The Second Tier in Burgundy

The absurdly priced wines of the First Tier of Burgundy are -way- out of my price range: Leroy, Roumier, DRC and the like, Meo-Camuzet and de Vogue as well. I’m not picking up any Cros Parantoux anytime soon. There have also been some offers of decent producers with small holdings in Echezeaux and Bonnes Mares and the like at $500/bottle when most of their 1er are under $100, basically because they can, especially in a 2015z

Wondering what folks’ sweet spot is for good Domaines with reasonably affordable 1er and GC’s for mid- to long-term cellaring. Assume GC reds under $250 (or Corton <$125) and good 1e in the $60-$125 range.

1. If you sell the wine, no plugging it
2. If you don’t want to say publicly, would love a PM
3. A second question about the “Super seconds” of Burg: Malconsorts, CSJ, Amoureuses, etc: any producers you think make an exceptional cuvee without the absurd price tag?

Are you saying this is a contentious topic?

Those prices sound more like 3rd tier now. Perhaps 4th in another vintage or two.
Unfortunately, I’m being sincere.

With Burgundy, everything’s contentious!

I was thinking about a similar 2014/2015 thread way at the other end of the spectrum. Marsannay, Savigny, Fixin etc.

I would also have to agree here. I wish I started buying Burgundy earlier. Basically all the decent producers I have access to have 1er’s that start around $125

Try Hudelot-Noellat and Henry Jouan to start with.

I buy both. Look forward to seeing these with some age…
N.

I think this is really the place to put most of your effort. I just had a Pataille 2014 Marsanay clos de Roy last night that is absolutely delicious. I’ve begun to think that it’s misguided to be chasing some third string producer who happens to have half a row of CSJ but who doesn’t really know how to make burgundy. You can spend a lot of money for mediocre wine that is disappointing and will always be that way in this manner.

+1000

On the other hand, there is an impressive number of producers, many of them young, with limited track records, in less heralded towns including the Cote Chalonnaise and Maconnais. Hard to sort through what is a good, what is mediocre, and what is likely to age well. They may be less expensive. The question is which are going to be hits, which are going to be flops, and if I buy two and they end up meh, would I have been better off spending twice as much on a Gouges Pruliers or something where I know what I’m getting… don’t know the answer to this.

I’ll actually answer your question.
Drouhin Mouches, Chevillon 1ers, Faiveley’s Gevrey stuff, Morot (great value), Jadot CSJ…this is where I mostly live, financially, and I’m pretty happy. Easily can find some with age, too, just get on the right lists…

Stylistically these can be very different, and I’m not sure what 2nd, vs 3rd, vs 4th would be but I would say these can be solid values in their specific villages:

Bertheau
Hudelet-noellet
Boillot reds
D. Laurent
L’Arlot (a touch spendy)
Bruno Clair
Lamarche
Pavelot
Serafin
Pousse D’or

I’ve been wondering about Morot, The wines I’ve had pre 2005 have been good, but after that they are getting very dense and more modern. I’ve continued to buy, but I’m concerned.

Mugneret, Fourrier, D’Angerville and N. Rossignol in cdb

I’ve only had them pre-2005, and mostly pre-2000, so I can’t comment on recent stuff.

I’m confused about what you mean by “second tier in Burgundy”…or what you’re really trying to accomplish.

I think of “tiers” in Burgundy as vineyards…and holdings. So, for example, Rousseau, which owns all grand crus is first tier. That they also make gteat wine from their holdings is corroboration of their status.

If you want to learn about Burgundy and its charms, you need to find some producers and get familiar with their whole range, not just grand crus/trophier wines. I would and have looked at producers over the last 35 years who make a whole range, with the grand crus the tip of their icebergs. I am not that intersted in only or mainly grand crus. I think most people learn little about Burgundy from them; limit themselves to such wines for some unfathomable reason, and then drink them so young, they are unlikely to reveal anything more than a simple villages wine would at the same age…if that.

“Tier” to some people is “trophies” ie, huge premiums in the markets for their wines. Your list of “1st tier” winemakers…for the most part…is not mine. It is a list of trophy wine producers…and probably focuses on the trophy wines. IMO, there is no real “value” in an economic sense…and less if you don’t give those wines a minmum of 20 years to reveal why they are trophies (usually mainly because their vineyards are “first tier.”

So, you need to figure out what you’re trying to accomplish before listening to any advice here.

I’ve never bought wines from most of the producers you list…and feel no regrets at all.

And, when I’ve bought wine from Roumier and Jayer/Rouget…at the wineries…I’ve made it a point to buy accross their boards…which has really educated me. (And, I consider both “top tier”).

I have a 1986 Roumier Bonnes Mares teed up for a birthday dinner tonight…and it tasted great when I cleaned the wine this morning. I bought it at Roumier in 1988! But…Roumier’s “Les Cras” Chambolle…is great wine…and shouldn’t be missed, too.

I think he wants “cherries” and wants them cheep.

Lumpp in Givry. No GC’s , but makes great value wines.