WA #198

[Howard_Cooper]

This may be the worst thread I have read all year. I feel dirty just reading it.

[Justin_Bonner]

@Steven Miller

@Justin Bonner

@Steven Miller

What is crushed? 75?

All 85-87pts.

So, does crushed mean the scores weren’t deserved for this vintage? Or RP’s scores for previous vintages were grossly inflated? Or something else?

When I say crushed I’m referring to the fact that Hourglass, SBR and Robert Foley Vineyards has consistently scored in the 90’s going back over a decade. Now, we find Hourglass (a host of $100+ wines) receiving scores in “extremely pedestrian” range. To me, that’s crushed. Imagine Harlan receiving an 89pt score. Wouldn’t you say that would be a tough score for a $500 wine?

[WvanGorp]

Justin, are you assuming price should correlate with score?

[Eric_Adams]

As far as the Dunn, I had one a few years back and it wasn’t very good. It was probably 3 years old at the time I had it and I was in my wine drinking infancy. Given the optimal wine drinking window (waiting at least 20 years) any options on a 20+ year old Dunn?

[todd_waldmann]

What is this Wine Advocate of which you speak? Something I should care about?

And, Howard, you are not alone in feeling dirty for reading this thread.

[Cris_Whetstone]

@WvanGorp

Justin, are you assuming price should correlate with score?

[ToddFrench]

@WvanGorp

Justin, are you assuming price should correlate with score?

Justin, I think that points flipping is on its way out. The meal ticket has retired.

[Steve_Saxon]

@Todd F r e n c h

@WvanGorp

Justin, are you assuming price should correlate with score?

Justin, I think that points flipping is on its way out. The meal ticket has retired.

We better look up, Justin, Jordan and Rico might be jumping out windows.

[Brian_Tuite]

@Todd F r e n c h

Justin, I think that points flipping is on its way out.

On the contrary, I see some bargains popping up soon in the secondary market.

[Nathan_Smyth]

@Alan C h a n

old-school leaning producers like Dunn, Ridge, Togni

Whoa - sounds like TWA finally found someone with excellent taste in Cabernet!

Who’da thunk it?!?

[Jon_Troutman]

@Cris Whetstone

@Jon Troutman

Clape’s 09 wines got incredibly high scores from Bob, though not to worry… Cornas remains somewhat of a hipster wine for the time being.

I’ve never thought of his wines as hipster wines. As long as I’ve been into wine this house has had a great rep for old school wines and prices to match. They are awesome with age. If Parker’s score indicate a change in style then that would be most woeful.

Clape’s style isn’t hipster, but Cornas as a region is loved, for the most part, by the cool kids. I certainly don’t think it’s mainstream enough that Parker’s score is going to move the needle on pricing in any crazy way. I haven’t tasted this 09 wine, but I did have the 09 Renaissance, and if that’s any indication, the wine will have plenty of power and fruit, but shouldn’t be a stylistic diversion from his usual cuvee.

[Nathan_Smyth]

@Justin Bonner

Imagine Harlan receiving an 89pt score. Wouldn’t you say that would be a tough score for a $500 wine?

In all seriousness, for more than a few boutique wineries, I can see these scores being something akin to what must have been happening in the MF Global accounting department a few months ago, when some of the lowly bean counters started scratching their heads, and saying to themselves, “Uh-oh, ya think that maybe our business model is broken? Like to the tune of a billion dollars? Anybody gotta bridge that I can jump off of?”

[Tom_Lee]

@Eric Adams

As far as the Dunn, I had one a few years back and it wasn’t very good. It was probably 3 years old at the time I had it and I was in my wine drinking infancy. Given the optimal wine drinking window (waiting at least 20 years) any options on a 20+ year old Dunn?

Have had both the 94 Dunn Napa and Howell Mtn. within the last few months. Gorgeous wines that will continue to age for another decade. This is one producer that does not make a wine meant to be consumed at a young age. I for one am thrilled to see Randy Dunn get some kudos. Tremendous, age worthy wines that are well priced to boot.


Tom

[Tom_Lee]

@Matt Mauldin

@Dan Hammer

@Nick Ryan

Anderson Conn Valley… ouch! (Did Todd do something to piss him off?)

Do tell. What was the score?
As long as you’re checking, how did Schrader do?

Thanks.

Schrader was one of, if not the top, producer reviewed in the issue. Perhaps second only to Screaming Eagle.

Anyone care to post the scores for Schrader and Screaming Eagle for us non subscribers?

Tom

[Alan_C_h_a_n]

@Tom Lee

@Eric Adams

As far as the Dunn, I had one a few years back and it wasn’t very good. It was probably 3 years old at the time I had it and I was in my wine drinking infancy. Given the optimal wine drinking window (waiting at least 20 years) any options on a 20+ year old Dunn?

Have had both the 94 Dunn Napa and Howell Mtn. within the last few months. Gorgeous wines that will continue to age for another decade. This is one producer that does not make a wine meant to be consumed at a young age. I for one am thrilled to see Randy Dunn get some kudos. Tremendous, age worthy wines that are well priced to boot.


Tom

+1. Earlier this year at one of the Leo’s blind club dinners hosted by Ben Goldberg, a 1981 Dunn Howell Mountain was right there with 90 LLC and Pichon Baron for WOTN. These need time, but they are built to show greatness when their time has come.

[jbray23]

Tom,
Screagle was 98+ pts for 10’ and 97pts for 09’

Most Schraders were between 95-98pts for all

[Ian_Dorin]

I’m intrigued to see how Cali will be “advertised” when wineries use the scores. Will they just say Wine Advocate, or will Galloni’s name be attached to it?

Given how much I agree with Galloni (with Burgundy and Italy, not so much in Champagne), I thought his scores were far higher than they would have been, so I can see Loren’s point.

BTW, any one check out the German notes? Quite interesting to see David’s scores/notes on some producers.
Rhone was hard to sift through. I think Parker’s really gone silly with the scores. That was A LOT of high scoring Rhone wines, epic year or not. 99 point Cornas? I bet it’s damn good b/c it’s Clape, but 99 points? Only one time in the history of the publication did a Cornas score 95 points (Tardieu Laurent VV 1996), and now 8 get added in two vintages (6 for 2009 alone)? You mean to tell me there were no other epic years in Cornas in the last 25+ years?

[loren.grossman]

@K. R. Baker

@loren.grossman

Not sure why one would think Galloni more conservative. He consistently lavishes very high scores on a number of Italian wines. I think we are seeing some balance here…and I say great.

not exactly true. do a search based on score for italy, and you’ll see comparatively (to parker) fewer 100, 99, and 98s. he is indeed more conservative, and said at the outset that he wasn’t going to give a single wine 100 until he had more experience with the wines.

I suppose my point is that I have seen dozens, maybe 50 or more, 95-98 points scores given out by Galloni to…say…2004-2006 Brunelli. He is not shy with his praise. At all. Could this be a sign of balance to come to Napa? And again I say great!

[jimmack]

@Ian Dorin

I’m intrigued to see how Cali will be “advertised” when wineries use the scores. Will they just say Wine Advocate, or will Galloni’s name be attached to it?

Given how much I agree with Galloni (with Burgundy and Italy, not so much in Champagne), I thought his scores were far higher than they would have been, so I can see Loren’s point.

BTW, any one check out the German notes? Quite interesting to see David’s scores/notes on some producers.
Rhone was hard to sift through. I think Parker’s really gone silly with the scores. That was A LOT of high scoring Rhone wines, epic year or not. 99 point Cornas? I bet it’s damn good b/c it’s Clape, but 99 points? Only one time in the history of the publication did a Cornas score 95 points (Tardieu Laurent VV 1996), and now 8 get added in two vintages (6 for 2009 alone)? You mean to tell me there were no other epic years in Cornas in the last 25+ years?

I had the same reaction when I saw the 2009 Clape score. I recently bought an offering of 2005,2006 and 2007 from Rare Wine Company at pretty good prices. I am afraid that this score is going to significantly raise the prices for this truly great Cornas producer. I have not tried the 2009 Clape Cornas yet but I would be surprised if it is that much better than the either of these three vintages. Having said that I am happy for Clape for the recognition and increased sales this will no doubt bring for them and the region.

[Peter_C]

@WvanGorp

Justin, are you assuming price should correlate with score?

Wilfred - yes, and you’re also discounting rarity, which is also extremely important when it comes to how a wine tastes :

http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=773224#p773224