Roy Piper: After The Heatwave

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S. Stevenson
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Roy Piper: After The Heatwave

#1 Post by S. Stevenson »

Interesting account of the recent heat wave.

Last week we endured the worst heat wave since I moved here in 2005. We were warmer than Palm Springs, Phoenix or Las Vegas for much of the week.

Yesterday, after giving both vineyards three days to show the effects of the heat, I gave them a visit to see how Moulds and Houyi came through. It also gave me a chance to assess how the fruit is developing and predict when I might pick.

I increasingly realize these videos are more like podcasts than blogs. This one clocks in at 23 minutes but it covers a lot of ground. Hopefully you find time to take a look!
https://vimeo.com/232931932
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#2 Post by Jason Oliver »

Thanks for posting

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#3 Post by Nathan Smyth »

"The Optical Sorter" --- ?????

A) How much does that cost?

B) How much longer will ordinary folk have a chance at being employed at anything whatsoever?

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#4 Post by Michael S. Monie »

Nathan Smyth wrote:"The Optical Sorter" --- ?????

A) How much does that cost?
http://modernfarmer.com/2014/01/robot-c ... 2-minutes/
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#5 Post by Nolan E »

Nathan Smyth wrote:"The Optical Sorter" --- ?????

B) How much longer will ordinary folk have a chance at being employed at anything whatsoever?
The optical sorter replaces one, maybe two, unskilled positions. It's also another piece of equipment to clean, and to clean it properly (depending on which model you have) can take several hours, maybe negating any job loss.
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#6 Post by Michael S. Monie »

I seem to remember hearing that the optical sorter was designed for another purpose and was adapted for wine grapes.
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#7 Post by David Glasser »

The article Michael linked mentions 2 tons in 12 minutes, the work of 15 people sorting for an hour. A lot more than 1 or 2 workers, but perhaps the numbers vary greatly depending on the size of the crop, making it cost-effective only for larger wineries?

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#8 Post by larry schaffer »

Here's a big philosophical question though: how 'representative of what the vineyard provides' do you end up capturing when you use something like an optical sorter? We want to talk about terroir . . .
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#9 Post by Michael S. Monie »

larry schaffer wrote:Here's a big philosophical question though: how 'representative of what the vineyard provides' do you end up capturing when you use something like an optical sorter? We want to talk about terroir . . .
Would a hot dog be better if it included beaks and claws?
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#10 Post by Brian Tuite »

.
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#11 Post by M McCombs »

Is an optical sorter functionality different than DRC having a small army of hand sorters?

I do see the point. Sometimes things can be "too clean". First meal on my last propane grill was filets (wife wanted them) tasted like they were cooked in an oven. Next day cooked 2 dozen chicken wings, haven't had that problem since.
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#12 Post by Michael S. Monie »

From what I understand, an optical sorter can be set for any level of degradation one desires.
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#13 Post by larry schaffer »

Just because a berry has certain optical qualities does not mean it is 'better or worse' than other berries . . .
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#14 Post by R Roberts »

Roy, if you see this, thanks again for an exceptional and very educational video. I'm glad to see your blocks are more resilient than I would have expected!

And I'm not subscribing to this thread while you guys circle jerk on optical sorters.
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#15 Post by Craig G »

Michael S. Monie wrote:
larry schaffer wrote:Here's a big philosophical question though: how 'representative of what the vineyard provides' do you end up capturing when you use something like an optical sorter? We want to talk about terroir . . .
Would a hot dog be better if it included whole beaks and claws?
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#16 Post by Nathan Smyth »

Rama Roberts wrote:Roy, if you see this, thanks again for an exceptional and very educational video.
As usual, this video is simply beyond awesome.

I imagine someone could waste four years at UC-Davis Oenology and not get a fraction of the insights from a Roy Piper post at Wine Berserkers.

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#17 Post by Nathan Smyth »

David Glasser wrote:2 tons in 12 minutes, the work of 15 people sorting for an hour
This is what terrifies me.

I imagine that for a dedicated, conscientious employee, with an IQ in the 90s, or high 80s, something like working the sorting table for a high-end boutique winery could provide an enormous amount of satisfaction & fulfillment & sense of purpose in life.

But if the A.I. has advanced to the point that it can be trusted with sorting for a $150 to $300 Cal-Cab, then it won't be but another five or ten years until just about 100% of all vineyard management [year-round] will be performed by small armies of solar-powered spider-bots, crawling up and down the rows, from sunrise to sunset [and maybe all night, if the battery technology improves].

Humans need work in their lives.

Leisure & Sloth quickly drive people insane.

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#18 Post by Anton D »

Michael S. Monie wrote:
larry schaffer wrote:Here's a big philosophical question though: how 'representative of what the vineyard provides' do you end up capturing when you use something like an optical sorter? We want to talk about terroir . . .
Would a hot dog be better if it included beaks and claws?
Does a prime steak show less pasture character than choice?
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#19 Post by Anton D »

Does the best apple not fully represent the tree?
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#20 Post by Nolan E »

Nathan Smyth wrote:
David Glasser wrote:2 tons in 12 minutes, the work of 15 people sorting for an hour
This is what terrifies me.

I imagine that for a dedicated, conscientious employee, with an IQ in the 90s, or high 80s, something like working the sorting table for a high-end boutique winery could provide an enormous amount of satisfaction & fulfillment & sense of purpose in life.

But if the A.I. has advanced to the point that it can be trusted with sorting for a $150 to $300 Cal-Cab, then it won't be but another five or ten years until just about 100% of all vineyard management [year-round] will be performed by small armies of solar-powered spider-bots, crawling up and down the rows, from sunrise to sunset [and maybe all night, if the battery technology improves].

Humans need work in their lives.

Leisure & Sloth quickly drive people insane.
Grape sorting is necessary but neither fun nor stimulating, especially after 10 hours.
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#21 Post by Nolan E »

David Glasser wrote:The article Michael linked mentions 2 tons in 12 minutes, the work of 15 people sorting for an hour. A lot more than 1 or 2 workers, but perhaps the numbers vary greatly depending on the size of the crop, making it cost-effective only for larger wineries?
Neither of the optical sorters I worked with could come near 2 tons in 12 minutes, I don't know if a 'normal' sized destemmer could keep up with that at any consistency.
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#22 Post by Bud Carey »

Michael S. Monie wrote:I seem to remember hearing that the optical sorter was designed for another purpose and was adapted for wine grapes.
The folks at Kosta Browne told us that it was originally designed (in Switzerland) for potato chips.
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#23 Post by Robert.A.Jr. »

larry schaffer wrote:Here's a big philosophical question though: how 'representative of what the vineyard provides' do you end up capturing when you use something like an optical sorter? We want to talk about terroir . . .
Like.
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#24 Post by David Glasser »

OK I'll take the off-topic terroir bait.

Does being selective increase or decrease the degree to which you capture "what the vineyard provides?" The answer depends on how selective you are, ranging from leaving in all the MOG to using only those berries you deem perfect. That is a human decision, whether implemented via human or robot sorters. As are all of the other farming decisions that come prior to sorting the grapes. Which in turn means there is very little meaning to the concept of terroir built into the land/climate and no such thing as respecting the terroir. It's really all about respecting the traditions established by the farmers that preceded you.

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#25 Post by David Glasser »

Nolan E wrote:
David Glasser wrote:The article Michael linked mentions 2 tons in 12 minutes, the work of 15 people sorting for an hour. A lot more than 1 or 2 workers, but perhaps the numbers vary greatly depending on the size of the crop, making it cost-effective only for larger wineries?
Neither of the optical sorters I worked with could come near 2 tons in 12 minutes, I don't know if a 'normal' sized destemmer could keep up with that at any consistency.
Thanks. Two tons in 12 minutes sounded like a lot to me, but I'm not ITB and have no basis for reference. Sounds like they come in different capacities. Or the article just got the numbers wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

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#26 Post by mattcitrang »

What happens if you're in a labor crunch. ie everyone rushing to pick at the same time and the labor you depend on to sort is not available?

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#27 Post by Michael S. Monie »

David Glasser wrote:
Nolan E wrote:
David Glasser wrote:The article Michael linked mentions 2 tons in 12 minutes, the work of 15 people sorting for an hour. A lot more than 1 or 2 workers, but perhaps the numbers vary greatly depending on the size of the crop, making it cost-effective only for larger wineries?
Neither of the optical sorters I worked with could come near 2 tons in 12 minutes, I don't know if a 'normal' sized destemmer could keep up with that at any consistency.
Thanks. Two tons in 12 minutes sounded like a lot to me, but I'm not ITB and have no basis for reference. Sounds like they come in different capacities. Or the article just got the numbers wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
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#28 Post by Nolan E »

David Glasser wrote:
Nolan E wrote:
David Glasser wrote:The article Michael linked mentions 2 tons in 12 minutes, the work of 15 people sorting for an hour. A lot more than 1 or 2 workers, but perhaps the numbers vary greatly depending on the size of the crop, making it cost-effective only for larger wineries?
Neither of the optical sorters I worked with could come near 2 tons in 12 minutes, I don't know if a 'normal' sized destemmer could keep up with that at any consistency.
Thanks. Two tons in 12 minutes sounded like a lot to me, but I'm not ITB and have no basis for reference. Sounds like they come in different capacities. Or the article just got the numbers wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
I should clarify, I thought about this more and while the optical sorter might be able to do 2 tons in 12 minutes, that speed would likely be limited by the capabilities of the other equipment on the crush line. I'm sure equipment that fast exists but isn't likely being used by any wineries that have fans here. But I'm occasionally wrong ;)
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#29 Post by larry schaffer »

David Glasser wrote:OK I'll take the off-topic terroir bait.

Does being selective increase or decrease the degree to which you capture "what the vineyard provides?" The answer depends on how selective you are, ranging from leaving in all the MOG to using only those berries you deem perfect. That is a human decision, whether implemented via human or robot sorters. As are all of the other farming decisions that come prior to sorting the grapes. Which in turn means there is very little meaning to the concept of terroir built into the land/climate and no such thing as respecting the terroir. It's really all about respecting the traditions established by the farmers that preceded you.
Well, that is one way to look at it :-)

I really don't think there's a simple answer here. I just like to get the discussion going. There is no one who can tell me what percentage of 'imperfect ' material, big grapes or other stuff, leads to a negative impact on the finished wine. In fact, one may make the argument that by having some amounts of this in, you will end up with a more complex finished product ;)

Go at it, folks!
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#30 Post by Michael S. Monie »

Again, if these machines are set with photos to determine what passes through, then there would be no need to only allow 'perfect' grapes. From an economic perspective, I would think only using the best of the best would not make sense.
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#31 Post by Eric Lundblad »

Robert Alfert, Jr. wrote:
larry schaffer wrote:Here's a big philosophical question though: how 'representative of what the vineyard provides' do you end up capturing when you use something like an optical sorter? We want to talk about terroir . . .
Like.
I roast coffee (for myself, not commercially). There's a term 'eye cupping', which refers to lowering the cup quality/complexity by sorting the beans (green, preroasting) down to only the visually perfect beans (note, eye cupping has a couple of different meanings/references). Otoh, sorting is an important way of improving cup quality (done at the 'specialty coffee' level mostly)...so it's a bit tricky, and requires knowledge of the farm/village to do well.

Folks in Bordeaux have been using optical sorters for quite a while and discovered the same thing...that only using the perfect berries make a less interesting wine. Various domaines are experimenting with adding in various small percentages of stems to replace the stems & stem pieces that used to get added by the destemmer (I assume they endlessly tweek the parameters of what berries do/don't get through as well, of course).

And...very interesting video Roy!
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#32 Post by Mark Y »

A few us just spent a week in Bordeaux and saw a lot of the big names using Optical Sorters..
it doesn't replace hand sorting, it's often added as a 3rd sorting (after hand sorting pre and post de-stemming). It can really help on unripe years as it can be programmed to control size, color, weight.

Interestingly Ch. Margaux said they tried it and didn't like it and are moving back to hand sort only..
but many big names have these.. and i think it costs around 150-200K dollars each? (120-150 gbp if i remember right).
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#33 Post by Scott Wi3gand »

Optical sorting has been around for a very long time, I'm surprised that there is his kind of discussion around this concept. As with any technology that improves quality and efficiency, it would stand to reason that there is little downside for the consumer and the job losses are an expected part of mechanization.

I don't hear people lamenting the use of tractors because of all of the farriers that are now out of work. It seems like an unusual argument to me.

There is some controvesy surrounding the hand harvested versus machine harvested plus optically sorted grapes that I would like to hear thoughts on. There is an article below that could spark some debate.

http://www.asevcatalyst.org/content/cat ... 1.full.pdf

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#34 Post by Eric Lundblad »

The issue with mechanical harvesting is the grapes get crushed more compared to hand harvesting, making sorting (and mold handling issues) more difficult or less effective. Mechanical harvesting has gotten much better, not surprisingly.

Also, mechanical harvesting has certain requirements on the placement of fruit on the vine...which can limit the trellis/canopy strategy somewhat. And it's limited on hillside vineyards
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#35 Post by Merrill Lindquist »

mattcitrang wrote:What happens if you're in a labor crunch. ie everyone rushing to pick at the same time and the labor you depend on to sort is not available?
As one of the tiniest label-producing Cabernet vineyards out there, I can say that assembling a team to get you through picking, sorting, and crushing...it can be a challenge!

I select an ideal pick date, get the winery ready to receive the fruit, then get a commitment from a VM crew to pick and truck. If the winery is backed up at the crush pad, or the VM company has other vineyards to pick, then it become a series of negotiation. Then I kidnap friends, neighbors, relatives, customers...anyone. We sort at the bins, which means that we have 9 guys picking and dumping their pans into the 1/2 ton bins. As they are back picking more rows, I and my "quality control team" are working quickly to remove green leaves, brown leaves, and any clusters which don't make the grade. If in doubt we sample a berry from the cluster. Not good flavor in line with what we are picking? To the ground it goes.
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#36 Post by Merrill Lindquist »

Eric Lundblad wrote:The issue with mechanical harvesting is the grapes get crushed more compared to hand harvesting, making sorting (and mold handling issues) more difficult or less effective. Mechanical harvesting has gotten much better, not surprisingly.

Also, mechanical harvesting has certain requirements on the placement of fruit on the vine...which can limit the trellis/canopy strategy somewhat. And it's limited on hillside vineyards
Exactly. When I saw those machines picking for Sterling a few years back, it was pretty low-tech. I believe it was picked and crushed as one event - right in the vineyard. No sorting there! The next year was machine harvested, but hauled off to the winery for crush. This year they pulled the entire 14 acre vineyard and are in the process of replanting.

And yes, the type of trellising and placement of the clusters on the vine add complexity to the mechanical harvest issue.
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#37 Post by Scott Wi3gand »

Eric Lundblad wrote:The issue with mechanical harvesting is the grapes get crushed more compared to hand harvesting, making sorting (and mold handling issues) more difficult or less effective. Mechanical harvesting has gotten much better, not surprisingly.

Also, mechanical harvesting has certain requirements on the placement of fruit on the vine...which can limit the trellis/canopy strategy somewhat. And it's limited on hillside vineyards
As mechanical harvesters get more efficient with less damage to fruit and optical sorting to remove bad and/or damaged fruit, does it really hold true that hand harvesting results in higher quality wine? Other than impractical vineyards (hillsides, old vines, etc) and the limitations on canopy/trellising, do you think that the only difference in the end product is a percentage of good fruit loss (due to damage by the harvester) or do you think the end product would be lesser?

I personally think this evolution is coming and more high quality producers will be mechanically harvesting because of obvious financial benefits due to labor costs but also exact picking dates could me much easier to achieve. As Merrill alluded to, if you have to wait on a rental work force, you may have to compromise you picking date. Whereas mechanical harvesting could complete the pick in a fraction of the time and one could likely narrow their pick date down to a single night/morning.

Obviously not everyone will make that choice and for some it would be impractical or impossible. For those who will have the choice, I think more and more will make the switch even among very high end producers.

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#38 Post by William Segui »

In a year like this, optical sorting is a life saver. With the heat we have had, there is going to be sunburn, raisining, etc. The entire cluster may not be affected, maybe just the shoulder or one side. The growers aren't going to want to put that entire cluster on the ground, the vineyard management companies don't have the staff to do that kind of work right now and as a winery if you paid for it, you want to get what you can from it (50-80% of cluster may be unaffected). Hand sorting (by cluster) will likely end up throwing the entire cluster (if the interns are still awake and paying attention), berry sorting will likely miss a number of them (again: interns) - optical sorting is the best option (the settings & parameters you can set/program would blow your mind).

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#39 Post by Merrill Lindquist »

For my tiny ranch, it is definitely a hand pick/hand sort. My place (and my business) is not representative of the norm in any way.

As I left the winery after the final sort and crush, a new intern at the winery asked me which fruit was mine. I pointed to it. He said, "But there weren't any leaves in those bins." Correct.
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#40 Post by Mel Knox »

Michael S. Monie wrote:
larry schaffer wrote:
Here's a big philosophical question though: how 'representative of what the vineyard provides' do you end up capturing when you use something like an optical sorter? We want to talk about terroir . . .

Would a hot dog be better if it included whole beaks and claws?

Hot dogs don't include beaks and claws?? That's where the flavor is!

Larry,

Your question was first posed when the Bordeaux chateaux started to make second and third labels so the first label always tasted great...no more deals on off vintage Pichon Lalande, in other words. Certainly this changed the product in the bottle from the days when the pickers were hired three months in advance and did everything in a week or two. My first visit to Romanee Conti was in 1977. They were hand sorting grapes back then and nobody complained about a lack of terroir. I do remember visiting a producer with Zelma Long and others back then. He said he thought anything under 10 per cent rot was great and I could see Zelma bristle.

A lot of wineries, Kistler is one, go through the vineyards a day or two before harvest and drop all the bad fruit.

I am not surprised that optical sorters were not originally developed for the wine biz. Flash detente comes from the jam business.
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#41 Post by Roy Piper »

I saw my first optical sorter about 7 vintages ago. Frankly, they broke down a lot and I was not a fan. Then, about 4 years ago the new generation came out and I started to take a very close look. Three years ago the winery I crush at bought one and I watch it in awe. Now, I will not go to a winery without one. I will go even one further. To not own one (if you are a winery crushing at least 200 tons where sorting is used) is irresponsible, both for quality and financially.

Optical sorters take photos of everything that is on the sorting table. You can program it to remove anything you want. I watch over the process and each winemaker and lot can be specifically programed for. It blows out the material you want sorted berry by berry as they cascade into the bin. Since I make sure all fruit is already near perfect when it is picked, I only set the sorter to remove any stems, leaves or pips. Basically, green material. I doubt I have lost even 0.2% of my fruit the last two years. But in a year with shrivel, it would be a godsend.

The fact is, the new high minimum wages in CA (plus competition for labor from Mendocino pot farms making it hard to find labor at all), not even counting paperwork and FICA taxes and Obamacare mandates plus everything else our state puts in the way of hiring people has made technology move faster than it ever would have before.

Economically, when you have a 16 foot table with 8-10 people sorting on it, it can process maybe 1.5-2 tons per hour. Now, you can process 3-4 tons. And not only does this mean less overtime for the weary winery staff, but less money spent on labor and less paperwork. With staff being less tired, it leads to less mistakes and higher quality. Also, I have found that all these sorters tend to "look for something to do" and wind up sorting out fruit that should not be sorted out.

Instead of keeping a crew for 12-13 hours of monotonous sorting, they are home after 8. Less overtime. less labor. Better quality. It takes less time to clean, as the optical sorters are actually not large and your sorting tables are much shorter.

Optical sorters are here to stay. They are better, faster, more economical. It improves any wine it touches. Like I said, I will not crush in any facility without one at this point. It can cost $70,000 for those machines. But a busy winery can pay that off in a year in saved labor.

What's next? Well, more and more wineries are moving to automatic pumpovers. Soon you will not need interns to labor over all that work either. You just program it on your iPhone to pumpover when you want. Since the worst mistakes of harvest are that tired staff pumping a Cabernet tank into a Pinot tank by mistake in hour number 14 of their tenth straight day of work, or pulling off a valve by mistake and sending $70,000 down the drain in 30 seconds (that happened to me once), you now have each tank with its own self-contained pump, with no chance of disaster. And you can hone in your pumpovers to exact specifications.

Here is a video of my fruit being sorted using one two years ago. See the final result in the last few seconds of this video and decide for yourself. Oh, and optical sorters have gotten better since this video was made.

Last edited by Roy Piper on September 9th, 2017, 8:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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#42 Post by Roy Piper »

Mel Knox wrote:Michael S. Monie wrote:
larry schaffer wrote:
Here's a big philosophical question though: how 'representative of what the vineyard provides' do you end up capturing when you use something like an optical sorter? We want to talk about terroir . .
You can program the newest optical sorters to leave things in, not just remove things. Literally, you can program it to remove shot berries, leave in stems and remove snakes. Whatever you want. So you are able to decide for oneself what is and is not desirable to leave in or remove. Anything that a person could do.

For myself, I make Cab and I want EVERYTHING that is not fruit, removed. I am fanatical about nothing but 100% fruit. But if I made Pinot or Syrah, I could program it to leave brown stems and remove green stems. Or leave in both. Whatever.

I honestly cannot think of ONE downside of the best optical sorters. Except the big up front cost. Which is why I don't think it makes as much sense until you hit maybe 200 tons. I make 6 tons, LOL. But I crush at someone else's winery and luckily, they have the $$$ for it.
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#43 Post by Roy Piper »

Merrill Lindquist wrote:For my tiny ranch, it is definitely a hand pick/hand sort. My place (and my business) is not representative of the norm in any way.

As I left the winery after the final sort and crush, a new intern at the winery asked me which fruit was mine. I pointed to it. He said, "But there weren't any leaves in those bins." Correct.
The best sorting really does happen in the vineyard. Which is why I just remove green stuff the destemmer can't. But look at the speed it goes now! It's a huge benefit for the facility and for the people (those still employed, that is.)
Last edited by Roy Piper on September 9th, 2017, 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#44 Post by Roy Piper »

Nathan Smyth wrote:
David Glasser wrote:2 tons in 12 minutes, the work of 15 people sorting for an hour
This is what terrifies me.

I imagine that for a dedicated, conscientious employee, with an IQ in the 90s, or high 80s, something like working the sorting table for a high-end boutique winery could provide an enormous amount of satisfaction & fulfillment & sense of purpose in life.

But if the A.I. has advanced to the point that it can be trusted with sorting for a $150 to $300 Cal-Cab, then it won't be but another five or ten years until just about 100% of all vineyard management [year-round] will be performed by small armies of solar-powered spider-bots, crawling up and down the rows, from sunrise to sunset [and maybe all night, if the battery technology improves].

Humans need work in their lives.

Leisure & Sloth quickly drive people insane.
This is a very legitimate question and philosophical topic. I think about this a lot.

I still remember my 2010 and 2011 which I made in 1-ton plastic bins. I hand punched them down and even foot stomped. Those days are done for me. I still miss that experience. Kinda. I miss it in retrospect but in reality, I was so tired after those two harvests that in one case I went to the hospital with sciatic nerve issues.

Believe it or not, there is still romance at the wineries. Less? Perhaps. There are less people, for sure. But the quality is higher. If it was not higher, I would not use an optical sorter no matter what the savings and most I know would not, either.

There is one gal last year who did my pumpovers at the custom crush. She is back this year and I am very happy to see her because I feel safer with her doing them. She knows what I want and has experience now. If she had a series of 12-13 hour days sorting like a drone, I suspect she would never come back and that would be LESS romantic.

I feel the romance is a bit HIGHER in my case because I am getting a chance to work with the same people every year and in the end, this is a people business. So the technology is a mixed bag but perhaps a net positive.

But having been a worker drone for years during harvest, the technology is actually creating time to talk to your co-workers a bit more. And you are less exhausted. It's hard to connect with other people when you are dead tired. So from one angle, technology might be increasing the romance.

But what happens when no one is needed to make wine and it is like that movie "Silent Running" where its just one person and robots? There is a point where technology makes human connection less and less. I don't know where, but there will be a crossover point. I think that will be a much bigger issue for the generation after me.
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#45 Post by Chris Freemott »

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#46 Post by larry schaffer »

Roy Piper wrote: But what happens when no one is needed to make wine and it is like that movie "Silent Running" where its just one person and robots? There is a point where technology makes human connection less and less. I don't know where, but there will be a crossover point. I think that will be a much bigger issue for the generation after me.
In some ways, I think that threshold has already been crossed.
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#47 Post by R. Frankel »

Automation, assembly lines, machines replacing people ... this has been going on for centuries. Yes it seems to be accelerating now, but the world of work is getting automated. This is an unstoppable mega-trend. So it is our burden as a global society to figure out how to educate and organize people - of all ability levels - to lead productive fulfilling and enjoyable lives. This is what I think about when I worry about automation.

Don't blame industrialists, workers, capitalists, farmers, or business people for trying to make their businesses more efficient and products better. That's part of the inevitable.

By the way, I love both Roy and Merrill's wine.
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