Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

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gene keenan
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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#101 Post by gene keenan » October 16th, 2015, 6:55 pm

So now you will have no option but to "tip" 20% on that $1,000 bottle of wine. Danny Meyer: WINNING!

At least it puts that debate to bed.
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D@v!d P@rt@!n
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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#102 Post by D@v!d P@rt@!n » October 16th, 2015, 7:03 pm

I will continue to eat at home. [cheers.gif]
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Chris Seiber
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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#103 Post by Chris Seiber » October 16th, 2015, 9:49 pm

gene keenan wrote:So now you will have no option but to "tip" 20% on that $1,000 bottle of wine. Danny Meyer: WINNING!

At least it puts that debate to bed.
I don't know if they're doing that, and nobody else seems to either. I actually emailed the company today to see if they would tell me. We'll see if they reply.

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gene keenan
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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#104 Post by gene keenan » October 17th, 2015, 10:10 am

Chris Seiber wrote:
gene keenan wrote:So now you will have no option but to "tip" 20% on that $1,000 bottle of wine. Danny Meyer: WINNING!

At least it puts that debate to bed.
I don't know if they're doing that, and nobody else seems to either. I actually emailed the company today to see if they would tell me. We'll see if they reply.
[cheers.gif] Let us know. I would think they are leaving money on the table but then again it will make those over priced wines even more so thereby driving down sales.
Jerry loved well aged BV Private Reserve Georges De Latour

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Arv R
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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#105 Post by Arv R » October 17th, 2015, 10:12 am

That'll be interesting to see what they say about the wines.

Over time now that the fully loaded price is being shown on their lists, perhaps they will have to redesign those.

Not really related, but one thing that I find crazy is how many places fashion themselves as fine dining, with prices to match, that don't have proper table linens.
R_@_0

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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#106 Post by L e o F r o k i c » October 17th, 2015, 1:22 pm

Michael Powers wrote: I'm sorry but that makes no sense. Bowing to some putative example of capitalism without even stopping to consider whether the alternative would be any less competitive is absurd. If anything this is an excellent example of how in the US we assume that any system we have in place - all too often some form of highly predatory mercantilism - is the best system, and that any other system would be inferior. That kind of small-minded, exclusionary thinking can only serve to limit innovation. In reality the alternative suggested is no less a capitalist system than is the tipping model. Is McDonald's not a capitalist enterprise? I suspect it is. Danny Meyers isn't handing the extra money out to the homeless near his restaurants, he's giving it to his workers, likely (at least in part) in the hopes that they will work harder and that there will be less turnover. He may lose servers if they don't make as much money, but he may well gain talent in the back of the house in the exchange. Nothing anti-competitive about it.
Michael,

Oh yes, the alternative that is suggested is very capitalist, capitalist to the core, which will only benefit the shareholders, if it takes root. If you ever worked in the restaurant in NYC you would understand where this is going. Right now the way system works is not Ideal but is far from being predatory and benefits wait staff and gives them a living wage. This quote from Denny Meyer illustrates well what I mean, During his 30 years in the business, he said, “kitchen income has gone up no more than 25 percent. Meanwhile, dining room pay has gone up 200 percent.” Waiters income has kept with inflation b/c it was not dependant on the owners but on percentage of the prices. once you take that away it won't be long before the waiters incomes mimic those of McDonalds. If an owner feels like his BoH staff is not making enough, he can raise their pay, no? No money for it, raise prices on the menu 5% and that will solve the problem. Figuring out how to take it from the waiters and give it to BoH is wrong. What do you think, how long will it be before the Waiters make what BoH used to make rather than BoH makes the same wage like what Wait staff use to make? I can guarantee you that the service will suffer if this goes. What do you think, how long will it take, for owners to figure out that they can make more money with having less waiters. First they will pay them less, then they'll figure out I don't need 30 guys on the floor, they should all work harder and I'll get by with 25. In NYC average waiter makes $50,000 and in a great restaurant they make $100,000. Lose 5 of them and there's a saving of 250,000 to 500,000 a year. Than, lets say waiters were making $40 an hour when they were working for tips, now they make $20 and get no raise while the menu prices keep going up. Do you really think you'll be getting better service? If you want to be higher then somebody, don't throw them in the hole, stand on the box.
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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#107 Post by Peter Metzger » October 18th, 2015, 10:14 am

Interesting article from the NY Times about tipping - http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/16/opini ... .html?_r=0

Origins of Tipping:
"The practice of tipping originated in the aristocratic homes of feudal Europe. Then, in the 19th century, Americans returning from travel abroad would attempt to tip workers here to show that they knew the rules of Europe. Toward the end of that century, a powerful anti-tipping movement arose. It called the practice undemocratic and un-American, arguing that employers, not customers, should pay their workers. In turn, American restaurant owners and railway companies fought to keep the system on the grounds that tipping was a legitimate alternative to wages — especially since many of their workers were African-American, in many cases freed slaves whom these employers resented having to pay at all. One writer of the period noted that he could never feel comfortable tipping a white person, since the practice should be reserved for “Negroes.”"

Who Tipping Effects:
"The racialized element of the practice continues to this day: 53 percent of tipped workers in New York State are minorities, and 21 percent live at or below the poverty line. And most tipped workers are not fancy steakhouse servers; they are women working at places like IHOP, Applebee’s and Olive Garden. Based on American Community Survey data, the Restaurant Opportunities Centers United estimates that nearly 70 percent of tipped restaurant workers are women, 40 percent of whom are mothers."

Tipping and Sexual Harrassment:
"Worse still, this two-tiered system is the reason the restaurant industry is the single largest source of sexual harassment claims in the United States. Women forced to live on tips are compelled to tolerate inappropriate and degrading behavior from customers, co-workers and managers in order to make a living. So while restaurants employ about seven percent of American women, nearly 37 percent of all sexual harassment claims to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission come from restaurants."
Peter

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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#108 Post by L e o F r o k i c » October 18th, 2015, 11:29 am

NSFW

[youtube][/youtube]
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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#109 Post by PeterJ » October 18th, 2015, 5:54 pm

So he's going to raise the price of wines on his lists, by 20-30% or so, on top of what may already be a 300% margin? So that bottle I can buy for $50 at a wine shop will now be $125 instead of maybe $90??? What's he doing with corkage fees?
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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#110 Post by Fred C » October 18th, 2015, 6:54 pm

PeterJ wrote:So he's going to raise the price of wines on his lists, by 20-30% or so, on top of what may already be a 300% margin? So that bottle I can buy for $50 at a wine shop will now be $125 instead of maybe $90??? What's he doing with corkage fees?
Sorry. $50 wines are probably already at 125-175 in most high end places.
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Randy Bowman
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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#111 Post by Randy Bowman » October 18th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Carrie spent years as a waitress, bartender and restaurant manager. For years my check paid the rent and utilities, while her tips paid for food and daily stuff. Everything left over built the bank account. Carrie and I have no qualms about addressing bad service. When Carrie was working, she tipped her busboy and the cooks at the end of her shift. The tip is incentive from table to dishwasher.

We are so anal about it we tip at fast food restaurants and for delivered food. I tip at the drive thru of Carl's Jr. Any of you tip at a fast food place? Our order at Carl's Jr. is not directly off the menu because Carrie doesn't want onion, mayonnaise or salt and I have bacon on everything. I get lunch there once a week. In 7 years, there have been two mistakes. I've been to restaurants where the average dinner was $50+ and emblazoned on the menu is "NO SUBSTITUTIONS," the service sucked, they screwed up the order, then included an 18% "gratuity."
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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#112 Post by Brian Zamkotowicz » October 19th, 2015, 9:07 am

Chris Seiber wrote:
AndrewH wrote:
Alan Rath wrote:This is really bad for Berserkers. It will eliminate the semi-annual 20 page thread on what the proper tip should be on an expensive bottle of wine.
We'll discuss instead the fresh topic of "why should I pay for service on top of a corkage fee?"
Actually, does anyone know when these fancy restaurants go to no tipping whether they also increase their wine list prices and/or corkage fee? The logic would seem to be the same, though I somehow tend to think they don't do it. If the $90 wine becomes $110, that's probably a pretty big psychological difference to the customer notwithstanding the fact that you don't tip on it anymore.
I think this is a really great question. If a $30 entree becomes $40 and I know I don't have to tip I'm not going to be phased. If a $100 bottles goes to $130 I may just order something lower on the list (and Meyer's wine lists are currently some of the more reasonably priced in the city). Also if $15 martini becomes a $20 martini at the bar, I'd probably just go somewhere else for a drink. I'm sure beverage sales are a significant portion of profits at these places, and the way this is handled could make or break the policy as a whole.

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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#113 Post by Chris Seiber » October 19th, 2015, 10:02 am

I haven't gotten any reply since I sent the email on Friday. My email, in case you are wondering, was not critical or adversarial at all. I wrote the following:

++++

Hello. I have been following the story about the new no tipping policy and the compensatory price increases with much interest.

My question: are you changing either (1) your corkage fees or (2) your wine list prices as well? If so, is it to the same extent as the food, or to a different extent?

Thank you.

Chris

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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#114 Post by Jay Miller » October 19th, 2015, 10:28 am

Chris Seiber wrote:I haven't gotten any reply since I sent the email on Friday. My email, in case you are wondering, was not critical or adversarial at all. I wrote the following:

++++

Hello. I have been following the story about the new no tipping policy and the compensatory price increases with much interest.

My question: are you changing either (1) your corkage fees or (2) your wine list prices as well? If so, is it to the same extent as the food, or to a different extent?

Thank you.

Chris
It's possible they haven't decided yet. Assuming wine prices don't go up by 20% then I'd be more likely to order a higher priced bottle. I was always sort of annoyed at %age tips on higher priced bottles (though I acknowledged they were expected and therefore that's what I'd do) so my off the list purchases would go to the lowest end of the scale. I don't know if others are in that same camp.
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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#115 Post by Chris Seiber » October 19th, 2015, 5:11 pm

The logic would be that wine, beer, spirits, bottled water, coffee, and everything go up the 30-35%, since I think the vast majority of customers tip on those the same as food (notwithstanding the debates we have had about the theory of it over the years).

But I wonder if they're going to, or do it to the same extent.

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Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

#116 Post by Chris Seiber » October 20th, 2015, 3:33 pm

I was mildly surprised to receive a reply from Danny Meyer group, and then a reply to a follow-up email. The short answer - yes, they will raise wine prices, but not uniformly in the way of the food. And no, they haven't done any of this yet, the first of their restaurants (The Modern) to raise prices and eliminate tipping will be next month, then others will roll out the change one by one thereafter.

Here is the actual email exchange, unedited:


Thank you again!

Our online menus reflect their current prices, which does not include hospitality. Our first restaurant to embrace the change will be The Modern, in late November, and we will update their menu when Hospitality Included is officially “live,” and follow a similar model for each restaurant as they change over.

Please do continue to reach out with questions!



From: Seiber, Christopher
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 5:33 PM
To: Included, Hospitality
Subject: RE: Question about new tipping policy and price increases

Thank you for the reply. Do the current prices on your restaurants' lists reflect the increases, or are increases still forthcoming?



From: Included, Hospitality [mailto:hospitalityincluded@ushgnyc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 2:32 PM
To: Seiber, Christopher
Subject: RE: Question about new tipping policy and price increases

Thank you for writing Chris!

While our wine prices will increase along with Hospitality Included, it will not be uniform across the board. Wine and beverage is perfect example, and while we do expect our prices to increase, each glass and bottle will be evaluated to ensure we continue to deliver exceptional value to guests.

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