Laurent Ponsot is well known for being a late picker. Often reported as being the latest in Burgundy.
But in my (limited) experience with his wines (never a GC yet), they always have lots of tension and fruit which is just barely ripe.
Same experience yesterday with a Chambolle village (Cuvee des Cigales) 2014, quite untypical for the vintage which in my experience so far with other domaines has shown ripe fruit, freshness and density.
Can anyone explain the puzzle? Does he delay the ripening process with canopy management, or how does he achieve this?
This very issue was discussed few days ago when our wine group did a vertical of Keller Abtersde 2007-2014. Keller is also an uber late picker. It was said by the Austrlian importer that Kelller does retard the photosynthesis and hence the ripeness by leaf plucking etc etc (something to that effect). The wines displayed a lot of richness and intensity but the wines did show the requisite acid tension.
Hi Gilberto - I think context is everything.
I am a big fan of Ponsot’s wines, but over time I’ve learned that I get the best out of them, when drinking them alone. In this case they seem well balanced and voluptuous. If I mix Ponsot bottles with those of other producers, the ripeness of the very same wine can seem overbearing…
Just a thought…
I’ve only had his wines with other wines…and I’ve found that they always show well. The only GC I’ve had was from 2002 and it was tasted among 17 other wines, 6 other Pinots and while we were tasting it none of us even wanted to drink the other Pinots. They seemed too simple…but before opening it we were commenting on the complexity of them. To me, it highlighted the need for comparison of wines on a level I hadn’t previously experienced. I wish that I could afford more of his GC wines.
Bill, Sanjay, thanks for your replies.
Bill: “voluptuous” or “overbearing ripeness” are not words I would associate with Ponsot’s wines.
That is really the core of my puzzle, and I cannot imagine that in a different context things could change so much, but what do I know? Let me emphasize that my remark concerned young wines, as I have drunk only one bottle with some age, a Chambolle Charmes 1997, which was definitely not bordering with unripeness and beautifully silky.
Also: consulting the literature: there is not much about the ripeness issue in your book, Bill. Jasper Morrison mentions the very light color and the fact that “Minor years seem weak and almost dried out at the time of bottling but freshen up amazingly later on.” a description I could see fit my experience. Both Jasper and Clive Coates mention inconsistency as one of the characteristics of the domaine.
PS: I have to correct myself: I did try a GC, a Clos de la Roche 2013 at a large tasting, but it was only a sip.
Thanks, Kirk. The word “ripeness” did not show up in your post, so I guess that it wasn’t too much and not an issue for you either.
The GC was one of the most elegant wines from Burgundy that I’ve had. More so than a '70 DRC GE I had from magnum multiple times, some Leroy, and a few other marquee producers…so in the GC that I had I wouldn’t have called the wine ripe at all. However, I will say the 1er Cru Clos des Monts Luisants each time that I’ve had it would clearly fall in the “ripe” category…but it worked well for the wines and the dishes when I had them.
As others have stated, I believe the equation is much more complex than later harvest equals overripeness. I can think of two examples that highlight this. On the one hand you can look at Confuron Cotetidot, they’re routinely the last to harvest in Vosne, at least according to Yves. That said whilst the wines do have more “palate width” (for lack of a better term) than many of their contemporary counterparts I’ve not had one that was overripe or overextracted. I can’t help but think the 100% stem inclusion might influence this perception though.
On the other side of the spectrum on Friday night I opened a 2013 Geantet-Pansiot Bourgogne Pinot Fin. Respected producer to my knowledge and the bottle shop owner cut me a discount on the bottle to secure my purchase. Man, what a bad wine for my palate. Honestly if I was blinded on it I would have thought it was a new world Pinot and would have probably rolled out California as my pick. Over oaked (30% new apparently), over extracted, sweet, lower in acid than I was hoping; all the things I prefer to not be in my burgundy. Maybe their lack of use of stems doesn’t suit my palate? Apparently they’re 100% destemmed. I can’t find any data on when they harvest but I’d be blown away if they were one of the first to harvest annually in Gevrey.
That said it was a good learning experience. I’d never had a wine from Geantet-Pansiot and using the adage that “test drive someone’s bourgogne to derive their house style” seems quite appropriate here. I can’t imagine splurging on any of their other wines given the high cost of entry for their bourgogne combined with the low level of interest and satisfaction for my palate.
Andrew
IIRC, Ponsot only uses old oak. So I guess wines are ripe but not oaky and fresh. I have only tasted a few so I have very very limited experience.
Right. That makes more sense then. I suspect new oak is what puts me off most as it tends to mute or mask the more elegant fruit notes Burgundy can produce. Oak seems to be the antithesis of freshness to my palate, at least in youth.
Gilberto - for years I drank Ponsot at home - and still do - Ponsot is probably the largest producer in my cellar - without a problem (corks and even ardea seals excepted) - those descriptors come from when I foolishly took Ponsot bottles to blind tastings. I’ve stopped doing that - it can be quite shocking. I’m still very happy opening them at home - plastic corks excepted 
OK, I’ll have to do the experiment of bringing Ponsot wines to a blind tasting myself…
stopped buying Ponsot when he switched to his unproven plastic closures.
Thread drift but I thought interesting. From Livex Blog
Last week in an interview for Wine Spectator, winemaker Laurent Ponsot announced plans to leave the family’s Burgundy Domaine and establish his own winery in the region. In light of this recent news, Liv-ex has looked at the performance of Ponsot Clos Roche Vv over the past twelve months.
Year-on-year, the Ponsot Clos Roche Vv index – which tracks the performance of the ten most recent physical vintages – is up 25.4%. Its parent index, the Burgundy 150, is up a similar 25.9%.
As shown in the table below, the 2008 vintage has been the top price performer over the past year: it is up 71.4%. Despite this significant increase, it remains one of the cheapest vintages available on the market. The 2010 follows behind with gains of 36.4%. In November 2016, the wine traded at an all-time high of £4,958 per 12×75.
However, performance is not positive across the board: recent vintages 2011 and 2013 have dropped 10.1% and 13.5% respectively.
None of these come close to the heights of the acclaimed 2005 which has edged above £10,000 per 12×75 – a ‘wow’, wine, according to Allen Meadows (Burghound), with a price tag to match.
Over-ripeness is an interesting topic. In many years, France’s continental climate is cooling so quickly around harvest that this is not much of an issue. Allowing grapes to hang in very cool temps does not usually produce flavors of surmaturite or raisins. Meanwhile France is now experiencing many more earlier maturing vintages. These are possibly the best test of picking notions as it is possible to hang grapes to the point where they are super-ripe. So I wouldn’t expect a “late-picking” producer to show over-ripe flavors unless the vintage had warm weather after the more typical harvest dates.
You can always add acid.
Curious about this. Anyone else feel the same? Do you feel the same about DIAM? As I understand it he switched after a grand tasting where there was severe bottle variation. The technology is interesting for sure and has been around since the late 90s. Who has tasted Ponsot under the new closure and can lend a verdict?
When a winemaker does this (not that Ponsot does), are there options that have varying effects on quality? Like different ‘grades’ of acid or ‘better’ types?
Thread is well off the rails at this point, but:
I personally would be less likely to buy expensive reds with DIAM or plastic closures. I would like to see reports on if the closures affect the taste.
For white burgundy I generally only buy bottles for ageing from producers that use DIAM or that have a history of little to no premox (with a very few select exceptions), as premox is by far the greater risk.
You just use tartaric acid, which is found naturally in grapes (and just a handful of other fruits). I’ve never been in charge of buying acid but I’ve never heard anyone talk about varying quality of acids. You can use citric acid (found in minute quantities in grapes) but it can cause biological problems.
I don’t know the legality of adding acid in Burgundy, but it’s not rare at all in CA or OR.