Nebbiolo Rose

I bought a few Cogno Barolo Riserva Bricco Elena 2010 a while back, which I understand is all Nebbiolo Rose. I’ve never actually had the wine, but I’ve enjoyed the di Gresy Martinenga, which I think is 20 or so percent Rose, for it’s perfume and sort of light-weight power. Does anyone have a feel for how the N. Rose ages–is it a typical barolo curve, or is there some other aging pattern?

The situation of Nebbiolo Rose and Rose Nebbiolo is very confusing. From Wikipedia:

and

So there’s a variety “Nebbiolo Rose”, distinct from Nebbiolo, and a clone of Nebbiolo “Rose Nebbiolo”. My understanding is the Cogno is from the separate variety “Nebbiolo Rose”.
Before they had Lampia/Michet, FPS distributed a Nebbiolo Rose for many yrs. Which one it is, variety or clone, I have no idea.
As for the aging pattern…I have no idea. But…hey…I’m a LosAlamos guy…we make stuff up!! [snort.gif] I would guess it pretty much like any
other Nebbiolo.
I’ll see if I can get clarification from Darrell.
Tom

I didn’t realize there was also Nebbiolo Rose. You sometimes feel that the Italians dream up alternative names for the same grape and confusingly similar names for utterly different grapes just to throw us off their trails.

Indeed, that is what the winery’s website indicates:

“Grape variety: rosé, a sub-variety of nebbiolo”

“We use the same nebbiolo clone (100% Rosè for many years now), cultivation system and yield, use of native yeasts, and aging in large
barrels.”

I saw that as well, John. But I’ve heard of clones being referred to as “sub-varieties” as well. So the interpretation
of that term may be questionable. It’s a bit ambiguous I think.
Tom

Ian d’Agata has Nebbiolo Rose as a 1st degree relative of Nebbiolo i.e. parent / child relationship.

Yes, Ian has it right. And D’Amato is the authority.

Tom - I didn’t read your post clearly and so my post is confused.

After reading Ian D’Amato’s entry (Native Grape Varieties of Italy, pp. 355-356), I think you and Wikipedia are mistaken, too. D’Amato says that the latest research shows that Rosé Nebbiolo is a distinct species. Michet, meanwhile, turns out to be just a virus-infected Lampia. The bottom line: There are only two types of nebbiolo – Rosé and Lampia, and Rosé is not just a variant. Rosé is either a parent to or a cross with Lampia.

Nebbiolo Lampia, at the current state of knowledge, has to be considered the main or ‘real’ Nebbiolo variety. Nebbiolo rosé is instead distinct from Nebbiolo (and hence I treat it separately in this book, as should every other wine writer), but it has a first-degree relationship with Nebbiolo.

Thanks, Ian. I was going to check out d’Agata when I got home. That’s such a good book,
maybe I should buy a 2’nd copy for use at the office!! [snort.gif]
Does it identify the other parent of NebbRose?
Tom

Technically they’re all cultivars, not varieties.

Jamie Goode explains: What is a grape variety? What is a clone? – Jamie Goode's wine blog

As I just edited my comment to say, Rosé is either a parent of Lampia or a cross with Lampia. But in either case, we don’t know what the other grape was.

For what it’s worth, D’Amato says that Cogno’s Rosé was from clone CN 111.

As I understand D’Amato, that was the established view but was shown to be wrong by research since 2000.

John,
Thanks for clarifying things. That’s very helpful. Just to NitPick…it’s d’Agata…which I’m sure you knew.
I pulsed Darrell on the question, but have not heard back yet.
Anyway…I’d love to try a Nebbiolo Rose sometime. I’m certain it’s a variety they should be planting
all up & down the Coast of Calif!! [stirthepothal.gif]
Tom

Bu#*er. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve made that mistake. Must be influenced this time by the fact that I was sampling amari on Tuesday. At least, that’s my excuse.

Yes, but no one has attempted to answer the question yet–how does N. rose (which is a different grape than the nebbiolo we’re familiar with) age?

I think it’s hard to answer because Cogno is the only winery bottling a 100% Rosé Barolo. D’Agata says that Marchese di Gresy’s Martinenga is 20-30% rosé.

Vietti Briacca was 100% Rose. It aged well. Tannins similar to typical Nebbiolo, color lighter, perhaps more fragrant and light on the palate. so the tannic bite might be more noticeable. Vintages from the 70s, I’ve only seen and had bottlings from the 70s, are at the very end of peak or on the downslope so from a very limited sample set I would say that they age more quickly than Lampia/Michet, but slowly enough. Modern tannin management probably yields a wine that has better balance as well. I sometimes find a little coarseness to the tannins of Walter’s Vigna Elena, but nothing that time shouldn’t polish out. I have some of the 2010 in my cellar and I will start drinking them on the same schedule as the rest of the 2010s. With a few exceptions, I plan on really revisiting the vintage starting in about 2025.

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The old Barbarescos from Enrico Giovannini-Moresco was made from nebbiolo rose. They aged well. Viettis Briacca is mentioned. Also Cascina Baricci makes one (I think 2005 was the first vintage) named Rose delle Casasse. This is a project trying to copy the style of Giovannini-Moresco.

The Baricchi is a lovely wine, typical Rose clone, light and elegant but also from 100 year old vines and 100 day fermentations making it a particular wine. Tannin management is excellent. Looking forward to watching them age.

So how were they? Greg–I presume you meant 2025?

D’oh! You are correct, sir.

I’ll go and change that now.

here’s Ian d’Agata’s note from the Vinous board:

It is a grape variety I know extremely well and that I have tracked down incessantly, in every single plot where I had heard it might still be growing, over the last thirty years. I for one think it’s an absolute tragedy that producers in Langhe have systematically done away with it over the years (starting in the late 80s while running after a model of richer, darker Barolos then more fashionable). Now of course most wish they had left their rows in, but it’s a matter of too little too late for many of them. Short of replanting it, that is.

In short, Nebbiolo Rosé’s profile is best summed up as perfumed on the nose, and austere on the palate. Over time, the eprfume tends to linger and expand (very strong rose petal note, which is strong already as it is in Nebbiolo proper) and an acidic spine that makes the wine seem rigd in its youth (perhaps more than just ‘seems’, as Nebbiolo Rosé does not express anywhere near the same amount of rich fruit that does Nebbiolo) but it opens over time to reveal sneaky concentration and richness. They are always wines of extreme refinement but my impression is they may age less long than those made with Nebbiolo (but it’s amatetr of ten years plus or minus, it’s not a s if the thing dies out after 8-10 years ). The main difficulty today in sizing up exactly what Nebbiolo Rosé can give is that there are very few producers making a monovareity wine from it, but Cogno of course is one of them. To give you an idea, di Gresy’s regular Barbaresco is apparently about 20% Nebbiolo Rosé (you can tell just by looking at the color) and it has no problem aging well. Hope that helps. Ian


Antonio also posted a comment about how much he loved the Vietti Briacca 1978 and posted his tasting note. the vines have all been pulled up and the land is now part of Rocche.