Has this ISOB/AFWE thing gone a little too far?

I’m the first guy to complain about flabby and overripe, overalcoholic wine, and I’m quite excited about all the cooler climate wines coming out of California. But … but … there’s a limit.

I have in front of me a 2012 Forlorn Hope “Mil Amores” red blend (Dewitt Vineyards, Sierra Foothills). I can’t remember where I picked it up, but I like a lot of Foothills wines and the name intrigued me.

Well, it’s like biting into a small crab apple. Or a lemon. Or a little of both. Sure it’s 12.8%, but does it have to be sour? I mean, there’s nothing wrong with a little phenolic ripeness (to rip off “Ripeness isn’t necessarily a bad thing” Jay Miller).

My wife just got home after a long day and I can’t inflict this on her. Some Alvaro Castro Dao just arrived, which is a pleasing wine with acid but some nice, warm fruit. I’ll open one of those for her and hope this Forlorn Hope bottle takes on weight.

That seemed to happen with another New Wave Californian I opened recently: the 2008 Broc - Luna Matta Vineyard/Paso Robles Mourvedre. That was too tart for comfort the first night, but the second half (refrigerated) had fleshed out and showed more fruit a day or two later – enough that I bought a couple more bottles. I thought it was quite promising at that stage, and pleasing. It was nowhere near as acidic on day 1 as the Forlorn Hope, though. I’ll see how the Forlorn Hope fares with a day or to, but I think those grapes needed to hang in the California sun a bit longer.

FYI, would any of these New Wavers add acid? These seem like some overacidified riper California wines I’ve had over the years, where the acid isn’t integrated. But I would have thought these folks would aim for natural acidity.

I had to email two different winemakers to make sure that I had not received spoiled wines. They both used Mendocino Carignan, and each wine was almost undrinkable on day one.

One wine was awesome on the nose, but never seemed to bring out the fruit. All stems and acid.

The second one, from a prominent winemaker on a new solo project, transformed into a beautiful, brambly raspberry coulis.

Winemaker #1 was very polite and helpful, and even sent a replacement bottle for me to taste, as means of confirming whether or not this was how the wine was “supposed” to taste. I will report back when I have popped the new bottle.

I worry when I cannot even determine whether a wine is sound or not anymore, solely based on levels of acidity found in newer projects…

I love movements like this.

“Hmmm, this is a nice little Corbieres for ten dollars…”

“Where can I find a wine just like it for three times the price?”

:slight_smile:

The Forlorn Hills was not expensive. I think I got it at PJ’s, which sells it for $26. The nose smelled very much like Northern Rhone syrah from a cool climate or year – like a nice, fresh St. Joseph that would sell for a similar price.

I paid less than $30 for the Broc Mourvedre.

Pursuing balance is one thing. Actually finding it is another thing.

There might be some whiffs, but these trends by and large have California much more interesting for my mileage.

+1

I can’t say that I’m a big fan of marketing & advertising campaigns in general.

But, 5 years ago, if I was a California winemaker who made serious wine that didn’t ooze gobs, I’d have darn well signed up for a group trying to market more restrained wines. That is, if I felt like not going bankrupt.

This is less about IPOB and more about natural wines which have a completely different profile than traditional wines. They’re definitely not for everyone. Neither Forlorn Hope nor Broc market themselves as natural, but they most assuredly are.

If you desire traditional wine aromas and textures, avoid the new breed. If you are chasing freshness or desiring something completely different, go for it!

Well, there’s the problem…


If you were a Somm, you’d know. [wink.gif]

:angry: Markus, don’t hate on the Carignan now.

John,

I have no clue on these particular wines, but I do know from my experience that in cooler climate areas (and certain soils) picking earlier will give you great acidities — until the wine goes through ML. Then, because the area is so cool (and picking earlier would exacerbate this), the malic acid never respires out, and you have a huge shift during ML, resulting in a flabby wine. So you add acid to what it a high acid wine to begin with and hope it doesn’t get stuck. That type of acid addition is difficult to do correctly.

Again, no clue if that happened on these wines, but it might speak to the comment/question in the latter part of your post.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

When you say natural in this context, specifically what techniques are you talking about? Many natural winemakers will use whole cluster carbonic maceration, is that what you are talking about?

By the way the wine is described in the tasting note it almost sounds like it still has a lot of malic acid in it. I wonder if ML was suppressed with this wine.

Berry,

Whole cluster actually gives you higher pHs.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

Why should natural wines have a “completely different profile” or higher acidity? Or higher malic acid in particular? Apart from picking earlier, I mean. If anything, other things being equal, I’d expect more fruit in a wine where less or no sulfur was used, and in that case I would think the acid might not feature so prominently.

FYI, the Broc is labeled as 14.5%, so that plainly wasn’t picked very early. Also, I tend to like wines with stems, so I’m sure that’s not the issue.

Yes, I am aware. I wasn’t linking the malic and whole cluster statements. I am just wondering what he means by natural wine making. As we have debated ad nauseum here “natural” is a fairly nebulous term so I was wondering what about that producer’s methods would be considered as such. The one thing that lots of self described natural winemakers have in common besides low or no so2 is carbonic. But of course not all of them. Clos saron is often described as natural but Gideon Bienstock is actually rather anti-carbonic maceration.

Separately, I reread the tasting note and the mention of crab apple makes me wonder if the wine didn’t go through MF which is unusual for red wines and would certainly stand out.

The Forlorn Hope website indicates that they do use sulfur, and that he likes grapes that are often produced with high acids (barbera, trousseau, riesling, verdelho).

Here’s there note on the Mil Amores:
A blend of Touriga Nacional, Tinto Roriz, and Trincadeira from the Dewitt Vineyard’s decomposed granitic soils in the Sierra Foothills. As we continue our exploration of the character of these Portuguese varieties we at times discover unexpected surprises: in 2012 we strove for a more refined mouthfeel in this wine by approaching the ferment with as gentle a hand as possible; the result was a wonderfully supple texture – and, to our delight, an unprecedentedly expressive bouquet. 427 cases produced.

Supple is not how I would describe it.

John-

My experience with Matthew Rorick is that he is very available & responsive to customers. I highly recommend e-mailing him if you are dissatisfied with the wine.

John,
I’ve not had the Broc. But I can address the F-H wines.
Matt is not a part of the IPoB cabal. Neither is he a part of the natural wine crowd that SweetAlice swoons over. Although he embraces some of the natural wine practices,
he is certainly not dogmatic about it. He does use SO2 on most of his wines. But he also makes a few wines w/ no SO2 additions. He also makes some skin-contact whites.
But he is definitely not part of the IPoB or the
“natural” wine movement. He just does what he does w/ no special agenda other than make some interesting wines that, perhaps, other people might like. I do know that SweetAlice
is a big fan of his wines. But if you ask him about it, he’ll just shrug his shoulders and give you a big $hit-eating grin (a grin that seems to be permanently on his mug). I think it’s rare that
Matt would add acid…but he’d have no compunction about doing it if he felt it necessary.

I’ve had the MilAmores in March '14. Even at 12.80% alcohol, I thought it surprisingly tart & lean, especially for an AmadorCnty red. Pretty sure it was not acidified. But I found a lot of unusual/
interest flavors/smells (for AmadorCnty) in the wine and suspect it might age into something pretty interesting. I didn’t feel it was biting into a lemon and thought the acidity was not far
out of line from a Piemonte Barbera.
We recently had the F-H Riesling '12 (12.02%) and the Semillon '11 (11.6%) (his current release). They had a teeth-chattering/screechy acidity to them that made them hard to drink in a wine-tasting setting.
They were definitely not what I would call wines of “balance”. But I also think, because of their elevated acidities, they’ll age into something pretty interesting . Just like HunterVlly Semillons or
ClareVlly or MargaretRiver Rieslings, two that have a searing acidity to them when young.

Going back to the IPoB crowd. I’ve had any number of their wines, on release, that I would definitely say, despite their lower alcohols and higher acidities, were not in “balance”. However,
some of them may, with btl age, actually come into balance and become pretty good wines. I address this very question over on CharlieOlken’s last blog :
http://www.cgcw.com/databaseshowitem.aspx?id=80673
So the question is: Does a wine dreadfully out of “balance” qualify as an IPoB wine if it may (some are a bit of a gamble) come into balance w/ age?? I’d like to hear some of
the IPoB cabal answer that question. Alas…they’re more interested in marketing IPoB wines than answering the tough questions.

So…bottom line…Matt does not usually add acid…but would if he thought it necessary. He is not a member of the IPoB or “natural wine” crowd nor any other Commie-inspired/pinko groups like that.
He just does what he does and the results can sometimes be a bit hit or miss. For you, the MilAmores was a “miss”. For me…the jury’s still out.
Sorry to ramble on.
Tom

Thanks for all the background info, Tom.

Piemonte Barbera is good comparison. That did occur to me, though, as I said, I thought there was a syrah-like scent on the nose.