2004 Red Burgundy and Ladybugs

[dcornutt]

It makes sense to review all sides given the uncertainty as to cause. I am making a financial bet on 2011 so I hope this won’t be an issue.

[k_s_h_i_n]

@Robert Panzer

The heat stress rationale would indeed justify why this phenomenon hasn’t happened before, as the heat of '03 was biblically intense, the greatest in 100 years (correct me if I’m wrong). Whereas the ladybug idea doesn’t make historical sense, as there have always been ladybugs. Why ALL OF A SUDDEN a bug problem?? Occam’s razor comes to mind…

Robert,
The nose expression, ie GM, is different from the unripe cab franc nose of Loire.

[k_s_h_i_n]

@Robert Panzer

I’m with you, Berry. I’m not into all or nothing rationales in general. I suppose i’m simply trying to introduce some socratic questioning of what seems at times like hysterics, especially when the ghost of this monster is being whispered about the '11s, which strongly clashes with my direct experience.

Robert,
No one was able to tell the flaw in 04 Burg from barrel. Most critics including Allen have not commented on this issue.

The experiment is quite simple. Crush a couple dead ladybugs, finding them might be a major challenge, and mix with 4 to 8 oz of red burg. Get a cheap red from SA or Loire and compare.

[Wes_Barton]

@Robert Panzer

Olivier Lamy was telling me how there are signs in the plant of what it is planning to bud the FOLLOWING spring, and that the '13s have a fuller yield potential already programmed into them.

The buds are formed the previous year, with the primary fruit clusters and initial leaves. Those primary clusters are what get harvested. (Secondary clusters develop in the same year, in waves, with the first ones about 3 weeks behind the primary in ripening and are usually not harvested.) Of course bud formation is just one plant reaction cued on by the season in preparation for the next.

Here in CA we just saw how the vines reacted to the sparse '11 vintage by forming a heavy set for '12 accompanied by the “energy” to fully develop flavors of a much larger than normal crop. (Of course there was a lot of variation, so some areas did have normal sized crops.)

I suspect both theories are factors.

[Ian_Fitzsimmons]

It’s an interesting conjecture. What would explain GM resurgence in 2011, if Bill is right in discerning them?

[Berry_Crawford]

@Ian Fitzsimmons

What would explain GM resurgence in 2011, if Bill is right in discerning them?

Bill noticed a lot of lady bugs during the 2011 harvest and crush and reported it with a few nasty pictures. He then noticed some green in a number of 2011s and has warned that they could be similar to the green in 2004. If he is right then the green will likely be much worse in 2011 than 2004 because in the former year the green quality didn’t really manifest until after the wines were bottled and shipped.

FWIW, Ray walker mentioned that he saw many more lady bugs in 2010 than 2011 and no one has complained of green in 2010.

[Robert_Panzer]

Then there is also the explanation that Bill is off base on the 11s.
Have you heard ANYONE else mention it? Not I.

[Robert_Panzer]

Guilty until proven innocent w an invisible unsensible threat?

[Ian_Fitzsimmons]

This is fair; Bill himself has counseled suspending judgement until, I think, six months after bottling. I should probably be referring thread readers to his report, rather than paraphrasing him, as I would hate to misrepresent his position, which he states with some precision.

By the way, one board member, at least, has discerned green in some 2004 Alsace Riesling, fwiw.

[Tom_Blach]

We drank the Courcel 2004 Bourgogne at lunch today. Always excellent, this bottle was sensationally good.

[A_Gillette]

@Robert Panzer

Then there is also the explanation that Bill is off base on the 11s.
Have you heard ANYONE else mention it? Not I.

I’m not sure how he could be “off base” at this point. He is simply reporting his experiences and fully recognizes the possibility of no ladybug taint. Here are his exact words after tasting 59 wines from Gevrey:

“As far as the notes are concerned, I was was simply amazed how many, to my level of perception, were showing a pyrazine note so early in their elevage. I’m convinced that the 2004s didn’t show it to this extent so early in their elevage, this could be a terrible thing, or it could be something ‘a bit different’ and be gone in 12 months – when you will all be able to point me out and say ‘what a plonker’.”

I think Bill is doing a pretty incredible service and he is doing it for free. He isn’t selling anything. He is simply informing people so that they can make a decision on whether to spend their hard-earned dollars on this vintage. As for no one else mentioning it, that is totally consistent with 2004. No one said (and perhaps noticed) anything until it was too late.

As for me, there is no chance that I’m buying a single 2011 until long after they’ve been in the bottle. If they turn out to be great wines, I will be thrilled and I will buy some. But short of a merchant offering to refund my purchase price in the event that the wines are dramatically flawed from green meanies, I won’t be buying.
A

[Mike_During]

Whatever the reason the level of pyrazines seems to be the reason for GM. Kevin’s experiment seems to be extreme, 2 ladybugs in 4oz/100ml I expect has no relation to the number per 4oz of grapes in 2004.
To me it is much more logical that it is vintage related and one would assume that the vines went into shock after 2003 causing a naturally high level of pyrazines in 04, conditions attractive to ladybugs, thus the population explosion. In vintages where the natural levels of pyrazines are low it would seem there are less ladybugs, certainly at vintage. A number of vintages have been saved by long autumns, like 2010, so it is plausible that there were high levels of bugs leading up to vintage and yet the vintage had no taint, perhaps the ladybugs flew away?

[Paul_H_Galli]

Whether the cause of the ashen GM’s are bugs or a previous hot vintage, the only fact that is important is that the vintage is the worst in the 1995-2010 time frame.
Bottom line, with all the Red Burgundy still on the market, it is folly to buy any wines from this poor vintage.

TTT

[Mike_During]

@Paul H Galli

Whether the cause of the ashen GM’s are bugs or a previous hot vintage, the only fact that is important is that the vintage is the worst in the 1995-2010 time frame.
Bottom line, with all the Red Burgundy still on the market, it is folly to buy any wines from this poor vintage.

TTT

I prefer the 04’s to the 97’s.

[Nick_Ryan]

@Robert Panzer

Then there is also the explanation that Bill is off base on the 11s.
Have you heard ANYONE else mention it? Not I.

How sensitive were you to the 2004 taint?

[Robert_Panzer]

I’m quite sensitive to VA, TCA, and pyrazines. I didnt taste the 04s out of barrel so I can’t speak to that. But I’ve had many 04s that ring the pyrazine alarm bell. I’ve also had 04s that didn’t.

[Howard_Cooper]

@dcornutt

Here might be an explanation as to the recent origin of the problem if it is due to ladybugs. The Asian bug wasn’t introduced until the early 1990’s in France. They were fighting aphids. All of the explosion in biodynamic farming etc. It appears that this variety of bug eats everything including the innocuous European variety. It also has a very powerful defense system of pyrazines.

“Introduction of Asian Ladybugs Into Europe Serious Mistake, Experts Say”

“July 30, 2012 — In retrospect, introducing the Asian ladybird into Europe was a serious mistake. The insect was introduced some twenty years ago in a conscious attempt to combat aphids. But research carried out at Wageningen UR (University & Research centre) into the invasion of this foreign insect has shown that the disadvantages far outweigh this single advantage. The Asian species is displacing the native European ladybird and has become a pest that can contaminate homes and spoil the taste of wine.”

Introduction of Asian ladybugs into Europe serious mistake, experts say -- ScienceDaily

I hope that the explanation is that 2004 came after 2003. I hope that the Asian bug does not become our generation’s phylloxera. And, unlike phylloxera, this seems to have been done intentionally.

[Scott_Brunson]

Then we’ll need bigger bugs to combat these bugs
(and so forth)

[J_Ashourian]

@Kevin Shin

@Robert Panzer

I’m with you, Berry. I’m not into all or nothing rationales in general. I suppose i’m simply trying to introduce some socratic questioning of what seems at times like hysterics, especially when the ghost of this monster is being whispered about the '11s, which strongly clashes with my direct experience.

Robert,
No one was able to tell the flaw in 04 Burg from barrel. Most critics including Allen have not commented on this issue.

The experiment is quite simple. Crush a couple dead ladybugs, finding them might be a major challenge, and mix with 4 to 8 oz of red burg. Get a cheap red from SA or Loire and compare.

Im with Kevin. Lets get to the bottom of this.

[k_s_h_i_n]

@Mike During

Whatever the reason the level of pyrazines seems to be the reason for GM. Kevin’s experiment seems to be extreme, 2 ladybugs in 4oz/100ml I expect has no relation to the number per 4oz of grapes in 2004.
To me it is much more logical that it is vintage related and one would assume that the vines went into shock after 2003 causing a naturally high level of pyrazines in 04, conditions attractive to ladybugs, thus the population explosion. In vintages where the natural levels of pyrazines are low it would seem there are less ladybugs, certainly at vintage. A number of vintages have been saved by long autumns, like 2010, so it is plausible that there were high levels of bugs leading up to vintage and yet the vintage had no taint, perhaps the ladybugs flew away?

Mike,
The bugs were bone dry so no additional nasty liquid stuffs and after 18 hours GM was the dominating note. GM in the 04 Burgundy is different than the unripe fruit expression in Loire cab franc which I enjoy and the nose was identical to GM in 2004.

It appears as most folks are not so bothered by GM so it only matters to a few.

P.S. After 72 hours, VA dominates and no noticeable VA and also no oxidative note.