Because as you said yourself, “some weren’t bothered by the smoke”. It’s sort of like '04 Burgundy. I’m relatively insensitive to the GM and therefore have picked up a few bottles here and there to open for myself or people with similar levels of sensitivity. For people less sensitive to smoke this is a great buy. So it seems like a good move to me.
Of course my view may be colored by the fact that I like many Navarro wines (though not all of them) and that my one visit to their tasting room was probably the most fun and welcoming of any I’ve ever been to. So I’m always inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I may have come across a little strong. I originally was in the same camp as you ( how bad could the smoke be) After popping my first Anthill I was pretty taken back by the actual levels of smoke( not so much on the nose but the palate) see Dave’s post above. Seeing that others didn’t notice the smoke lead me to believe there was some bottle variation, but was lambasted over on ebob at the time- some people are just more sensitive to it than others is what I was being told. Now I see some of those same people finding smoke in bottles they have had since then which again seems to support the bottle variation theory. Who knows what happens when you run the stuff through filters trying to extract all the smoke flavors out? I was just trying to get across a point that after you’ve had a tainted bottle I don’t think even $10 is a deal.
Is this a bit like Al Pacino’s line in Dog Day Afternoon, when he says “Kiss me…”
and the $10 price tag is the kiss?
[insert appropriate smiley here]
I would rather have a proprietor say “This could be damaged goods; that is why the price is low. Buy at your own risk,” than charge full boat and say this is a blend of our special vineyards after we sold off the nasty stuff in bulk.
T.
I’m not sure I understand your question. The flavor profile of the wine is what it is, regardless of the price.
For me, more relevant question is “given how this wine tastes, do I think it’s a good value at the price?”. Having tasted the samples, I would have been quite unhappy with the value at the “normal” Navarro pricing. However, the quality of the Pinot Noir Reserve (which is $13/bottle) is much better than almost any sub-$15 Pinot I’ve been able to find.
I agree with all this, and your post above. This is all just my POV though as others seem to not have had smoke tainted wine or just like to give their favorite wineries the benefit of the doubt.
I agree with you. For me, the eucalyptus taints wine. For example, there are some Napa Cabs that I cannot drink, like Martha’s Vineyard. Some people LOVE this wine. For me, if was $10 a bottle, I still wouldn’t drink it.
Does this imply that they initially bottled this wine under the Navarro label and they’ve decided to stop, perhaps after getting blowback from customers?
Just tossing my two pennies worth in here. Navarro did initially bottle the 2008 under the Navarro label. Not sure what triggered the change to Indian Creek, but I would suspect that there was some negative reaction from customers. I don’t know how many bottles/cases were sold with the Navarro label, but I have one bottle purchased while visiting the winery. I have also purchased both the Indian Creek Mendocino and the Indian Creek Reserve (unfiltered).
You are right about the Mendocino bottling which was released in the summer but the Reserve (L’Ancienne) is typically released in the fall. I suspect that once they realized that the smoke did have some impact on the wine and thus the need to release the L’Ancienne as the Indian Creek Reserve they probably decided to re-label the Mendocino to keep things consistent and maintain the bottling hierarchy: Mendocino, L’Ancienne, Deep End. It will be most interesting to see how they handle the Deep End.
Mount Mary in the Yarra faced a similar problem with the 2007 Quintet. Bottled post a bush-fire ravaged vintage on the ‘we’ll just see’ basis, they eventually decided the wine wasn’t up to the standard required. MM have no ‘second’ label.
When the annual mailer time came round, instead they offered a second release of the 2006 vintage for sale, and those who bought were given (ie. no charge) bottles of the 2007. These wore a modified Quintet label that had the words ‘Not for Sale’ printed across it, and came with the advice to drink within 3-4 years as they felt the wine would be overwhelmed by taint beyond that.
Seems a pretty good solution to me…
GG
To give some context, my wife and I have now had two bottles of the Anthill 08 bottling and really like the wine. We don’t find any of the smoke character out of the range of scents and flavors we see from wines from non-smoke affected vintages (I guess our palates aren’t sensitive to it).
That said, we both found the Indian Creek Reserve wine to be overly smokey on the nose and the palate. There’s actually a very pretty pinot underneath, but the smoke is most definitely there.
I decanted this for about an hour (now running 2 hours) and think it is probably best served as a pop and pour… i noticed a lot less smoke on the palate straight out of the bottle.
Opened my first 375 ml of the Indian Creek Reserve. Nose was fine but there is definite smokiness on the palate. My immediate and honest impression was that it was like drinking wine out of an old ashtray. For me it was an interesting experiment but not a very enjoyable wine drinking experience.
Would be a great wine to pair with cigars and a bonfire which I probably will end up doing this fall with my remaining bottles. I will definitely be a buyer of the 2009 Methode L’Ancienne but I would not recommend buying the 2008 Indian Creek pinot noir.
Update: day 2 and the smokiness is receding on the palate with the cherry becoming more pronounced. If I knew nothing about the wine I still wouldn’t like it but it has improved from being unpleasant on day 1 to just weird. I think with the next science experiment I will decant and leave on the counter for a day just to see what it tastes like on day 2 with 24 hours of air.
Drinking a bottle of the regular bottling. Upon opening there was definitely a smokey component on the nose, with pinch of bonfire on the taste. My wife who knew nothing about the wine, described it as musty, and French, she guessed Burgundy. It’s not unpleasant, there is plenty of fruit, and the finish is lovely. I bought a mixed case, so not sure of what I paid just for the regular bottle, but I think around $8. At that price, I am happy. Will probably order more.
Sorry I wasn’t more clear. If I understand your comments, we see things the same way. Your question about value goes to the point I was making. From what I have seen, for some tasters, a mild flaw is totally forgivable at $12 but not at all ok at $30.
So, was the smoke taint mildly bothersome, but overall, the wine was fine to drink?
My sense is that these wines are like cilantro in that some folks absolutely can’t stand the flavor/aroma and others love it.
Same for the presence of smoke taint, with some hating it, others tolerating it, and some actually liking it. Not to mention the greatly reduced prices of these wines seem to enhance the “flavor” for me. Anyone try the zinfandel? Love to hear your thoughts.