Demeter Certified Winemaking

I was always under the impression that Demeter-certified BioDynamics just told you how to grow your grapes. I assumed that once you harvested your BioDynamic grapes, they didn’t care what you did after that. Turns out…that is not the case. They also tell you how to make your wine as well:
DemeterCertifiedWinemakingRules

This was a revelation to me. A few tidbits from their rules:

  1. “The wine must be made in a Demeter certified wnry.” Curious as to how BobLindquist/Qupe does this inasmuch as he shares space w/ JimClendenen, who is not Demeter-certified?

  2. “Concentration of must is not permitted”. Wonder how RobSinskey gets away w/ making his saignee VinGris de PinotNoir?

  3. “Acid & sugar adjustment is not permitted”. Wonder how the BioDynamic estates in Burgundy get away w/ not chaptalizing?

  4. “Only oak barrels…are permitted” for aging. Wonder how they get away w/ aging in redwood vats or concrete eggs?

  5. “Total maximum measured sulfites at bottling cannot exceed 100 ppm”. I can imagine that some of the sweeter Austrian Rieslings/GVs would be at risk at that low level?

  6. “Natural corks, screw caps, glass are permitted for closures”. Wonder why they permit screwcaps, which have a Mylar (plastic) insert in contact w/ the wine, but plastic containers for the wine is prohibited?? What about the composite corks that have cork crumbs bound w/ a plasticizer??

Anyway…all things that would make SweetAlice go ape-$hit over. My impression is that the Demeter association folks are pretty hard-nosed. They have the name BioDynamic trademarked and if you suggest you farm your grapes according to BioDynamic principles w/o being Demeter-certified (as a number of growers I know do), the Demeter Nazis will be coming after you. Wonder if you can get away by claiming you farm your grapes by “principals of RudolfSteiner” w/o fear of retribution?? Probably not.

Tom

Tom,

before going deeper into this topic, it seems important to point out that you describe the situation in the US, which isn’t the same internationally (maybe another surprise). As far as I know the name “biodynamic” is not protected in Europe (unlike organic) and anybody can use it whichever way they want. It follows that Demeter is but one of many approaches, there are others e.g. Biodyvin: Home

As one can freely profess following the precepts of biodynamic farming (which as far as I’m concerned seems to be a compilation of “best practices” from which growers can choose to apply one or the other or all or none…), few domaines have felt the need to be certified. Right now I’d say it’s mostly a way to be invited to some specific (in some cases prestigious) wine fairs (again, talking about Europe).

I think Tom is also mischaracterizing a few of the rules.

  1. Possibly they allow anyone working in a specific winery to have it certified?
  2. I would argue that saignee is increasing extraction, not concentration, as it allows for more phenolic compounds and anthocyanins in the must but not any change in sugar or acidity. Demeter probably agrees.
  3. Either surreptitiously or not at all?
  4. That’s not what it says, it says if oak aging is used, only barrels, staves, or dust are permitted.
  5. Very possibly, sure.
  6. Slightly different material, much less contact.

More importantly, who cares? Buy it or don’t, right?

2% of revenue goes a long way.

Hence the “before going deeper into this topic” [cheers.gif]

+1

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The last couple of days I have been sipping on a 2015 Gramenon ‘Poignee de Raisins’ [Cotes du Rhone] which is a Demeter certified wine, brought in by Kermit Lynch. Curiously, even though this came from the official importer, it appears to be wearing French red tax stamps, suggesting it was intended/bottled for the local market. This bottling is all grenache, from young vines, hand harvested with natural yeasts. Alcohol at 13.5% abv is low for the era, and the color is on paler side, to my eye. These are bottled with minimal sulfur, and my example already tastes faded/tired, with limited depth and flavor. Dom. Gremenon wins critic’s plaudits, and tends to be hard to find, but the few examples I’ve cellared from the late 90’s onwards have always left me underwhelmed. In my ledger, I’d give this a B-. I guess I’ll buy another bottling in 5-10 years when I have forgotten this experience.
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How so? Just curious.

Demeter wine:
https://www.weingutmuster.com/English

I once got a vineyard and winery Demeter certified biodynamic. It’s not that hard since all you do is make wine within the defined parameters and log all of your activities to demonstrate compliance.

This thread is six years old…

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Lol.

Afaik, La poignée de raisins is a wine to drink very young. Michèle Aubery Laurent recommends to drink it within 3 years after bottling. Current release is 2021, and a joyfull simple drink that doesn’t really need more than a few minutes of ageing…

Cuvée Pascal or Mémé are better options if one wants to age Gramenon wines.
To my taste, with proper ageing and storage (shipping conditions too), they are among the very few grenache based wines that can compete with the Reynaud team.
A magnum of '11 Pascal, shared with VLM a few weeks ago, was close to perfection.


Admittedly, my aesthetics concerning grenache was deeply influenced by Philippe Laurent’s wines along with Jacques Reynaud’s, of course, during the 80s and 90s.
Therefore, these are totally subjective opinions, coming from a true admirer of Michèle Aubery work, in continuity with her partner legacy, with, maybe, “un supplément d’âme”.

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They do not have the name biodynamic trademarked.

The have the phrase “Demeter Certified Biodynamic” trademarked.

*standard disclaimer: This not legal advice. If you want legal advice, pay me. I may accept payment in kind from certain producers at my discretion.


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