Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

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Brady Daniels
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#101 Post by Brady Daniels » January 14th, 2020, 11:56 am

I’m missing the London EP season for the first time since 2007. ಥ_ಥ

I’ll second what others have said. Virtually all the wines will be barrel samples placed in bottle for this purpose. It is a mistake to make too much from individual samples. The tastings can give some impression of producer performance, and a better idea of vintage performance. But it is also entirely possible to draw the wrong conclusions. For example, I avoided the 2008 vintage almost entirely because the wines were so shrill at the EP tastings. It turns out many/most were still going through malo. And the wines of 2008 are right up my AFWE alley. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I highly recommend attending London EP. Between the tastings and meeting up with generous friends it’s like a MUCH cheaper La Paulee.
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William Kelley
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#102 Post by William Kelley » January 14th, 2020, 12:00 pm

billnanson wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 10:50 am
William Kelley wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 9:07 am
...and those who, while finding plenty of excellent wines, were a bit more ambivalent about the style of the vintage.
Haha! That would be me :)
I think you, me, John Gilman and Claude Kolm fall into this camp, more or less, with Jasper Morris being the most enthusiastic and Neal Martin enthusiastic to a somewhat lesser extent. But I haven't had more than a cursory read so perhaps I'm misrepresenting people.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#103 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » January 14th, 2020, 1:41 pm

Anyone have 2018 clavelier?

2018 is my daughters birth year so I’ve been looking to put some stuff away. So far just a little clavelier and bertheau, not much our yet.

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William Kelley
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#104 Post by William Kelley » January 14th, 2020, 2:31 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 1:41 pm
2018 is my daughters birth year so I’ve been looking to put some stuff away.
I would load up on Lafarge. In fact, the hypothetical is unnecessary as I will be loading up myself. Truly a brilliant vintage for them, even by their high standards, and it will be interesting to see how the '18 Clos des Chênes ranks alongside the 2015 rendition in thirty years.

Moreau's Cardeuse should also be on your shopping list.
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Vinod S.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#105 Post by Vinod S. » January 14th, 2020, 3:17 pm

My 100% non-expert view is that producers that run to a riper/fruit forward style do great in lean years (I think Fourrier knocked it out of the park in 2011), while more classical producers like Lafarge that really push ageability / structure are the sweet spot in warmer vintages. Intrigued to see how the Hudelot-Noellat wines show at Howard Ripley tomorrow.
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William Kelley
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#106 Post by William Kelley » January 14th, 2020, 3:23 pm

Vinod S. wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 3:17 pm
Intrigued to see how the Hudelot-Noellat wines show at Howard Ripley tomorrow.
You are in for a treat!
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#107 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » January 14th, 2020, 3:47 pm

William Kelley wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 2:31 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 1:41 pm
2018 is my daughters birth year so I’ve been looking to put some stuff away.
I would load up on Lafarge. In fact, the hypothetical is unnecessary as I will be loading up myself. Truly a brilliant vintage for them, even by their high standards, and it will be interesting to see how the '18 Clos des Chênes ranks alongside the 2015 rendition in thirty years.

Moreau's Cardeuse should also be on your shopping list.
I’m planning to put away my regular stuff, Clerget, angerville, sigaut, hudelot-noellat, drouhin-laroze and barthod.

Pondering drouhin, lignier, Rousseau, mugnier, and a little DRC (probably richebourg or la tache)

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#108 Post by Gerhard P. » January 15th, 2020, 2:36 am

Sh@n A wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 10:53 am
Any particular regions that fares better than others in 2018? I am asking for reds, but am generally curious.
Not better, but Northern Rhone should also be fine in 2018 ...
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#109 Post by billnanson » January 15th, 2020, 4:39 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 3:47 pm
Pondering drouhin, lignier, Rousseau, mugnier, and a little DRC (probably richebourg or la tache)
To my palate, one of those was absolutely awful - the worst of my 150+ domaine tastings to-date - the rest are good to great...
Therein lies the 'blind-buying nightmare' of the 2018 vintage.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#110 Post by Peter Chiu » January 15th, 2020, 4:47 am

Hmmm......Roumier..Mugnier...and Lignier....all sound like church bell ringing in Chambolle ?

May God bless all those label chasers and blind-buying nightmarers !! [smileyvault-ban.gif] newhere
Last edited by Peter Chiu on January 15th, 2020, 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#111 Post by Howard Cooper » January 15th, 2020, 5:33 am

Brady Daniels wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 11:56 am


I highly recommend attending London EP. Between the tastings and meeting up with generous friends it’s like a MUCH cheaper La Paulee.
For better or worse, certainly one major difference is that the London tastings seems to be 2018s while the Paulee in NY in March will be showing 2017s.
Howard

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#112 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » January 15th, 2020, 6:35 am

May also put away some fourrier, dujac, and mugneret gibourg

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Mark Golodetz
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#113 Post by Mark Golodetz » January 15th, 2020, 6:55 am

I heard from a couple of people whose palates I trust that the Rossignol Trapets showed well. I buy every year, so will be buying a six pack of the three Grand Crus.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#114 Post by crickey » January 15th, 2020, 7:36 am

William Kelley wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 12:00 pm
billnanson wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 10:50 am
William Kelley wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 9:07 am
...and those who, while finding plenty of excellent wines, were a bit more ambivalent about the style of the vintage.
Haha! That would be me :)
I think you, me, John Gilman and Claude Kolm fall into this camp, more or less, with Jasper Morris being the most enthusiastic and Neal Martin enthusiastic to a somewhat lesser extent. But I haven't had more than a cursory read so perhaps I'm misrepresenting people.
Neal Martin was somewhat more enthusiastic about the whites, at least compared to expectations. It might have been the result of a different set of wines being covered, but I thought your take on the red wines was slightly higher/more enthusiastic than his. Like you, Neal more or less said that it was necessary to pay close attention to specific producers, i.e., the vintage results were uneven.
Last edited by crickey on January 15th, 2020, 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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William Kelley
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#115 Post by William Kelley » January 15th, 2020, 7:45 am

crickey wrote:
January 15th, 2020, 7:36 am

Neal Martin was somewhat more enthusiastic about the whites, at least compared to expectations. It might have been the result of a different set of wines being covered, but I thought your takes on the red wines was slightly higher/more enthusiastic than his. Like you, Neal more or less said that it was necessary to pay close attention to specific producers, i.e., the vintage results were uneven.
That makes sense. I haven't read many of Neal's notes yet, just the introduction. The only point on which I think we differ is his argument that:
The 2018s are generally more energetic and, banal as it sounds, “fun” wines that are destined to give a lot of pleasure, and certainly less austere and reserved compared to their 2017 counterparts.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#116 Post by billnanson » January 15th, 2020, 8:04 am

William Kelley wrote:
January 15th, 2020, 7:45 am
Neal wrote:
The 2018s are generally more energetic and, banal as it sounds, “fun” wines that are destined to give a lot of pleasure, and certainly less austere and reserved compared to their 2017 counterparts.
I'd side with William on that - to taste a 17 after many 18s was to lighten to load, and inject a bit of fun!
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#117 Post by Joshua Kates » January 15th, 2020, 8:09 am

billnanson wrote:
January 15th, 2020, 4:39 am
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 3:47 pm
Pondering drouhin, lignier, Rousseau, mugnier, and a little DRC (probably richebourg or la tache)
To my palate, one of those was absolutely awful - the worst of my 150+ domaine tastings to-date - the rest are good to great...
Therein lies the 'blind-buying nightmare' of the 2018 vintage.
Care to sat a little more about this somewhat gobsmacking comment, Bill?

I'm suspecting L or M, as smaller and thus more variable producers.

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#118 Post by billnanson » January 15th, 2020, 12:12 pm

I've sat enough Joshua ;-)
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Brady Daniels
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#119 Post by Brady Daniels » January 15th, 2020, 2:53 pm

The 2018 EP campaign is getting consistently negative posts on the U.k Wine Pages. Interesting. I suppose the good news is I’ve seen Sonoma Coast rather than Russian River Valley comparisons. [snort.gif]
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William Kelley
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#120 Post by William Kelley » January 15th, 2020, 3:12 pm

Brady Daniels wrote:
January 15th, 2020, 2:53 pm
The 2018 EP campaign is getting consistently negative posts on the U.k Wine Pages. Interesting. I suppose the good news is I’ve seen Sonoma Coast rather than Russian River Valley comparisons. [snort.gif]
Given the impact of pH on free sulfur and how fragile some of these 2018s are, it wouldn't surprise me if even good wines are showing poorly after the journey to London. The fact that a lot of Burgundians have gone to Hong Kong this week means, I assume, that some of the samples in London would have been prepared a good while in advance.

For the same reasons the samples are fragile, these wines will require very attentive élevage by the way. If 2018 is a sign of things to come we are entering an era where issues of sanitation, cross-contamination and minimizing oxygen ingress are going to become much more critical than in the past. A first step would be to do less barrel tasting...
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#121 Post by Vinod S. » January 15th, 2020, 5:10 pm

Thoughts from EP tastings this evening:
-No hiding the warmth of this vintage, with wines universally rich and fruit forward
-No wines came off as hot/alcoholic to me, but easy to see comparison to CA Pinot noir rather than classical burgundy perfume/delicacy
-As a generalization I think Vosne Romanee/Gevrey Chambertin had a bit more structure and length on the finish to balance out the fruit (Chambolle, is usually my go to spot, but not this year)
-I think there are some very enjoyable village level wines that will be ready to drink earlier than usual but probably won’t ever shut down
-Some of the cooler, higher mineral 1er crus should outperform, but I’m not sure this is the year to load up on high end premier and grand crus even if your lucky enough to have access/can afford them; some of them have good structure and warm vintages can age beautifully, I’m just skeptical they will outperform other recent vintages or are better value
-Producers I generally shy away from due to heavier oak usage I think could have very strong vintages as the oak imparts a bit of spice/weight to balance out the rich,red fruit (though maybe more to the US than British preference set) that can otherwise be overwhelming, quite liked the range from Perrot Minot and Drouhin Laroze this year
What I’m buying: village wines from producers I trust/buy every year even if they showed a touch foursquare (Fourrier, Hudelot-Noellat, Lafarge), 3-4 premier crus, and some Bourgogne Blanc and St. Aubin (whites lower down the range were quite enjoyable/should also never close, and as always Lamy and PYCM are magicians)
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#122 Post by Nick Gangas » January 15th, 2020, 5:28 pm

picked up;

Comte Armand Clos de epeneaux
H-N RSV, Suchots and Beaux Monts.

Still breezing through Meadows today he didn't seem overly enthusiastic.

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joz€f p1nxten
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#123 Post by joz€f p1nxten » January 16th, 2020, 12:48 am

Duroché finished bottling the 2018s a week ago, so will be picking those up shortly. Otherwise Lafarge is on the list so far.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#124 Post by Peter Chiu » January 16th, 2020, 8:08 am

Joshua .....I am back-filing 2011 reds ... pileon

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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#125 Post by dbailey » January 16th, 2020, 9:03 am

Can’t recall burghound using language like that before re a vintage. Caveat emptor indeed.
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Re: Burgundy 2018, impressions from barrel

#126 Post by Peter Chiu » January 16th, 2020, 10:17 am

A tale of 2 cities.....yes - the first time...and doubtful it is will be the last time.

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