Why Burgundy

[Mike_During]

@Lewis Dawson

The site-derived nuances and complexities are endlessly varied and never boring to me.

Yes, and the beauty is that the interest is equal to village, 1er and GC so you don’t need to spend up big to get it, or drink the best. In fact IMO you don’t get it if you don’t try and drink across the board. Cheers Mike

[Stu_Jakub]

@Lewis Dawson

Peter, do they still make white Burgundy? I could have sworn that was removed from the market years ago due to defective product. I’m pretty sure only red Burgundy is being grown now.
Rouge = Blanc =

Everyone keeps hating on white burgundy. Yeah we’ve all been screwed over but things have gotten better (since 04) and if your smart you can navigate around a lot of the potholes. Use the ox-wiki and try before you buy. And that’s another reason to love burgundy. She can break your heart but the pleasure can be so profound that you still come back for more. Very few things in this world have the power.

[Tim_Corliss]

@Stu Jakub

@Lewis Dawson

Peter, do they still make white Burgundy? I could have sworn that was removed from the market years ago due to defective product. I’m pretty sure only red Burgundy is being grown now.
Rouge = Blanc =

Everyone keeps hating on white burgundy. Yeah we’ve all been screwed over but things have gotten better (since 04) and if your smart you can navigate around a lot of the potholes. Use the ox-wiki and try before you buy. And that’s another reason to love burgundy. She can break your heart but the pleasure can be so profound that you still come back for more. Very few things in this world have the power.

Yeah, I’m back in a mini white burgundy kick right now. So far no premox.

[Rick_Gregory]

@Stu Jakub

… and try before you buy. And that’s another reason to love burgundy. She can break your heart but the pleasure can be so profound that you still come back for more. Very few things in this world have the power.

No. Trying before buying is useless when it comes to premox. I tried all of the wines that went bad on me and they were fine on release. And premox doesn’t add to the mystery in any way whatsoever. It’s a defect, not a positive.

And you might think you’re safe from 2004, but that is just a now entering the age when premox would be show?

[Stu_Jakub]

Rick, I don’t really buy pre-2000 unless I’ve had the wine recently or know someone who has. Premox doesn’t kick in until about 6-7 years so your right tasting on release doesn’t mean much. I’m tasting through some 04 right now which was supposedly the first year that producers became aware of premox (7 years after the terrible 96’s) and began taking steps like using more sulfur, less batonage,etc. So far my experiences with 04-07 has been pretty solid.

[Rick_Gregory]

@Stu Jakub

Rick, I don’t really buy pre-2000 unless I’ve had the wine recently or know someone who has. Premox doesn’t kick in until about 6-7 years so your right tasting on release doesn’t mean much. I’m tasting through some 04 right now which was supposedly the first year that producers became aware of premox (7 years after the terrible 96’s) and began taking steps like using more sulfur, less batonage,etc. So far my experiences with 04-07 has been pretty solid.

Sigh… your comment didn’t say you were buying aged wines. I (sadly) don’t need you to tell me when premox kicks in or that tasting on release doesn’t help (that was my point originally). But even trying older wines will tell you nothing as it’s random. By your own statements and my experience, pox kicks in 7 or so years post vintage - which is were the 04s are just now getting to. Later vintages are still too young to tell.

I’m not going to belabor this, but your statement that from 04 on we are safe isn’t true. The truth is we just don’t know yet.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Rick Gregory

@Stu Jakub

Rick, I don’t really buy pre-2000 unless I’ve had the wine recently or know someone who has. Premox doesn’t kick in until about 6-7 years so your right tasting on release doesn’t mean much. I’m tasting through some 04 right now which was supposedly the first year that producers became aware of premox (7 years after the terrible 96’s) and began taking steps like using more sulfur, less batonage,etc. So far my experiences with 04-07 has been pretty solid.

Sigh… your comment didn’t say you were buying aged wines. I (sadly) don’t need you to tell me when premox kicks in or that tasting on release doesn’t help (that was my point originally). But even trying older wines will tell you nothing as it’s random. By your own statements and my experience, pox kicks in 7 or so years post vintage - which is were the 04s are just now getting to. Later vintages are still too young to tell.

I’m not going to belabor this, but your statement that from 04 on we are safe isn’t true. The truth is we just don’t know yet.

I have been buying white Burgundy seriously since vintage 1992 and really got burnt for many of my g-crus white from vintage 1996. Oxi-rate more than 50 % for most of them. That being said…when they are on - it is completely something else. The only other dry ( or bone-dry ) white which could ( or need to be ) age is CSHune. I still own g-crus white burugndy from vintge 1998 to vintage 2002 and will continue to chance them as I really have no choice. Will I do it again in the future ? For sure not for an Montrachets, C-M. B-M. and BBM as the prices are too high to take the risk. .

As my love for white Burgundy to go with sea-food will never change …and… since SAQ also changed their policy ( in that they will refund you with a credit ). So I adjust and just buy 3 to maxi 6 of CC, Chablis G-crus or 1ieme crus and drink them before 6 or 7 and plenty of other simple white for early comsumption .

[Peter_Chiu]

@Mike During

@Lewis Dawson

The site-derived nuances and complexities are endlessly varied and never boring to me.

Yes, and the beauty is that the interest is equal to village, 1er and GC so you don’t need to spend up big to get it, or drink the best. In fact IMO you don’t get it if you don’t try and drink across the board. Cheers Mike

Yes…a true connaisseur should not limit himself to a few pots of famous land ( in Burgundy ).

[Gerard_S]

Honestly, when I say Why Burgundy… it’s more of a fisting shaking scream with me giving the stink eye to a bottle.

I love white burgundy. I would buy more, but I have been burned too many times with $100+ premoxed bottles.

I have a love/hate realtionship with red burgundy. Unfortunately, there are very few “tastings” in TN of quality red burgs. So it is very hard to try before you buy. I have had very mixed results buying blind. An older burg lover told me that my mixed results were just the nature of the beast. I continue to buy small amounts to try different vineyards/producers. Maybe by the time I am 70, I will know what I should have bought 35 years ago.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Gerard Stranch

Honestly, when I say Why Burgundy… it’s more of a fisting shaking scream with me giving the stink eye to a bottle.

I love white burgundy. I would buy more, but I have been burned too many times with $100+ premoxed bottles.

I have a love/hate realtionship with red burgundy. Unfortunately, there are very few “tastings” in TN of quality red burgs. So it is very hard to try before you buy. I have had very mixed results buying blind. An older burg lover told me that my mixed results were just the nature of the beast. I continue to buy small amounts to try different vineyards/producers. Maybe by the time I am 70, I will know what I should have bought 35 years ago.

Gerard …definitely Yes. It is a love/hate relationship. Liston more to the older burg lover as he knows what he is talking about: nature of the beast ( = beautiful girl with hot temper ). With experience you will find the right way to heaven.

Small additional comments from another older burg lover : (1) find your beloved fav producers first… and (2) then find out * when * is the fav drinking window to open your burgungy from your fav producers.

[M_Dildine]

It’s ancient and authentic. Also trendy, edgy, prestigeous and pricy. All the cool kids are doing it. There is this sexy risk element to it. Smug hipsters exclaim that all roads lead there - so why not just take a bee-line? Also it declares your independence from Parker!

Woohoo!

[Berry_Crawford]

I don’t see (red) burgundy as risky or full of land-mines at all. If one buys from any region they don’t understand there will be disapointments. I find red burgs very consistent because Ive done my homework.

[M_Dildine]

@Berry Crawford

I don’t see (red) burgundy as risky or full of land-mines at all. If one buys from any region they don’t understand there will be disapointments. I find red burgs very consistent because Ive done my homework.

Sure Berry, but then you’re a Giants fan!

[Howard_Cooper]

@Gerard Stranch

Unfortunately, there are very few “tastings” in TN of quality red burgs. So it is very hard to try before you buy. I have had very mixed results buying blind.

I guess you don’t read this board much. I read tons of tasting notes on red Burgundy. In fact, Ray Walker has been doing a village a week on red Burgundies for the last few months. There are great sources in wine writers for Burgundy - Allen Meadows, John Gilman, Claude Kolm, just to name a few. So, I am really confused here.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Berry Crawford

I don’t see (red) burgundy as risky or full of land-mines at all. If one buys from any region they don’t understand there will be disapointments. I find red burgs very consistent because Ive done my homework.

You have done your homework. Berry, I remember a few years ago when you were just starting to like Burgundy. The transformation and growth have been fascinating to watch from afar.

Burgundy is not for the lazy. If you don’t want to do your homework, well, there are hundreds of other wine regions in the world.

[Berry_Crawford]

@M. Dildine

@Berry Crawford

I don’t see (red) burgundy as risky or full of land-mines at all. If one buys from any region they don’t understand there will be disapointments. I find red burgs very consistent because Ive done my homework.

Sure Berry, but then you’re a Giants fan!

huh?

[Berry_Crawford]

@Howard Cooper

@Berry Crawford

I don’t see (red) burgundy as risky or full of land-mines at all. If one buys from any region they don’t understand there will be disapointments. I find red burgs very consistent because Ive done my homework.

You have done your homework. Berry, I remember a few years ago when you were just starting to like Burgundy. The transformation and growth have been fascinating to watch from afar. .

Thanks. Im still pretty much a “beginer” in the grand scheme of things, but if someone wants success in Burgundy it is really really important to have a basic understanding of the area and to taste widely in order to discover which producers make wine in a style that one likes. Also I think alot of people become frustrated with burgs because they don’t know how to serve them. People are used to popping and pouring wines from other regions but you can’t really to that with high acid reds and expect consistent success.

[Rick_Gregory]

@M. Dildine

It’s ancient and authentic. Also trendy, edgy, prestigeous and pricy. All the cool kids are doing it. There is this sexy risk element to it. Smug hipsters exclaim that all roads lead there - so why not just take a bee-line? Also it declares your independence from Parker!

Mike? Stuff yourself.

[M_Dildine]

[Rick_Gregory]

@Gerard Stranch

I have had very mixed results buying blind. An older burg lover told me that my mixed results were just the nature of the beast. I continue to buy small amounts to try different vineyards/producers. Maybe by the time I am 70, I will know what I should have bought 35 years ago.

This is why I generally reply “producer, producer, producer” when people ask how to buy red Burg. Find producers you love, ideally trying them in good but not great vintages so you can separate out producer skill a bit from vintage influence. But, yes, you cannot buy randomly and get good results.