RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

[John Liotta]

Awesome.

[Anthony Hall]

post 1000 in the thread !

[Zachary Ross]

Am I the first to see this?


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/09/nyreg ... feits.html

Just the first to post.

"At a hearing in United States District Court in Los Angeles on Thursday, prosecutors said a search of Mr. Kurniawan’s home turned up materials used in the counterfeiting of wine bottles, according to a person briefed on the proceeding. "

[Todd F r e n c h (Online)]

It would appear that Spectrum got their consignments in the nick of time...

[paul hanna]

I'd still like to see more responsibility taken by Spectrum in all of this, especially after all the concerns were raised early, and they deliberately lied about the real situation. They are equally at fault here, and should really have either withdrawn all the items or cancelled the sale.

Obviously greed wins out here over good business practice, and it simply isn't good enough for them to say "hey, we are just the agents" and try to deny they were also involved in perpetrating what amounts to fraud....

Hopefully their role in this "scam" is also investigated by the authorities....

[Todd F r e n c h (Online)]

I'd still like to see more responsibility taken by Spectrum in all of this, especially after all the concerns were raised early, and they deliberately lied about the real situation. They are equally at fault here, and should really have either withdrawn all the items or cancelled the sale.

Obviously greed wins out here over good business practice, and it simply isn't good enough for them to say "hey, we are just the agents" and try to deny they were also involved in perpetrating what amounts to fraud....

Hopefully their role in this "scam" is also investigated by the authorities....

I'm sure if they were sweating when Don posted here, they are sweating now...

[Todd F r e n c h (Online)]

BTW, I this thread...

[Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡]

It would appear that Spectrum got their consignments in the nick of time...

I hope theyre happy they did. I'll never buy anything from them ever and will advise anyone I know in the market likewise. They did a great disservice to the community and the market by not at least pumping the breaks on this fiasco. Kudos again to mssr. Don whose diligence, effort and expertise was the impetus so rightfully needed.

[WvanGorp]

There is always time for supplemental charges or for others to be indicted.

[Jay Miller (Online)]

Who among us hasn't made that mistake?

And don't get me started on Kim Caldwell and Kim Crawford . . .

I'll admit to BOTH

Ditto.

[Cris Whetstone]

Can we assume that the recent Spectrum auction is part of the evidence for this arrest? It seems rather quick to me. I'm betting their evidence and warrant are based on previous incidents and evidence.

[Chris Sihler]

I'd still like to see more responsibility taken by Spectrum in all of this, especially after all the concerns were raised early, and they deliberately lied about the real situation. They are equally at fault here, and should really have either withdrawn all the items or cancelled the sale.

Obviously greed wins out here over good business practice, and it simply isn't good enough for them to say "hey, we are just the agents" and try to deny they were also involved in perpetrating what amounts to fraud....

Hopefully their role in this "scam" is also investigated by the authorities....

I'm sure if they were sweating when Don posted here, they are sweating now...

My thoughts exactly, they were forewarned, plus they denied the involvement of Rudy, if it turns out that they knew otherwise, they may be party to fraud.

[Brian G r a f s t r o m]

Can we assume that the recent Spectrum auction is part of the evidence for this arrest? .

No, we cannot. Based on what we're being told, this arrest has nothing to do with that auction.

[Anthony Hall]

At a hearing in United States District Court in Los Angeles on Thursday, prosecutors said a search of Mr. Kurniawan’s home turned up materials used in the counterfeiting of wine bottles, according to a person briefed on the proceeding.

Not wishing to defend RK but I have a collection of many empty bottles, some trophies, some kept for sentimental reasons. I wonder what the FBI would make of them ? Will be interested to see what the "materials" turn out to be.

[paul hanna]

Can we assume that the recent Spectrum auction is part of the evidence for this arrest? .

No, we cannot. Based on what we're being told, this arrest has nothing to do with that auction.

I imagine though that the investigation could well spread to them, especially if there is a money trail....

[Cris Whetstone]

At a hearing in United States District Court in Los Angeles on Thursday, prosecutors said a search of Mr. Kurniawan’s home turned up materials used in the counterfeiting of wine bottles, according to a person briefed on the proceeding.

Not wishing to defend RK but I have a collection of many empty bottles, some trophies, some kept for sentimental reasons. I wonder what the FBI would make of them ? Will be interested to see what the "materials" turn out to be.

"Materials used" implies a lot more than just bottles to me. That would indicate some sort of materials for use in counterfeiting labels IMO.

[NickWittman]

This is going to be highly interesting as it develops! Will Rudy seek a deal? Work with authorities? What counterfeit materials were found? To what degree where auction houses fooled or complicit? Any early predictions how it will play out?

[Jeff Leve]

Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI!!!


Great news! Rudy Kurniawan, who for years was active in wine circles as one of the world’s wealthiest, collectors and dealers was arrested by the FBI in Los Angeles. Kurniawan, a resident of Los Angeles was taken into custody on 3 counts of wire fraud and 3 counts of mail fraud charges. The charges were filed in New York. It is expected that the United States attorney in Manhattan, New York, would seek to extradite him to New York to face charges.

Additional Details - www.thewinecellarinsider.com/2012/03/ru ... d-charges/

[Brian G r a f s t r o m]

Can we assume that the recent Spectrum auction is part of the evidence for this arrest? .

No, we cannot. Based on what we're being told, this arrest has nothing to do with that auction.

I imagine though that the investigation could well spread to them, especially if there is a money trail....

I agree. However, that was not the question asked.

[Tom Moore]

35,000,000 worth of wine sold in 2006 alone? Wonder how much of that was fake?
Anybody on these boards buy any wine from Rudy and if so have you drunk it yet?

[Todd F r e n c h (Online)]

Rudy Kurniawan Arrested by FBI!!!


Great news! Rudy Kurniawan, who for years was active in wine circles as one of the world’s wealthiest, collectors and dealers was arrested by the FBI in Los Angeles. Kurniawan, a resident of Los Angeles was taken into custody on 3 counts of wire fraud and 3 counts of mail fraud charges. The charges were filed in New York. It is expected that the United States attorney in Manhattan, New York, would seek to extradite him to New York to face charges.

Additional Details - http://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/201 ... d-charges/

forum/viewtopic.php?p=838679#p838679

And seriously, Jeff, you just show up to share information already discussed in this thread only to link to your own site. I ask in the future that you more carefully post links to your site, trying to sweep traffic from here.

[Peter Kleban]

Am I the first to see this?


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/09/nyreg ... feits.html

No, but you're batting 1000 on this thread!

[Lewis Dawson]

From AP...
Federal prosecutors in New York accused Kurniawan of engaging in "multiple fraudulent schemes" related to his wine business, including trying to sell 84 bottles of counterfeit Domaine Ponsot wine at an auction in 2008, and 78 bottles of bogus Burgundy wine from Domaine de la Romanée-Conti at an auction just last February.

For that second auction, prosecutors said, Kurniawan had an associate pose as the buyer because he had already become a pariah at auction houses. [I'm sure he meant to write "pose as the seller..."]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... cb892130c5

[SteveC]

BTW, I this thread...

+1

THE DON

[Cole Kendall]

$35 million is a huge amount of wine; even at $1000 per bottle that's 35,000 bottles or 3000 cases of wine.

[Cris Whetstone]

From AP...
Federal prosecutors in New York accused Kurniawan of engaging in "multiple fraudulent schemes" related to his wine business, including trying to sell 84 bottles of counterfeit Domaine Ponsot wine at an auction in 2008, and 78 bottles of bogus Burgundy wine from Domaine de la Romanée-Conti at an auction just last February.

For that second auction, prosecutors said, Kurniawan had an associate pose as the buyer because he had already become a pariah at auction houses. [I'm sure he meant to write "pose as the seller..."]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... cb892130c5

Nice. I'm sure he can't say much on the subject but I hope the prosecution has contacted Don about his evidence.

[Peter Muto]

Shit snacks! I've been a bystander and read through the whole thread but not posted as I don't play in this league at all and thus have no horse in the race, but wow, I never thought criminal charges would be laid! Talk about rich people problems! [wink.gif]

[Lewis Dawson]

Additional nugget from that AP article... "Rudy Kurniawan, 35, of Arcadia, Calif., was arrested in Los Angeles, where he has lived in luxury for years despite a longstanding deportation order expelling him from the country, federal prosecutors said."

I'll bet Rudy would be ready to obey the deportation order right about now. Had anyone known about this order? And why it existed?

[John Morris]

Additional nugget from that AP article... "Rudy Kurniawan, 35, of Arcadia, Calif., was arrested in Los Angeles, where he has lived in luxury for years despite a longstanding deportation order expelling him from the country, federal prosecutors said."

I'll bet Rudy would be ready to obey the deportation order right about now. Had anyone known about this order? And why it existed?

So Homeland Security didn't notice that this subject of a deportation order was granting interviews to the FT and was discussed all over the wine web? Very reassuring!

[Dave Butner]

Whoa, the hits just keep on coming in this story. Amazing.

[WvanGorp]

Slightly more in an updated NYT article:

http://nyti.ms/xbwQvH

[Keith Levenberg]

Additional nugget from that AP article... "Rudy Kurniawan, 35, of Arcadia, Calif., was arrested in Los Angeles, where he has lived in luxury for years despite a longstanding deportation order expelling him from the country, federal prosecutors said."

I'll bet Rudy would be ready to obey the deportation order right about now. Had anyone known about this order? And why it existed?

So Homeland Security didn't notice that this subject of a deportation order was granting interviews to the FT and was discussed all over the wine web? Very reassuring!

John, the correct phrase is "undocumented wine collector."

[Dave Butner]

I'm really curious to hear what Big Boy has to say about this.

[Charlie Fu]

Can we assume that the recent Spectrum auction is part of the evidence for this arrest? .

No, we cannot. Based on what we're being told, this arrest has nothing to do with that auction.

What Brian said. The feds don't move that quick ;)

[Matt Neel]

At a hearing in United States District Court in Los Angeles on Thursday, prosecutors said a search of Mr. Kurniawan’s home turned up materials used in the counterfeiting of wine bottles, according to a person briefed on the proceeding.

Wow. I always thought maybe he naively bought fake wines because he didn't know better than then tied to dump them. But this is a different level.

This is what I reacted to most strongly, too, Berry. Potentially quite damning, but what would it be? An exacto knife, capsules, old labels, old bottles, corks...?