RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4236  Postby scott c » November 7th 2012, 9:14am

Keith Levenberg wrote:Hey look, it's a copy of The Drops of God sitting next to those four Jayer bottles.


That's awesome. I bet he could have gotten some good ideas from the "New World" book, of wines that could potentially fool someone into thinking they were from the old world.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4237  Postby Keith Levenberg » November 7th 2012, 9:21am

Steinberger has a new-ish Rudy post on his blog (10/25) for anyone who missed it.
http://winediarist.com/catch-him-if-you-can/
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Post #4238  Postby Dan Collins » November 7th 2012, 10:11am

Thanks, Don. I think the photos provide a good window into Kurniawan's chaotic state of mind. The aluminum covering the kitchen window is an interesting touch. Did Rudy think someone might manage to peek through the kitchen blinds, or that the aluminum would block electronic snooping devices? Probably both. I suspect that Rudy continued to think he was smarter than everybody else even as he was carted away by the FBI ....
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Post #4239  Postby Bruce Leiser_owitz » November 7th 2012, 10:19am

John Morris wrote:It's very disillusioning to see that nothing was temperature controlled. But at least he blacked out the kitchen window so they wines wouldn't get direct sunlight.


John--I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. Do you really feel the temperature control issue is the critical one here? [snort.gif]

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4240  Postby c fu » November 7th 2012, 10:21am

Carlos Delpin wrote:Rudy's Mom should be ashamed at the mess his "millionaire" son lived in.

actually, I was gonna say "looks just like an old chinese person's house" :D
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Post #4241  Postby c fu » November 7th 2012, 10:22am

Dan Collins wrote:Thanks, Don. I think the photos provide a good window into Kurniawan's chaotic state of mind. The aluminum covering the kitchen window is an interesting touch. Did Rudy think someone might manage to peek through the kitchen blinds, or that the aluminum would block electronic snooping devices? Probably both. I suspect that Rudy continued to think he was smarter than everybody else even as he was carted away by the FBI ....

nah just chinese. Wanted to keep out the sun.
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Post #4242  Postby Dan Collins » November 7th 2012, 10:38am

Bruce Leiserowitz wrote:
John Morris wrote:It's very disillusioning to see that nothing was temperature controlled. But at least he blacked out the kitchen window so they wines wouldn't get direct sunlight.


John--I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. Do you really feel the temperature control issue is the critical one here? [snort.gif]

Bruce

I think John was being ironic. You can't help but laugh at the same time you shake your head at Rudy's outrageous home counterfeiting factory.
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Post #4243  Postby John Morris » November 7th 2012, 10:54am

Dan - You guessed right.
"I have some sympathy for these people as I was once caught in a similar situation after using the wrong shampoo on a client's raccoon." -- Craig Gleason

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Post #4244  Postby Brad Kane » November 7th 2012, 10:59am

John Morris wrote:Dan - You guessed right.


I was waiting for you to offer Bruce shares in a bridge, John. rolleyes
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Post #4245  Postby John Morris » November 7th 2012, 11:00am

He's clearly a mark.
"I have some sympathy for these people as I was once caught in a similar situation after using the wrong shampoo on a client's raccoon." -- Craig Gleason

"There is not an infinite linear progression of betterness associated with rising alcohol intake. There is an obvious asymptote, followed by a decline in betterness...." -- Anton Dotson
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Post #4246  Postby Bruce Leiser_owitz » November 7th 2012, 11:06am

John Morris wrote:Dan - You guessed right.


Well, I assumed you probably were being sarcastic, but you know what they say about making assumptions. neener

Anyhoooooo.....the label-less bottles on the treadmill are so amazingly symbolic..........

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4247  Postby Peter Chiu » November 7th 2012, 11:22am

Charlie Fu wrote:
Carlos Delpin wrote:Rudy's Mom should be ashamed at the mess his "millionaire" son lived in.

actually, I was gonna say "looks just like an old chinese person's house" :D



Based on my own personal experience I agree with what Charlie said.... [cheers.gif]

My friends often laugh when I told them that I did not remember where I put my wines ( and could not find them ). [scratch.gif]
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Post #4248  Postby Erica Landin » November 7th 2012, 12:36pm

What a great thread! I made it through 40 pages until I realized half a work-day had gone by and I really should stop. I'll be writing on this for a high-end Swedish magazine (akin to Monocle) and don't worry - I definitely know where the research came from. Was actually sitting with a respected Decanter writer when Don's original detailed post broke. Glad to be able to follow it up in a non-wine magazine as well, and with room for some depth.

Good job to all of you! Don, how may I get a hold of you for an interview?
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Post #4249  Postby andy velebil » November 7th 2012, 12:55pm

Anyone read the reasons AMC returned bottles to him....included wrong color wax on some DRC's.
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Post #4250  Postby Dan Collins » November 7th 2012, 12:57pm

Erica Landin wrote:What a great thread! I made it through 40 pages until I realized half a work-day had gone by and I really should stop. I'll be writing on this for a high-end Swedish magazine (akin to Monocle) and don't worry - I definitely know where the research came from. Was actually sitting with a respected Decanter writer when Don's original detailed post broke. Glad to be able to follow it up in a non-wine magazine as well, and with room for some depth.

Good job to all of you! Don, how may I get a hold of you for an interview?


Welcome, Erica. Please continue to contribute.
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Post #4251  Postby Erica Landin » November 7th 2012, 1:07pm

I hope I HAVE something to contribute to this thread - I feel most of the story has already been unearthed by Don and the group here, and chronicled very well in Vanity Fair and New York Magazine! If I find any news, I will of course share.

However, if anyone needs tips on the other end of the scale from 1947 DRC (meaning recent vintages of nice small grower wines) from places like South Africa or Champagne, do feel free to send me a message.
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Post #4252  Postby Don Cornwell » November 7th 2012, 2:47pm

andy velebil wrote:Anyone read the reasons AMC returned bottles to him....included wrong color wax on some DRC's.

Andy:

I wondered whether the reasons were provided by Acker or the person(s) who originally purchased the bottles and either returned them or refused to accept delivery. I suspect that it is the latter.
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Post #4253  Postby andy velebil » November 7th 2012, 5:29pm

In this listed pic there is on open bottle of Heintz on the counter. I guess Cali Cab is every bit as good as Bordeaux when you switch bottles [stirthepothal.gif]
http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s38 ... eclExI.jpg

This one has Ridge Monte Bello (can't read vintage), (possibly 1974) Charles Krug, Brewer Clifton, and Aubert among others.
http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s38 ... eclExM.jpg
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Post #4254  Postby andy velebil » November 7th 2012, 5:32pm

Don Cornwell wrote:
andy velebil wrote:Anyone read the reasons AMC returned bottles to him....included wrong color wax on some DRC's.

Andy:

I wondered whether the reasons were provided by Acker or the person(s) who originally purchased the bottles and either returned them or refused to accept delivery. I suspect that it is the latter.

I wondered the same when I saw it. I'm sure in time we'll know if those were pre or post auction returns.
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Post #4255  Postby John Morris » November 7th 2012, 6:10pm

andy velebil wrote:
This one has Ridge Monte Bello (can't read vintage), (possibly 1974) Charles Krug, Brewer Clifton, and Aubert among others.
http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s38 ... eclExM.jpg


Plus a 2007 Guigal Cotes du Rhone! What do you suppose that was repackaged as? Beaucastel?
"I have some sympathy for these people as I was once caught in a similar situation after using the wrong shampoo on a client's raccoon." -- Craig Gleason

"There is not an infinite linear progression of betterness associated with rising alcohol intake. There is an obvious asymptote, followed by a decline in betterness...." -- Anton Dotson
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Post #4256  Postby SteveG » November 7th 2012, 7:15pm

John Morris wrote:
andy velebil wrote:
This one has Ridge Monte Bello (can't read vintage), (possibly 1974) Charles Krug, Brewer Clifton, and Aubert among others.
http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s38 ... eclExM.jpg


Plus a 2007 Guigal Cotes du Rhone! What do you suppose that was repackaged as? Beaucastel?


Isn't red Rhone traditionally used to improve Burgundy?
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Post #4257  Postby SteveG » November 7th 2012, 7:16pm

...I am glad to note that Rudy doesn't waste any money on Vacuvin or such trifles
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Post #4258  Postby P. ONeill » November 7th 2012, 8:27pm

John Morris wrote:
andy velebil wrote:
This one has Ridge Monte Bello (can't read vintage), (possibly 1974) Charles Krug, Brewer Clifton, and Aubert among others.
http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s38 ... eclExM.jpg


Plus a 2007 Guigal Cotes du Rhone! What do you suppose that was repackaged as? Beaucastel?


The thing that caught my eye was the Joel Gott. And not in a good way. I guess it gives a certain "freshness" to older wines….. pileon
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Post #4259  Postby Keith Levenberg » November 7th 2012, 8:39pm

Well, score one for Robert Parker. Rudy clearly wasn't counterfeiting Brewer-Clifton, so he must have been opening the stuff to funnel into DRC bottles. I guess Parker isn't the only one who can't tell the difference.
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Post #4260  Postby Bruce Leiser_owitz » November 7th 2012, 9:11pm

Keith Levenberg wrote:Well, score one for Robert Parker. Rudy clearly wasn't counterfeiting Brewer-Clifton, so he must have been opening the stuff to funnel into DRC bottles. I guess Parker isn't the only one who can't tell the difference.


Brewer-Clifton isn't "Burgundian?" Keith, don't you know how to use the Spoiler Alert function? [snort.gif]

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Post #4261  Postby P. ONeill » November 7th 2012, 9:14pm

Brewer Clifton + Guigal Cotes du Rhone = Marcassin PN?
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Post #4262  Postby Siun o'Connell » November 7th 2012, 10:32pm

It's all so tawdry ... one wants a bit of glamour in the fraudster's operation but we just get oh so mundane townhouse with treadmill decor.
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Post #4263  Postby billnanson » November 8th 2012, 3:20am

Siun o'Connell wrote:It's all so tawdry ... one wants a bit of glamour in the fraudster's operation but we just get oh so mundane townhouse with treadmill decor.

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Post #4264  Postby Matthew Brown » November 8th 2012, 5:14am

Siun o'Connell wrote:It's all so tawdry ... one wants a bit of glamour in the fraudster's operation but we just get oh so mundane townhouse with treadmill decor.


'Mondovino' meets 'Boogie Nights'?
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Post #4265  Postby D Jorgenson » November 8th 2012, 7:29am

Don had an inside source the whole time! Well played...

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Post #4266  Postby Andrew Hall » November 8th 2012, 7:46am

Is there a way to get get access to the full hi-res pics or other evidence pics?

I ask in particular because a question arose about an image of Jayer Richebourg on CT. There look to be similarities with the irregularities of that image and what I can see with the Jayer Richebourg set up for photography. I can't see the details close enough to be sure though.

It is not a big deal. I am just really curious.

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Post #4267  Postby Mark C » November 8th 2012, 8:35am

D Jorgenson wrote:Don had an inside source the whole time! Well played...

Image

Image


Is that green bananas between 7 and 8 o’clock in the circled area? That would make it a lock.
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Post #4268  Postby Matt Snow » November 8th 2012, 9:40am

I'm just catching up with this motion to suppress stuff. Don, you may be right that the government will successfully oppose, but you have to ask yourself, why in the world didn't the agents get their search warrant before showing up to arrest Rudy? Hard to believe they had probable cause to arrest an unemployed guy on charges of extensive fraud and no probable cause to search his home for evidence of the fraud. Particularly given the evidence you cite from the original complaint that there had been shipments of empty bottles and blank labels to the house. Seems to me they'd have saved themselves a lot of trouble and a likely appeal if they had just played it by the book.

-- Matt

Don Cornwell wrote:Rudy Kurniawan has moved to suppress the evidence resulting from the search of his townhome on the grounds that the FBI’s “protective sweep” of his townhome at the time of his arrest (at about 6:00 a.m. on March 8, 2012) was in fact an illegal warrantless search. Kurniawan argues that the evidence which the FBI agents claimed to have discovered “in plain view” during that sweep was beyond the limited scope of a lawful “protective sweep” of a residence at the time of arrest permitted under a 1990 Supreme Court case entitled Maryland v. Buie. Kurniawan’s motion was filed on October 12. The government’s response has not yet been filed and it is due to be filed on or before October 26.

While my practice is limited to civil litigation rather than criminal cases, the motion to suppress in my opinion is unlikely to succeed.

* * * * *

A review of the agents' lengthy affidavit in support of the request for the search warrant demonstrates that it was based in large measure on the evidence described in the complaint which had been filed under seal two days before Rudy Kurniawan’s arrest, including evidence of a number of shipments of empty labeled wine bottles to the Naomi address and evidence of exten[s]ive purchases of the materials needed to produce counterfeit wines all shipped to that address.
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Post #4269  Postby Ken V » November 8th 2012, 9:50am

andy velebil wrote:In this listed pic there is on open bottle of Heintz on the counter. I guess Cali Cab is every bit as good as Bordeaux when you switch bottles [stirthepothal.gif]

Heintz? You mean a squirt of ketchup makes a Cali Cab taste like a Bordeaux or the other way around? [wink.gif]
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Post #4270  Postby Ken Rudman » November 8th 2012, 10:30am

Ken V wrote:
andy velebil wrote:In this listed pic there is on open bottle of Heintz on the counter. I guess Cali Cab is every bit as good as Bordeaux when you switch bottles [stirthepothal.gif]

Heintz? You mean a squirt of ketchup makes a Cali Cab taste like a Bordeaux or the other way around? [wink.gif]


I believe they use 57 Varietals...
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Post #4271  Postby Dan Collins » November 8th 2012, 12:17pm

Siun o'Connell wrote:It's all so tawdry ... one wants a bit of glamour in the fraudster's operation but we just get oh so mundane townhouse with treadmill decor.


True that. The photo mentioned by Andy Velebil (http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s38 ... eclExI.jpg) brings to mind a meth lab even though the room is filled with wine bottles. I guess we can credit Rudy with doing his bit to demystify fine wine. No crystal decanters or arch sommeliers in this kitchen!

Also, kudos to D Jorgenson for spotting the chimpanzee clutching a wine glass -- another excellent example of Kurniawan's downscale genius.
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Post #4272  Postby Freek S u i j v e r » November 8th 2012, 12:26pm

Dan Collins wrote:Also, kudos to D Jorgenson for spotting the chimpanzee clutching a wine glass -- another excellent example of Kurniawan's downscale genius.


cough.... cough..... Photoshop!
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Post #4273  Postby JKim » November 8th 2012, 12:30pm

[ResizeableImage=][/ResizeableImage]
Freek S u i j v e r wrote:
Dan Collins wrote:Also, kudos to D Jorgenson for spotting the chimpanzee clutching a wine glass -- another excellent example of Kurniawan's downscale genius.


cough.... cough..... Photoshop!

Lol, yeah obviously PS'ed, but still funny.
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Post #4274  Postby Dan Collins » November 8th 2012, 12:59pm

Freek S u i j v e r wrote:
Dan Collins wrote:Also, kudos to D Jorgenson for spotting the chimpanzee clutching a wine glass -- another excellent example of Kurniawan's downscale genius.


cough.... cough..... Photoshop!


Guilty as charged ....
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Post #4275  Postby Mark C » November 8th 2012, 1:05pm

So, the monkey moved from your avatar to Rudy’s place? Clever little simian, the bananas must be better there!
[cheers.gif]

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Don Cornwell
 
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4276  Postby Don Cornwell » November 8th 2012, 2:29pm

Matt Snow wrote:I'm just catching up with this motion to suppress stuff. Don, you may be right that the government will successfully oppose, but you have to ask yourself, why in the world didn't the agents get their search warrant before showing up to arrest Rudy? Hard to believe they had probable cause to arrest an unemployed guy on charges of extensive fraud and no probable cause to search his home for evidence of the fraud. Particularly given the evidence you cite from the original complaint that there had been shipments of empty bottles and blank labels to the house. Seems to me they'd have saved themselves a lot of trouble and a likely appeal if they had just played it by the book.

-- Matt

Matt:

I think that's a legitimate question. The government points out in its opposition that it already had evidence that Rudy had empty labeled bottles and paper and counterfeiting supplies shipped directly to his house. However, according to the original complaint, the shipments the government had evidence of took place between 2004 and 2007. Since that evidence was relatively remote in time, I strongly suspect that the government was hoping it would find more current evidence "in plain sight" at the time of Rudy's arrest -- as it did. In fact, Rudy's lawyers make that point in their motion when they refer to the government's "plan" for the arrest, which included a sweep and a reference to observing whatever was in plain sight during that sweep.
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John Morris
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4277  Postby John Morris » November 8th 2012, 2:33pm

At least there shouldn't be any argument about what was in plain view. It wasn't like they had to look in the closets or the attic.
"I have some sympathy for these people as I was once caught in a similar situation after using the wrong shampoo on a client's raccoon." -- Craig Gleason

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4278  Postby Paul Jaouen » November 8th 2012, 3:07pm

Best,
Paul Jaouen
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Bruce Leiser_owitz
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4279  Postby Bruce Leiser_owitz » November 8th 2012, 4:24pm



"INSIDE EDITION blows the cork off counterfeit wines." Is that legal? [snort.gif]

Bruce
"Bruce you are correct."--Andrew Kaufman, 3/24/13.
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Don Cornwell
 
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4280  Postby Don Cornwell » November 8th 2012, 4:43pm


I've known about this show being made for several months but don't have current details. I saw Maureen on the promo on the website, but its hard to tell from our local TV schedule when the show is on. In Los Angeles we have both the CBS network station and a CBS-owned affiilate station that regularly runs Inside Edition reruns at least once per day.

Does anyone know exactly which day and the time at which the show in question is running?
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Paul Jaouen
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4281  Postby Paul Jaouen » November 8th 2012, 4:54pm

Don, I heard tomorrow from Maureen and one other person.
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Berry Crawford
 
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4282  Postby Berry Crawford » November 8th 2012, 5:28pm

John Morris wrote:At least there shouldn't be any argument about what was in plain view. It wasn't like they had to look in the closets or the attic.


I dont think there was much counterfit evidence in plain view from what I see. That could be any major wine-geeks house. The counterfitting room was behind a locked door.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4283  Postby andy velebil » November 8th 2012, 5:57pm

Don Cornwell wrote:
Matt Snow wrote:I'm just catching up with this motion to suppress stuff. Don, you may be right that the government will successfully oppose, but you have to ask yourself, why in the world didn't the agents get their search warrant before showing up to arrest Rudy? Hard to believe they had probable cause to arrest an unemployed guy on charges of extensive fraud and no probable cause to search his home for evidence of the fraud. Particularly given the evidence you cite from the original complaint that there had been shipments of empty bottles and blank labels to the house. Seems to me they'd have saved themselves a lot of trouble and a likely appeal if they had just played it by the book.

-- Matt

Matt:

I think that's a legitimate question. The government points out in its opposition that it already had evidence that Rudy had empty labeled bottles and paper and counterfeiting supplies shipped directly to his house. However, according to the original complaint, the shipments the government had evidence of took place between 2004 and 2007. Since that evidence was relatively remote in time, I strongly suspect that the government was hoping it would find more current evidence "in plain sight" at the time of Rudy's arrest -- as it did. In fact, Rudy's lawyers make that point in their motion when they refer to the government's "plan" for the arrest, which included a sweep and a reference to observing whatever was in plain sight during that sweep.

From a law enforcement side there could be a number of reasons why they did it this way.

As Don mentioned they might not had enough "fresh" evidence to secure a search warrant related to counterfeiting wine. So they took their chance with him being a typical complacent bad guy who leaves damning evidence out in the open.

They may have been afraid Rudy was tipped off.

Along with that one, they may have been afraid he would destroy all the evidence so the best plan is to go, arrest/detain, secure location, then get a warrant.

They may have learned/heard that Rudy was going to leave the country, state, or area.

They may have been pressured by a supervisor to move the case along and find some solid evidence so took their chances with the above "plain sight" plan.

These are just a few of the possible reasons they may have done it the way they did. And for those that think it's weird for the Fed's to do it the way they did, it's actually a pretty normal/regular way of doing police work.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4284  Postby SteveC » November 8th 2012, 6:58pm

Berry Crawford wrote:
John Morris wrote:At least there shouldn't be any argument about what was in plain view. It wasn't like they had to look in the closets or the attic.


I dont think there was much counterfit evidence in plain view from what I see. That could be any major wine-geeks house. The counterfitting room was behind a locked door.


I think Berry needs an intervention [snort.gif] [snort.gif] neener [snort.gif]
Ste ve C o yl e
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Berry Crawford
 
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN SPECTRUM / VANQUISH WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #4285  Postby Berry Crawford » November 8th 2012, 7:53pm

SteveC wrote:I think Berry needs an intervention


Buying a new house has been the intervention. Ive had to realign some priorities.

But seriously, piles of wine boxes insn't proof of anything IMO.

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