirthepothal.gif]
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #21  Postby k s h i n » February 4th 2012, 7:30am

To all,
I requested to the admin to delete this thread. I was an invited guest to a very generous event and it was my place to start a thread like this. My better half put some sense to me.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #22  Postby Alan C h a n » February 4th 2012, 7:37am

Given the other details that have come out about this auction, I think it may be important for us as a community to consider how promotional events like this play a part in the overall picture of what's going on here.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #23  Postby Nick Gangas » February 4th 2012, 8:16am

I don't see how Kevins experience and the wines being auctioned are related. This is really about the unnamed restaurant.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #24  Postby Alan C h a n » February 4th 2012, 8:36am

Kevin Shin wrote:
The upcoming spectrum auction is pretty impressive with some big names and big formats. It was a fun evening. My sincere gratitude to Spectrum auction for generously hosting the dinner.
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Not Kevin's fault - just an observation on my part that it may behoove us in this community to be alert to the ways that we may be put unwittingly into roles we hadn't realized.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #25  Postby Herwig Janssen » February 4th 2012, 8:53am

Tainted glasses in restaurants happen a lot . But in my experience , it can be resolved by pooring the wine in a non-compromised glass . Did you try this , Kevin ? Or was it too late ?
Because of this problem , I always tell the sommelier to use the same glass for a new bottle , even if it is a different wine ( same color ). For some reason , it is custom to give a new glass with every new bottle served .
And at our wine club , we bring our OWN glasses . I realize this could not be done here , but Kevin's experience is by no means unusual , it happens all the time .
I am not so sure it is detergent . At one of my favorite 3-star restaurants ( Oud-Sluis ) , I encountered the same problem . The sommelier admitted the problem and could not understand how this could happen . They wash all their wine glasses in a special machine with high steam and very hot water , no detergents are involved . But the glass smelded like it came out of the washing machine .
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #26  Postby G. Greenbaum » February 4th 2012, 9:09am

Herwig Janssen wrote: I am not so sure it is detergent . At one of my favorite 3-star restaurants ( Oud-Sluis ) , I encountered the same problem . The sommelier admitted the problem and could not understand how this could happen . They wash all their wine glasses in a special machine with high steam and very hot water , no detergents are involved . But the glass smelded like it came out of the washing machine .


At most restaurants I'm familiar with, the glasses are polished by bus crew. If the cloth napkins they use were used on plates or other dishwashed items, the napkins themselves could be tainted. They typically use the same napkins to polish everything. With my previous employer, I urged them to purchase lint free towels to be used exclusively on our stems. We never had a problem.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #27  Postby Michael Lewis » February 4th 2012, 10:40am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
Tom Blach wrote:See Don Cornwell's post about this auction. It seems to me to contain important information.

Yeah, maybe it wasn 't the glasses that were tainted! [snort.gif] http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61172


Ah ha! So my post above was right after all.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #28  Postby Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » February 4th 2012, 11:55am

Don't discount NYC water and the things in it. Seriously. Maybe too much chlorine that week. It's a long way from the Hudson.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #29  Postby Ken V » February 4th 2012, 11:56am

Kevin Shin wrote:
David Walker wrote:Don't know if anyone else was following this thread on the "other" forum but the thread was deleted per Kevin's request after he asked Squires to do so.

Kevin - please explain yourself. You stirred up a flurry of questions. Rovani posted that you didn't mention anything (in a relatively small tasting group) about the flawed glasses. And then the thread is gone What's the story here?


David,
I gain nothing by starting a thread like this. I spoke to my better half who reminded me that I was generously hosted by spectrum wine and the matter should have been dealt privately.
Regards,

Kevin,

Help me understand this. As you say, you were hosted by Spectrum. I assume the word "generously" means you did not pay for this dinner? On its face, your original post is odd because it would seem that Spectrum is responsible for what is good for you in your post (many excellent wines and a good dinner). You put their name in the title. OTOH, the restaurant would seem to be responsible for your soapy glasses, but you refuse to name them. They were not the ones who were generous to you, I assume.

So I think your wife was partially right that your OP is calling attention to soapy glasses and Spectrum, whereas it wasn't Spectrum's fault. Why not delete Spectrum and name the restaurant?

Of course, the recently posted concerns about a Spectrum wine auction do complicate the story, so I do not believe the mods should delete this thread at this time.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #30  Postby Ken V » February 4th 2012, 11:57am

Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:Don't discount NYC water and the things in it. Seriously. Maybe too much chlorine that week. It's a long way from the Hudson.

I assume you're joking? NYC water is among the best, and it comes from upstate reservoirs, not the Hudson.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #31  Postby dave cuneo » February 4th 2012, 12:53pm

Interesting video on water tunnel #3 in NYC.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=690461n
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #32  Postby k s h i n » February 4th 2012, 12:54pm

Ken V wrote:
Kevin Shin wrote:
David Walker wrote:Don't know if anyone else was following this thread on the "other" forum but the thread was deleted per Kevin's request after he asked Squires to do so.

Kevin - please explain yourself. You stirred up a flurry of questions. Rovani posted that you didn't mention anything (in a relatively small tasting group) about the flawed glasses. And then the thread is gone What's the story here?


David,
I gain nothing by starting a thread like this. I spoke to my better half who reminded me that I was generously hosted by spectrum wine and the matter should have been dealt privately.
Regards,

Kevin,

Help me understand this. As you say, you were hosted by Spectrum. I assume the word "generously" means you did not pay for this dinner? On its face, your original post is odd because it would seem that Spectrum is responsible for what is good for you in your post (many excellent wines and a good dinner). You put their name in the title. OTOH, the restaurant would seem to be responsible for your soapy glasses, but you refuse to name them. They were not the ones who were generous to you, I assume.

So I think your wife was partially right that your OP is calling attention to soapy glasses and Spectrum, whereas it wasn't Spectrum's fault. Why not delete Spectrum and name the restaurant?

Of course, the recently posted concerns about a Spectrum wine auction do complicate the story, so I do not believe the mods should delete this thread at this time.


Ken,
Spectrum generously poured the wines and covered the dinner. My logic, albeit highsight a terrible one, was that the fault lies with the restaurant. I am quite confident that the wines were correct. I didn’t think that it would tarnish the reputation of spectrum. I was wrong. I pmed Todd earlier but so far no response.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #33  Postby Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » February 4th 2012, 3:14pm

Ken V wrote:
Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:Don't discount NYC water and the things in it. Seriously. Maybe too much chlorine that week. It's a long way from the Hudson.

I assume you're joking? NYC water is among the best, and it comes from upstate reservoirs, not the Hudson.


Yes, Ken, joking. When I was in college in Philadelphia, we had a joke: "flush twice; it's a long way to the Delaware or Schuykill. I was trying to imply that the NYC water came from some brackish body....but couldn't think of one quickly..and didn't think it worth the effort. I know the supply is great...in fact, I 've seen the resevoir at Croton...and another , for the first time this fall, near Bedford. Quite a system. Philadelphia City water can taste like a swimming pool. New York's...is ok, though....I'd rather have the stuff they were drinking when the Dutch still owned Manhattan than today's version.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #34  Postby Peter Chiu » February 4th 2012, 8:32pm

Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:Don't discount NYC water and the things in it. Seriously. Maybe too much chlorine that week. It's a long way from the Hudson.


Stuart....I listen to you when you give opinion about wines; and now ... should I[scratch.gif] [pillow-fight.gif]
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #35  Postby Rick Gregory » February 4th 2012, 8:36pm

Kevin Shin wrote:
Ken V wrote:
Kevin Shin wrote:
David Walker wrote:Don't know if anyone else was following this thread on the "other" forum but the thread was deleted per Kevin's request after he asked Squires to do so.

Kevin - please explain yourself. You stirred up a flurry of questions. Rovani posted that you didn't mention anything (in a relatively small tasting group) about the flawed glasses. And then the thread is gone What's the story here?


David,
I gain nothing by starting a thread like this. I spoke to my better half who reminded me that I was generously hosted by spectrum wine and the matter should have been dealt privately.
Regards,

Kevin,

Help me understand this. As you say, you were hosted by Spectrum. I assume the word "generously" means you did not pay for this dinner? On its face, your original post is odd because it would seem that Spectrum is responsible for what is good for you in your post (many excellent wines and a good dinner). You put their name in the title. OTOH, the restaurant would seem to be responsible for your soapy glasses, but you refuse to name them. They were not the ones who were generous to you, I assume.

So I think your wife was partially right that your OP is calling attention to soapy glasses and Spectrum, whereas it wasn't Spectrum's fault. Why not delete Spectrum and name the restaurant?

Of course, the recently posted concerns about a Spectrum wine auction do complicate the story, so I do not believe the mods should delete this thread at this time.


Ken,
Spectrum generously poured the wines and covered the dinner. My logic, albeit highsight a terrible one, was that the fault lies with the restaurant. I am quite confident that the wines were correct. I didn’t think that it would tarnish the reputation of spectrum. I was wrong. I pmed Todd earlier but so far no response.



Kevin - you know you can edit the title of the post yourself, yes? That plus edits in the OP should cover it.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #36  Postby Randy Bowman » February 4th 2012, 9:28pm

A commercial glass washer in any restaurant should not leave chlorine or other smells unless their chemical dispensers are empty, out of adjustment, not cycling and/or polished with a "freshly washed" towel. We've had the problem at a couple restaurants where their glasses have a a heavy chlorine or chemical smell, yet it never happened at our store until the sanitizer ran out. We also run our glasses through twice, which is not efficient in a restaurant setting.

If they are hand washing, well, that's another issue entirely.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #37  Postby Ken V » February 5th 2012, 12:26am

Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:...in fact, I 've seen the resevoir at Croton....

Yeah, I've peed there myself.

Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:....I'd rather have the stuff they were drinking when the Dutch still owned Manhattan than today's version.

I don't think you would. At least not from the Hudson. The Hudson is not a river till you get up here to Troy, so you'd be drinking ocean water.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #38  Postby k s h i n » February 5th 2012, 6:50am

Rick Gregory wrote:
Kevin Shin wrote:
Ken V wrote:
Kevin Shin wrote:
David Walker wrote:Don't know if anyone else was following this thread on the "other" forum but the thread was deleted per Kevin's request after he asked Squires to do so.

Kevin - please explain yourself. You stirred up a flurry of questions. Rovani posted that you didn't mention anything (in a relatively small tasting group) about the flawed glasses. And then the thread is gone What's the story here?


David,
I gain nothing by starting a thread like this. I spoke to my better half who reminded me that I was generously hosted by spectrum wine and the matter should have been dealt privately.
Regards,

Kevin,

Help me understand this. As you say, you were hosted by Spectrum. I assume the word "generously" means you did not pay for this dinner? On its face, your original post is odd because it would seem that Spectrum is responsible for what is good for you in your post (many excellent wines and a good dinner). You put their name in the title. OTOH, the restaurant would seem to be responsible for your soapy glasses, but you refuse to name them. They were not the ones who were generous to you, I assume.

So I think your wife was partially right that your OP is calling attention to soapy glasses and Spectrum, whereas it wasn't Spectrum's fault. Why not delete Spectrum and name the restaurant?

Of course, the recently posted concerns about a Spectrum wine auction do complicate the story, so I do not believe the mods should delete this thread at this time.


Ken,
Spectrum generously poured the wines and covered the dinner. My logic, albeit highsight a terrible one, was that the fault lies with the restaurant. I am quite confident that the wines were correct. I didn’t think that it would tarnish the reputation of spectrum. I was wrong. I pmed Todd earlier but so far no response.



Kevin - you know you can edit the title of the post yourself, yes? That plus edits in the OP should cover it.


Rick,
I have pmed Todd and requested the thread to be deleted. As I stated it was a mistake to post the thread.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #39  Postby D. ZDUNKEWICZ » February 5th 2012, 7:14am

IMO, Kevin's a stand up guy for his actions after his initial post. He should be applauded.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #40  Postby Dave Ball » February 5th 2012, 7:55am

Happened at a tasting we poured at. About 50 attendees, 10 wineries and two wines per winery. Pours included older vintages of Arcadian Pisoni vineyard and other good stuff. I smelled a few glasses moments before it began and detergent aroma was obvious to me and one other person I mentioned it to. It was a charity event and the restaurant had generously agreed to donate everything. What a dilemma.

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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #41  Postby Victor Hong » February 5th 2012, 8:03am

Having met Kevin before, I know that he is very appreciative of generosity. Separately, he also wishes for everyone to enjoy the best about wine, no matter who is being generous. No dilemma at all.
Spectrum should be grateful for his honest, respectful, constructive feedback.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #42  Postby Jay Miller » February 5th 2012, 9:17am

Personally I didn't take your post as a knock on Spectrum, just a general wail on how even high end restaurants can be careless with their glassware.

The news on the possible Kurniawan connection is, of course, another matter entirely.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #43  Postby Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » February 5th 2012, 9:52am

But the glasses are more egregious Jay. Ruining whatever's in the bottles they served.

Wasn't Rudy's thing to use the genuine for tastings...and the other stuff for sale?

Maybe the soap was part of the plan, to deflect the focus from the authenticity of the wine to the soap aromas. Not a bad plan, actually...if you want to crerate a diversion. [training.gif]
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #44  Postby Rick Gregory » February 5th 2012, 1:37pm

Kevin Shin wrote:

Kevin - you know you can edit the title of the post yourself, yes? That plus edits in the OP should cover it.


Rick,
I have pmed Todd and requested the thread to be deleted. As I stated it was a mistake to post the thread.


What I'm saying is that if you're worried that the thread reflects poorly on Spectrum when that wasn't your intent *you* can alter that by altering the thread title and your OP to make it clear that the restaurant was at fault in your eyes. I'm not sure why the thread should be deleted but that's between you and Todd.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #45  Postby Jay Miller » February 5th 2012, 1:54pm

Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:But the glasses are more egregious Jay. Ruining whatever's in the bottles they served.

Wasn't Rudy's thing to use the genuine for tastings...and the other stuff for sale?



Yes, but that was the restaurants fault, not Spectrum's.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #46  Postby k s h i n » February 5th 2012, 2:12pm

I appreciate the kind words. I was lucky enough to start my passion at relatively young age. As I have mentioned before, some of my fellow DCWINOS, Chris Bublitz, Randall Mcfarlane, Tom Wheltle and other old timers, not that they are old, generously shared some great wines. I was also fortunate to be able to afford to experience some of the most sought after wines. I am absolutely certain that the issue was the glasses and the wines were correct. There is nothing to gain but so much to lose by inviting some of the biggest collectors in NYC and the fake wines. Although a stellar line up, it was not more than $25,000 worth of the wines. The wines were clearly what they should have been.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #47  Postby Jay Miller » February 5th 2012, 2:30pm

Kevin Shin wrote:I appreciate the kind words. I was lucky enough to start my passion at relatively young age. As I have mentioned before, some of my fellow DCWINOS, Chris Bublitz, Randall Mcfarlane, Tom Wheltle and other old timers, not that they are old, generously shared some great wines. I was also fortunate to be able to afford to experience some of the most sought after wines. I am absolutely certain that the issue was the glasses and the wines were correct. There is nothing to gain but so much to lose by inviting some of the biggest collectors in NYC and the fake wines. Although a stellar line up, it was not more than $25,000 worth of the wines. The wines were clearly what they should have been.


While I accept that the glasses were the restaurant's fault given that issue how can you possibly vouch for the wines being what they should have been? Surely you'd have no idea either way?
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #48  Postby Lewis Dawson » February 5th 2012, 3:29pm

Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:... Wasn't Rudy's thing to use the genuine for tastings...and the other stuff for sale?

This is the pattern used by Hardy Rodenstock IMO, based on how I read the things in the public record. But I'm not aware of enough evidence about Rudy K and selling fake wines to know one way or the other. Did he have a pattern of offering wines for tasting by potential buyers? I don't know. It does seem he opened a lot of bottles for "the heavy lumber guys", and maybe they were potential customers, or maybe not.

Rudy seemed to me, back in the early days, to be a newbie wine geek who had lots of money from Daddy, and went out-of-control in buying rare high-end wine. Spent many millions at auctions, and also seems to have been buying from private dealers (and/or other sources) both known and unknown. So it is probable he was duped into buying some fake wines, back when he was buying everything in sight.

As for Rudy selling fakes, it would be possible to guess that he felt cheated by the fakes he bought, and just decided to "pass it on" via auction house channels. It would also be possible to guess he wanted to sell some wines, but was not aware that they were fake. This is his claim about the Ponsot CSD in the LA Times piece that Bob Fleming linked above.

Things have been written about Rodenstock being actively involved in the production of fakes. I have read nothing like that about Rudy K.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #49  Postby k s h i n » February 5th 2012, 3:51pm

Jay Miller wrote:
Kevin Shin wrote:I appreciate the kind words. I was lucky enough to start my passion at relatively young age. As I have mentioned before, some of my fellow DCWINOS, Chris Bublitz, Randall Mcfarlane, Tom Wheltle and other old timers, not that they are old, generously shared some great wines. I was also fortunate to be able to afford to experience some of the most sought after wines. I am absolutely certain that the issue was the glasses and the wines were correct. There is nothing to gain but so much to lose by inviting some of the biggest collectors in NYC and the fake wines. Although a stellar line up, it was not more than $25,000 worth of the wines. The wines were clearly what they should have been.


While I accept that the glasses were the restaurant's fault given that issue how can you possibly vouch for the wines being what they should have been? Surely you'd have no idea either way?


Jay,
With tainted glass, it gives sharp metallic note but It doesn’t completely mask the material. In the original program, the 90 Trimbach Clos Ste Hune was included. The bottle was slightly corked but it clearly displayed the great material including minerality and precision. I didn’t taste the wine but just smelling was enough. The 90 La Tache, I am certain that it was a real McCoy, beautiful material, intense and youthful. The best way for me to describe how the taint expresses to me is like having an incredible intense yet subtle dish with a few drops of tobasco, ie very sharp and completely bothersome but I can still taste the brilliance. The 90 RC if someone replaced with the 90 DRC Richebourg, I would have not been able to tell them apart. As I stated before, there was a no reason for Spectrum to serve fake wines.
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Re: TN: Spectrum Wine Auction Dinner NYC - Including DRCs in tainted glasses

Post #50  Postby k s h i n » February 5th 2012, 3:54pm

Lewis Dawson wrote:
Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:... Wasn't Rudy's thing to use the genuine for tastings...and the other stuff for sale?

This is the pattern used by Hardy Rodenstock IMO, based on how I read the things in the public record. But I'm not aware of enough evidence about Rudy K and selling fake wines to know one way or the other. Did he have a pattern of offering wines for tasting by potential buyers? I don't know. It does seem he opened a lot of bottles for "the heavy lumber guys", and maybe they were potential customers, or maybe not.

Rudy seemed to me, back in the early days, to be a newbie wine geek who had lots of money from Daddy, and went out-of-control in buying rare high-end wine. Spent many millions at auctions, and also seems to have been buying from private dealers (and/or other sources) both known and unknown. So it is probable he was duped into buying some fake wines, back when he was buying everything in sight.

As for Rudy selling fakes, it would be possible to guess that he felt cheated by the fakes he bought, and just decided to "pass it on" via auction house channels. It would also be possible to guess he wanted to sell some wines, but was not aware that they were fake. This is his claim about the Ponsot CSD in the LA Times piece that Bob Fleming linked above.

Things have been written about Rodenstock being actively involved in the production of fakes. I have read nothing like that about Rudy K.


Lewis,
You are making a great point. I also pointed this out to some folks in the past. Was he just passing the fakes or at certain point start creating his own cuvees? This is one extremely important and interesting point for me.
Kevin

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