Is it just my imagination that prices on the secondary market are falling ?
Looking at range of wines on Winebid there are multiple listings for well know higher end US wines at release cost or even lower. Ive not seen Saxum listed at $70 for a long time or packs of Horsepower at $405 which is basically release price a few months ago these were in the $600 +range
Is it just a seasonal thing or is it a trend for lower resell generally
Long term trend…global deflation and aging, and supply over-capacity. Welcome to the Premier Cru business model, sell high and buy back lower in a few years.
Not the kind of wines I buy, so unaware of trends.
And haven’t looked at Winebid in a while.
But at least a small factor might be the increased vig at Wbid. As discussed in thread when they increased premium, it should (in a rational world) decrease bids.
Keep in mind Saxum at $70 is really about $96 delivered for a bottle when add the 17% and shipping.
The other interesting thing I’ve noticed is there are some wines on there with bids that can be bought at K&L right now for less. Auction fever…
That was the killer for me…17%, plus 10% sales tax, plus $3-$4 per bottle in shipping…it’s like adding another third onto the price. So a $75 bottle of wine is over $100 for us California folks. Too steep. Even if I was splurging on a bottle (and I have on winebid) that means that a $300 is almost $400 with everything added in and that is a HUGE gap from the price I am actually bidding.
I’ve definitely noticed that prices for the wines I’m interested in on Wine Bid are fairly soft. I’ve picked up a bunch of lower end burgundies at about 30% less than wine-searcher lows (even after factoring in the 17%). I had decided that I was out after the move to a 17% premium, but these good buys have lured me back in. I had wondered if this was a tactic on WineBid’s part, and whether it will last. Interesting that others have noticed the same thing on different wines.
Yup. Bid price plus 26% to get it to chicago.
I never make a bid for a bottle that will cost me more than release price. And i dont know how soft these are getting but i do see them on for a little longer.
I don’t look at winebid but it seems like the things I keep an eye on seem – ever so slightly – to be softening in price too. Mostly Old World stuff. Well except for Burgundy, which, like women and cats, remain inscrutable to me, and beyond my ken.
So I’ve been assuming the improved price environment for buyers has the USD strength. But maybe demand is weakening.
Maybe the slowdown in China is starting to ripple through in other ways.
I’ve noticed prices are dropping ever so slightly as bottles go unbid on over several weeks. This happens with vintage watches too - it’s a seasonal thing. Starting in late January, prices might start rising again as people are getting their tax returns back and competition heats up for desired bottles.
As far as the fees, just take them into account when making your bid. WineBid is 17% and Zachy’s is 22.5%. If I want to pay under $800 for a lot at Zachy’s, I’ll make sure I keep my bid south of $650. Voila!
It depends on what you’re buying. Ridge prices have jumped quite a bit in the past year for example. Sauternes prices are very attractive to me.
Weird, I never considered pursuing Saxum because its out of my budjet but happened to look the other day and saw the same $70 price.
What did those bottles sell for from the winery and why would they be for sale?
Are they sub par vintages for Saxum?
You can look up the reviews/pricing on Cellartracker, but the ones I saw were rated 93-94 ish with $89 release pricing.
I usually do a year-end cellar thinning Novemberish, every year. Typically a wide spectrum of styles and regions represented. I’ve used Winebid the last few years because they’ll take my ‘kitchensink’ consignments.
Prices this year across the board (styles/points/vintages/regions) are much softer than WMJ indicated via CT, and it is taking much longer than usual to sell through.
I don’t know if this is indicative of Winebid’s vig increase (they are making a killing coming AND going), or just another indication that consumer spending still hasn’t really picked up. Certainly no one is partying like its 2007…
Just from my limited browsing, yes, mostly. Cayuse is very soft on there, along with the other domestics mentioned, even some SQN interestingly. Champagne seems to be holding up ok, though there are some deals…most of the Burg I watch stays around long enough to have a price drop a time or three before selling.
Older Bordeaux seems high. I used to buy 70 and 71 Giscours for a lot less than what they’re asking now.
You do need to factor in the house percentage when comparing prices to elsewhere. But sales tax and shipping (if you’re having wine shipped) is something you pay on other purchases, too. Nobody buys a bottle from K&L and comments on WB that “really, that $80 bottle of Burgundy was a $102 once I paid sales tax and had it shipped to LA!”
Hey Jody, keep in mind that Wine Bid does not provide data to Wine Market Journal, so the numbers you see on CT do not take into account what Wine Bid is selling a particular wine at. As far as I’m aware, they are the only major wine auction house that chooses not to provide hammer data to WMJ.
Overall, Wine Market Journal indices have shown a soft market for a few quarters - for everything except Port and Burgundy (barely).
Well, it’s expensive to ship from Hollywood to LA.
I would.
Do we now need to start a K&L thread too?