The Official Screaming Eagle Waitlist Thread

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Bdklein
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#1 Post by Bdklein » September 27th, 2017, 6:29 am

1) What is the (approximate is ok) date you signed up for the mailing list?

2) When were you offered your first allocation?
Last edited by Bdklein on September 27th, 2017, 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#2 Post by Joe B » September 27th, 2017, 7:03 am

Signed up in early 2013

Still waiting and will be forever.
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#3 Post by Mike Walsh » September 27th, 2017, 8:04 am

1) What is the (approximate is ok) date you signed up for the mailing list? January 15 2013

2) When were you offered your first allocation? Still waiting

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#4 Post by mike pobega » September 27th, 2017, 8:09 am

If memory serves, it's about 7 years.

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#5 Post by Ralph George » September 27th, 2017, 8:11 am

I guess the Official (spelled with one L) Thunderbird waiting list thread is due soon.

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#6 Post by Joe Raymond » September 27th, 2017, 8:44 am

SIGNED UP: 1/29/2012
STILL WAITING.............
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#7 Post by Bob Paul » September 27th, 2017, 9:18 am

Signed up for the waiting on 9/9/2007. Still waiting.

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#8 Post by cjsavino » September 27th, 2017, 12:10 pm

You will need a helicopter
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#9 Post by Ralph George » September 27th, 2017, 12:32 pm

cjsavino wrote:You will need a helicopter
Is that better than a limousine with a trailer hitched to it?

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#10 Post by AdamLeigh » September 27th, 2017, 2:17 pm

Signed up 8/9/2008 and no allocation

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#11 Post by George Chadwick » September 27th, 2017, 3:01 pm

Caymus Special Selection in 1985 was 125 cases. The lesser wine, Caymus Napa was all estate fruit. Lesser than that was Caymus Cuvee, from a mix of sources. I believe but am not certain the SS is now 4000 cases including those sent straight to Japan. The Napa is a mix of sources. There is no Cuvee.

That's all fine, because they are not advertising either as rare wines. My point is, that's the natural progression of things.

When Screaming Eagle started it was 225 cases, actually less than that was actually sourced from the SE vineyard in 1992.
Does anyone know the current and planned actual case production, or whether the acreage that is earmarked, for the flagship wine, has increased? I have no idea.
Last edited by George Chadwick on September 27th, 2017, 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#12 Post by MICHAEL C R O M W E L L » September 27th, 2017, 3:15 pm

1). Approximate date=Today right after I saw this thread
2). STILL waiting
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#13 Post by T. Altmayer » September 27th, 2017, 3:27 pm

I got my first offering for the 2011 vintage and it was over a ten year wait at that time
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#14 Post by Mark Y » September 28th, 2017, 3:09 am

2008 fall I believe. Obviously still waiting.
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#15 Post by Joe B » September 28th, 2017, 4:27 am

George Chadwick wrote:Caymus Special Selection in 1985 was 125 cases. The lesser wine, Caymus Napa was all estate fruit. Lesser than that was Caymus Cuvee, from a mix of sources. I believe but am not certain the SS is now 4000 cases including those sent straight to Japan. The Napa is a mix of sources. There is no Cuvee.

That's all fine, because they are not advertising either as rare wines. My point is, that's the natural progression of things.

When Screaming Eagle started it was 225 cases, actually less than that was actually sourced from the SE vineyard in 1992.
Does anyone know the current and planned actual case production, or whether the acreage that is earmarked, for the flagship wine, has increased? I have no idea.
From memory when I brought this up a while back in regards to Realm Absurd, they were making about 500-800 cases.

<Edited case production number for 2017>
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#16 Post by Dennis Borczon » September 28th, 2017, 5:22 am

The calculus is easy. When the cost of the wine released from the winery approaches 75% of the cost of the wine at auction, you will be granted access. To prove my point, try signing up for Harlan Estate this year. You will be able to buy in a flash. The cost of SE at release is still roughly 50% of the cost at suction or the open market.

Harlan pushed the envelope of release price to the point where in a lot of cases you can buy recent releases for less than current vintage price. I wonder where they are storing all those unsold bottles of wine? I cannot believe they sell completely through each vintage at the current market price and with their production levels. Of course I'm not a multi millionaire either, must be nice not having to worry too much about actual profitability vs image of the wine.

Better yet, just go out and get some of the tremendous stuff from a dozen wineries here in Berserkerdom that can actually be obtained for less than a king's ransom? The gap between SE and many, many other wineries has narrowed over the years to the edge of a razor. Anyone want to organize a blind tasting of current darlings with SE and post results? I am in...

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#17 Post by Nolan E » September 28th, 2017, 8:00 am

George Chadwick wrote: When Screaming Eagle started it was 225 cases, actually less than that was actually sourced from the SE vineyard in 1992.
Does anyone know the current and planned actual case production, or whether the acreage that is earmarked, for the flagship wine, has increased? I have no idea.
And I believe the grapes from 1991 went to Paradigm.
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#18 Post by S. Stevenson » September 28th, 2017, 9:58 am

2006, still waiting, but will pass when offered.
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#19 Post by Tom Gutting » September 28th, 2017, 12:25 pm

I signed up in, I believe, 2004, and my first vintage on the list was 2012. It took a long time, and they even called to inform me that the price had increased appreciably and asked if I still was interested.

I was still interested.
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#20 Post by Robert M yers » September 29th, 2017, 8:46 am

When I first started exploring wine circa 1999-00, I sent 3 initial requests to be added to mailing lists. Alban and Cayuse quickly sent me mailers to purchase, screaming eagle sent me Email letting me know the list was so long they weren't even adding people to the wait list any longer. I wish I would have pressed harder at that time to get added. I might not still be buying but probably would have at prices a few years ago.

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#21 Post by Robert M yers » September 29th, 2017, 8:52 am

When I first started exploring wine circa 1999-00, I sent 3 initial requests to be added to mailing lists. Alban and Cayuse quickly sent me mailers to purchase, screaming eagle sent me Email letting me know the list was so long they weren't even adding people to the wait list any longer. I wish I would have pressed harder at that time to get added. I might not still be buying but probably would have at prices a few years ago.

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#22 Post by Craig G » September 29th, 2017, 10:35 pm

I hope this question isn't taken the wrong way. I'm honestly interested in your answers. Speaking for myself, I would be interested to try SE but the price is just out of any reasonable range for me. For those who are on the wait list, are you anticipating drinking all the bottles, flipping some, flipping all, opening in shared cost tastings, opening in BYO tastings, etc?
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#23 Post by George Chadwick » September 29th, 2017, 10:45 pm

Craig I am taking your question the wrong way. To take it the right way would be merely expedient and cynical and would lack integrity.

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#24 Post by Bdklein » September 30th, 2017, 12:12 am

Craig G wrote:I hope this question isn't taken the wrong way. I'm honestly interested in your answers. Speaking for myself, I would be interested to try SE but the price is just out of any reasonable range for me. For those who are on the wait list, are you anticipating drinking all the bottles, flipping some, flipping all, opening in shared cost tastings, opening in BYO tastings, etc?
IDK. I will make the decision if and when I get a bottle allocated to me.
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#25 Post by Scott G r u n e r » September 30th, 2017, 9:32 am

Does anyone actually drink screaming eagle? I just assumed it is only for display and traded/sold over and over again.
//Cynic

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#26 Post by John Morris » September 30th, 2017, 9:35 am

Image
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#27 Post by David H. » September 30th, 2017, 10:04 am

S. Stevenson wrote:2006, still waiting, but will pass when offered.
What is the reasoning here? Why not respectfully remove yourself to open a slot for someone else?
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#28 Post by Jonathan Sirot » September 30th, 2017, 12:27 pm

Craig G wrote:I hope this question isn't taken the wrong way. I'm honestly interested in your answers. Speaking for myself, I would be interested to try SE but the price is just out of any reasonable range for me. For those who are on the wait list, are you anticipating drinking all the bottles, flipping some, flipping all, opening in shared cost tastings, opening in BYO tastings, etc?
Craig
Although I understand flipping might be tempting considering secondary market, if and when you make the list, I would NOT recommend it as they will kick people off of the list that they catch doing so. I believe they number the bottles too

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#29 Post by Humberto Dorta » September 30th, 2017, 7:18 pm

Ive drank most vintages of screamjng eagle. Mostly at tastings so people do drink it. I passed on mg first offer a few years ago, though I have an 02 that I got in a trade. It too will be drunk unless I need money urgently...
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#30 Post by Craig G » September 30th, 2017, 7:21 pm

Jonathan Sirot wrote:
Craig G wrote:I hope this question isn't taken the wrong way. I'm honestly interested in your answers. Speaking for myself, I would be interested to try SE but the price is just out of any reasonable range for me. For those who are on the wait list, are you anticipating drinking all the bottles, flipping some, flipping all, opening in shared cost tastings, opening in BYO tastings, etc?
Craig
Although I understand flipping might be tempting considering secondary market, if and when you make the list, I would NOT recommend it as they will kick people off of the list that they catch doing so. I believe they number the bottles too
I'm not on the list!
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#31 Post by John Morris » September 30th, 2017, 7:59 pm

Humberto Dorta wrote:Ive drank most vintages of screamjng eagle. Mostly at tastings so people do drink it. I passed on mg first offer a few years ago, though I have an 02 that I got in a trade. It too will be drunk unless I need money urgently...
But I guess few people can afford to drink it over dinner with a few friends.
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#32 Post by johnbonds » September 30th, 2017, 8:29 pm

Literally everybody I know who was once on the Screagle list played the whole flip 2 bottles and keep 1 for free game. Like others have already said, once the price gets to a certain point, you'll get on. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has tried it and wondered what the big deal was. Lots of worthy competition at that price point. Hence all the peeps saying they'll pass once offered. #notworthit
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#33 Post by Jim Clary » October 2nd, 2017, 10:40 am

Scott G r u n e r wrote:Does anyone actually drink screaming eagle? I just assumed it is only for display and traded/sold over and over again.
We have been on the list since the 1999 vintage. Have never sold or flipped a bottle. We do drink them on special occasions.

I think I only waited a couple of years on the waiting list, but that may have been from our support of Auction Napa Valley. That has opened a lot of doors that might otherwise have taken far longer.
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#34 Post by Tom Gutting » October 3rd, 2017, 5:42 am

Jonathan Sirot wrote:
Craig G wrote:I hope this question isn't taken the wrong way. I'm honestly interested in your answers. Speaking for myself, I would be interested to try SE but the price is just out of any reasonable range for me. For those who are on the wait list, are you anticipating drinking all the bottles, flipping some, flipping all, opening in shared cost tastings, opening in BYO tastings, etc?
Craig
Although I understand flipping might be tempting considering secondary market, if and when you make the list, I would NOT recommend it as they will kick people off of the list that they catch doing so. I believe they number the bottles too
The bottles are numbered. Very active tracking system. But hard to control the secondary market regardless, as auctions lots show.
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#35 Post by George Chadwick » October 3rd, 2017, 4:07 pm

Jim Clary wrote:
Scott G r u n e r wrote:Does anyone actually drink screaming eagle? I just assumed it is only for display and traded/sold over and over again.
We have been on the list since the 1999 vintage. Have never sold or flipped a bottle. We do drink them on special occasions.
Me too, mostly, but it's over now. Started with the 1992, my one bottle of which I agreed to sell in my 2002 divorce. Three bottles a year starting with the 1993. SE always won blind and nonblind cab tastings for me. Masculine feminine yin yang with an endless pretty finish. I once brought a bottle, mid90s vintage, to a small informal dinner at a restaurant. There was a woman there I didn't know. I dumped it into a decanter. She said "nice to see someone actually drinks it." It turned out to be Ms. Philips, the founder and then owner. Already it had become a commodity. A couple of years ago I had an informal dinner in SF for Chris Ringland. I brought three great wines he had made and a 2001 SE. Both it and an SQN someone brought weren't empty at the end. Not because of quality but because when you get to a certain level of quality they're all equally great if showing well. Maybe no such thing as $1000 super-great.

I tried really hard over the years not to consider what the bottles were worth if I sold them. It was hard because that is the accurate math of what you lose by drinking them. I stopped buying when the price -- my mailing list price, not the auction price -- exceeded anything close to what the wine, or almost any wine, was worth it to me to drink. I still haven't had, or bought, 1989 Haut Brion or 1990 La Tache.

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#36 Post by Tony Jones » October 28th, 2017, 8:36 pm

Signed up in 2015. Hope to make it before I leave this earth

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#37 Post by Craig G » October 29th, 2017, 2:09 am

Tony Jones wrote:Signed up in 2015. Hope to make it before I leave this earth
You might want to sign up for a cryonics list too.
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#38 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 29th, 2017, 6:43 am

George Chadwick wrote:
Jim Clary wrote:
Scott G r u n e r wrote:Does anyone actually drink screaming eagle? I just assumed it is only for display and traded/sold over and over again.
We have been on the list since the 1999 vintage. Have never sold or flipped a bottle. We do drink them on special occasions.
Me too, mostly, but it's over now. Started with the 1992, my one bottle of which I agreed to sell in my 2002 divorce. Three bottles a year starting with the 1993. SE always won blind and nonblind cab tastings for me. Masculine feminine yin yang with an endless pretty finish. I once brought a bottle, mid90s vintage, to a small informal dinner at a restaurant. There was a woman there I didn't know. I dumped it into a decanter. She said "nice to see someone actually drinks it." It turned out to be Ms. Philips, the founder and then owner. Already it had become a commodity. A couple of years ago I had an informal dinner in SF for Chris Ringland. I brought three great wines he had made and a 2001 SE. Both it and an SQN someone brought weren't empty at the end. Not because of quality but because when you get to a certain level of quality they're all equally great if showing well. Maybe no such thing as $1000 super-great.

I tried really hard over the years not to consider what the bottles were worth if I sold them. It was hard because that is the accurate math of what you lose by drinking them. I stopped buying when the price -- my mailing list price, not the auction price -- exceeded anything close to what the wine, or almost any wine, was worth it to me to drink. I still haven't had, or bought, 1989 Haut Brion or 1990 La Tache.
George -

I cannot recall if you enjoy Bordeaux, but if you do, given your willingness to buy these uber-expensive wines, you owe it to yourself to try that 89 Haut Brion. It's phenomenal. Or find someone with a wine like that, and offer to pop a Screaming Eagle with them. I have a buddy that buys Screaming Eagle. I have had it in flights with mature, perfect to near-perfect Bordeaux, including with 82 and 86 Mouton, and an 89 Petrus, and the Bordeaux win every time. Could be the difficulty of comparing mature to a Cab that is only 5-7 years of age, but for me it's an easy choice.
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#39 Post by Richard Albert » October 29th, 2017, 9:05 am

Sorry for this late to the party input regarding Caymus SS data.
The 1984 production went up to 1000 cases with wine in Limousin oak for 48 months.
Starting in 1985 the production went up a couple of hundred cases and the time in oak diminished, a trend which saw both of these trends continue in the same directions over time.
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#40 Post by Michael Manix » October 29th, 2017, 9:43 am

I am an Arsenal man. And not a buyer at any price.

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#41 Post by B. Buzzini » October 29th, 2017, 9:54 am

Screagle seems to be heating up again on Winebid, as all lots offered are getting multiple bids and are as high as I've ever seen them. 97 is over 4k(with comm), 07 3k, 10 pushing that way, and everything else 2k+. "Napaj6" always seems to want them all? What's fueling this?
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#42 Post by Jim Clary » October 29th, 2017, 11:09 am

Robert Alfert, Jr. wrote:
George Chadwick wrote:
Jim Clary wrote:
We have been on the list since the 1999 vintage. Have never sold or flipped a bottle. We do drink them on special occasions.
Me too, mostly, but it's over now. Started with the 1992, my one bottle of which I agreed to sell in my 2002 divorce. Three bottles a year starting with the 1993. SE always won blind and nonblind cab tastings for me. Masculine feminine yin yang with an endless pretty finish. I once brought a bottle, mid90s vintage, to a small informal dinner at a restaurant. There was a woman there I didn't know. I dumped it into a decanter. She said "nice to see someone actually drinks it." It turned out to be Ms. Philips, the founder and then owner. Already it had become a commodity. A couple of years ago I had an informal dinner in SF for Chris Ringland. I brought three great wines he had made and a 2001 SE. Both it and an SQN someone brought weren't empty at the end. Not because of quality but because when you get to a certain level of quality they're all equally great if showing well. Maybe no such thing as $1000 super-great.

I tried really hard over the years not to consider what the bottles were worth if I sold them. It was hard because that is the accurate math of what you lose by drinking them. I stopped buying when the price -- my mailing list price, not the auction price -- exceeded anything close to what the wine, or almost any wine, was worth it to me to drink. I still haven't had, or bought, 1989 Haut Brion or 1990 La Tache.
George -

I cannot recall if you enjoy Bordeaux, but if you do, given your willingness to buy these uber-expensive wines, you owe it to yourself to try that 89 Haut Brion. It's phenomenal. Or find someone with a wine like that, and offer to pop a Screaming Eagle with them. I have a buddy that buys Screaming Eagle. I have had it in flights with mature, perfect to near-perfect Bordeaux, including with 82 and 86 Mouton, and an 89 Petrus, and the Bordeaux win every time. Could be the difficulty of comparing mature to a Cab that is only 5-7 years of age, but for me it's an easy choice.
I think you got it right. Napa and Bordeaux don’t generally compare well, IMO. ‘89 Haut-Brion is a reference point wine for me, perhaps one of the greatest wines I have ever drunk. Never had a bad bottle. I tend to view Napa cabs versus Bordeaux similarly to how I view other varietal comparisons, such as Syrah versus Pinot Noir. Depends what I am in the mood for, or perhaps what what we are pairing it with. I love great Bordeaux, and I love great Napa cabs. I just wish they hadn’t evolved into a luxury good, but that ship has sailed.
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#43 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » October 29th, 2017, 11:13 am

Jim, we ought to start a thread on that: what is "the" reference point Bordeaux?

It could be that '89 Haut Brion. I have enjoyed a few others more, but that 89 is a perfect reference point for Bordeaux.
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#44 Post by Chris Freemott » October 29th, 2017, 3:16 pm

I’ve been a benefactor of Mr Clary’s generosity. It’s a lovely wine. Though it cannot touch an evening with wonderful people. In Jim’s case, I was lucky to have both.

Chase memories and friends. Not bottles.

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#45 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » October 29th, 2017, 3:43 pm

Robert Alfert, Jr. wrote:Jim, we ought to start a thread on that: what is "the" reference point Bordeaux?

It could be that '89 Haut Brion. I have enjoyed a few others more, but that 89 is a perfect reference point for Bordeaux.
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The Official Screaming Eagle Waitlist Thread

#46 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 29th, 2017, 3:43 pm

I have had Screagle three times. There is no way it is worth the expense. Maybe once, just to try it, but after that, heck no.

Buy Bevan and save a ton of money.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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The Official Screaming Eagle Waitlist Thread

#47 Post by Jim Clary » October 29th, 2017, 6:18 pm

Chris Freemott wrote:I’ve been a benefactor of Mr Clary’s generosity. It’s a lovely wine. Though it cannot touch an evening with wonderful people. In Jim’s case, I was lucky to have both.

Chase memories and friends. Not bottles.
What a lovely post. Thank you.

Hope you are well. Miss those fun dinners in Chicago. And as I recall, you were pretty damn generous yourself!
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The Official Screaming Eagle Waitlist Thread

#48 Post by Jim Clary » October 29th, 2017, 6:21 pm

Robert Alfert, Jr. wrote:Jim, we ought to start a thread on that: what is "the" reference point Bordeaux?

It could be that '89 Haut Brion. I have enjoyed a few others more, but that 89 is a perfect reference point for Bordeaux.
That would be a fun thread. For me, I would add ‘89 La Mission Haut-Brion and ‘90 Cheval Blanc to my list. ‘70 Petrus might make an appearance as well.
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The Official Screaming Eagle Waitlist Thread

#49 Post by Jim Friedman » October 30th, 2017, 5:38 am

I would add 1953 Margaux and 1961 Latour. I would second 1970 Petrus and the 71 was great too.

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The Official Screaming Eagle Waitlist Thread

#50 Post by David Glasser » October 30th, 2017, 6:39 am

I was on the Screagle list since the 1994. Usually drank 1 or 2 and sold the others. Great wine and easily worth it in that scenario. Eventually dropped off the list because there were easier ways to get a similar experience without the up front cash and the hassle of flipping. Bevan, Shafer Hillside, etc.

Reference point Bordeaux? I Have had the 89 Haut Brion a few times and will not argue with anyone claiming this is as good as Bordeaux gets. I’m happy to still have a few in the cellar. I would also add to the list, in no particular order:
1990 Margaux
1970 Petrus
1989 Petrus
1990 Petrus
1982 Latour
1959 Lafite - this was easily the best Bordeaux I’ve ever had. But a good bottle with reliable provenance is unobtainable at this point, so hard to use it as a reference.

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