What would you do? "Temperature Controlled Shipping"

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TBurklow
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What would you do? "Temperature Controlled Shipping"

#1 Post by TBurklow » May 18th, 2018, 11:46 am

Cliffs notes:

I ordered about 4 cases of wine from a shop a few months back and asked for them to be shipped, and they responded back with the fact that they ship temperature controlled, and that timing therefore doesn't matter.

Not wanting to be a pest, I just said ok.

Well, wine arrives yesterday a little after 5:30pm on a standard UPS truck and it is in the mid 80s, sunny, and humid...felt like low 90s. I asked the sweaty driver if his truck was temperature controlled, and he laughed and said, "yeah, it's constantly hot if that is what you mean". I asked when my packages were put on the truck and he said they had been on the truck all day. Earlier in the week it was in the low 90s, but not sure if they were exposed to that.

Anyways, some of the corks are raised. Not all of them. No leakage that I can tell. Bottles were not cool to the touch, but not really hot either. Just a little warm.

I emailed the retailer and got the response....

Tyler,

1) The wines are sent to the temperature controlled hub In Illinois from Napa in a temperature controlled truck. The last leg is in standard UPS trucks but the wines are cool when they leave the warehouse in the morning.
2) The drivers have no idea what happened to the wine before they get it.
3) We use the best and most expensive insulated shippers (styrofoam) to ensure that the wine stays cool on the last day.
4) I've had wine delivered to me in the summer (I am always the last to get my wine in spring ship and fall shio and have had my wine shipped in high heat (mid to late Jun) or freezing cold (late December early January) every ship since inception to New York and I've never tasted a bottle with heat damage or cold damage when it was shipped in styro. Which is why we use styro. Always cold to the touch at Chelsea Wine Storage as I always ask.
5) If wine is shipped in standard small wine boxes that are NOT insulated using the mill carton material, you can most certainly have a problem especially if it is shipped on a long haul truck for multiple days.

Whatever you do, please do not taste your wine within 3 and preferably 6 weeks to see how it is. It is in bottle shock and will certainly taste like garbage. Burgundies are particularly susceptible. Whites less than reds, but waiting is key.


I'm wishing I would have insisted they ship when we had clear shipping windows over the past 3 months, but don't want to be a pest.

My first time running in to this in years of wine purchasing.

Looking for advice.
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#2 Post by Anton D » May 18th, 2018, 11:55 am

You've been had and handled.

I think you can taste "fully cooked" upon arrival, so pop the most worrisome bottle and see.
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#3 Post by John Kight » May 18th, 2018, 1:47 pm

I suspect the wines are perfectly fine. My experience is that it takes more than one afternoon in a hot car for wines in Styrofoam packing to warm up. (I actually tested this once with wine bottles of water, placed in my hot car, with a temperature sensor inside one of the styro sleeves, next to a bottle of water. The temp inside did not change more than 3-4 degrees over a period of about 5 hours in the sun.

The only thing you say that concerns me is that the corks are pushed up. If they are, in fact, pushed out of the bottle (through the foil), then I would be very worried, although in that case I would expect that you'd have wine seeping out of the bottles as well...But if you are just saying the corks aren't 100% flush with the glass, and are a few millimetres "up" from flush, that is not very rare to see in perfectly well-stored wines.

As per the prior post, I would probably just taste one of the bottles with the pushed up corks and see what you get (and whether, when you remove the cork, you see any signs of seepage).

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What would you do? "Temperature Controlled Shipping"

#4 Post by Neal.Mollen » May 18th, 2018, 1:53 pm

You asked that it be shipped when the weather was cool and were told no because it would be shipped temp controlled. It wasn't, at least that last leg, and the bottles (some of them) were showing signs of the heat. The first fact to me is the most important. I'd ask to return them
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#5 Post by Doug Schulman » May 18th, 2018, 2:09 pm

I agree with Neal.

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What would you do? "Temperature Controlled Shipping"

#6 Post by J Wei » May 18th, 2018, 2:13 pm

Tyler, I wouldn't be thrilled about what happened. If the retailer said "it will be shipped in a temperature controlled vehicle" I would expect it to be delivered from the retailer to me in a temperature controlled vehicle. The fact that it was UPS at the last leg, means that it wasn't what the retailer said.

I've always insisted on shipping when I feel comfortable, and if the retailer insists shipping during a time where I felt it was too warm (regardless if it's on their end or mine), I would probably not make the purchase. In my experience, most retailers would hold for a reasonable time period.

Maybe ask the retailer if you set them aside for 3-6 weeks as he suggested, and then popped a bottle and it tasted heat damaged, could you return all the wine?
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#7 Post by Paul Luckin » May 18th, 2018, 2:19 pm

Q: did the retailer utilize the UPS Summer Shipping Solution?
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What would you do? "Temperature Controlled Shipping"

#8 Post by SteveG » May 18th, 2018, 2:24 pm

TBurklow wrote:Cliffs notes:

I ordered about 4 cases of wine from a shop a few months back and asked for them to be shipped, and they responded back with the fact that they ship temperature controlled, and that timing therefore doesn't matter.
What is this part about? All of my wine for over 10 years comes from shipping retailers, I have never heard of one who declined to ship when both parties felt the weather was suitable. Why would they even want to store and be liable for your purchase any longer than necessary?
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#9 Post by Josh H » May 18th, 2018, 2:27 pm

That’s ridiculous. While the wines are possibly fine, why risk it? A material misrepresentation was made to you. You shouldn’t have to accept potentially compromised wine due to a patent misrepresentation. I’d demand a return.
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What would you do? "Temperature Controlled Shipping"

#10 Post by TBurklow » May 18th, 2018, 2:46 pm

Thank you for all of your responses.

Unfortunately, 2 of the cases are from a very small under the radar producer that has no more wine to replace the ones that I ordered. UGH!!

I'm certainly not going to wait 6 weeks for the "bottle shock" to subside. But I will give the bottle with the highest elevated cork a try in about a week.

If it is damaged, hopefully they will accept a full return!

Thanks again for the advice. Never had to deal with this before.
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#11 Post by larry schaffer » May 18th, 2018, 3:37 pm

Make sure you take pictures of them - and perhaps ask them exactly how the wines should smell and taste. You should have 'visual proof' of the condition of the bottles upon receipt.

Good luck and keep us posted!

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#12 Post by Anton D » May 18th, 2018, 3:45 pm

Good call on the pics, Larry!
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#13 Post by c fu » May 18th, 2018, 3:48 pm

Who is this retaiLer?

First theY claim they can ship out whenever because they seem to clearLy not understand the sciencE behind heat.

But they believe in bottle shock From A truck ride?

Sounds like a retailer that wouldn’t take back your wine and one id never do businesS with.
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#14 Post by Anton D » May 18th, 2018, 3:54 pm

c fu wrote:Who is this retaiLer?

First theY claim they can ship out whenever because they seem to clearLy not understand the sciencE behind heat.

But they believe in bottle shock From A truck ride?

Sounds like a retailer that wouldn’t take back your wine and one id never do businesS with.
Wow, you are good.
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#15 Post by Howard Cooper » May 18th, 2018, 4:28 pm

TBurklow wrote: Looking for advice.
Don't ship when the weather is hot. Ever. No matter what. BE A PEST.
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#16 Post by c fu » May 18th, 2018, 4:32 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
TBurklow wrote: Looking for advice.
Don't ship when the weather is hot. Ever. No matter what. BE A PEST.
He can’t control when the retailer randomly ships though.
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#17 Post by Wes Barton » May 18th, 2018, 4:35 pm

Yeah, they clearly lied to you, knowing being straight risked losing a sale. Curious why they couldn't ship right away. That all sounds dodgy.
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#18 Post by Howard Cooper » May 18th, 2018, 4:42 pm

c fu wrote:
Howard Cooper wrote:
TBurklow wrote: Looking for advice.
Don't ship when the weather is hot. Ever. No matter what. BE A PEST.
He can’t control when the retailer randomly ships though.
Not sure where that comes from. OP said: "I ordered about 4 cases of wine from a shop a few months back and asked for them to be shipped, and they responded back with the fact that they ship temperature controlled, and that timing therefore doesn't matter.

NOT WANTING TO BE A PEST, I just said ok." [emphasis added.]
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#19 Post by Stan Y. » May 18th, 2018, 5:12 pm

Something along these lines pissed me off a few weeks ago. Very old, reputable shop that I work with occasionally these days but have probably purchased $15-20K of wine from over the years listed some 30 year old Bordeaux; I emailed "would you mind checking bottle condition / fill", and got the response "here's a pic:"
unnamed.jpg
Trusted vendor, photo looks good, send me the wine. Here's what I got:
IMG_3106.JPG
Oops forgot to send the back side
Like, dang, what the heck did I do to deserve this? Utter fail.
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#20 Post by TBurklow » May 18th, 2018, 5:57 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
TBurklow wrote: Looking for advice.
Don't ship when the weather is hot. Ever. No matter what. BE A PEST.
Lesson learned!
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#21 Post by c fu » May 18th, 2018, 6:19 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
c fu wrote:
Howard Cooper wrote:
Don't ship when the weather is hot. Ever. No matter what. BE A PEST.
He can’t control when the retailer randomly ships though.
Not sure where that comes from. OP said: "I ordered about 4 cases of wine from a shop a few months back and asked for them to be shipped, and they responded back with the fact that they ship temperature controlled, and that timing therefore doesn't matter.

NOT WANTING TO BE A PEST, I just said ok." [emphasis added.]
I thought he was saying not wanting to be a best as in pushing them to ship it immediately and they just randomly shipped it this week.
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#22 Post by William Gladstone » May 18th, 2018, 6:32 pm

[quote="TBurklow"]Cliffs notes:

I ordered about 4 cases of wine from a shop a few months back and asked for them to be shipped, and they responded back with the fact that they ship temperature controlled, and that timing therefore doesn't matter. A large majority of: importers, distributors and retailers look to save the additional cost available as a shipping option. We spend $4,000 additional for a temperature controlled container from France to the West Coast. Most importers would prefer rationalizing that money right into their pocket. It is like that every step of the process from the winery to your home. It is so difficult to earn a profit that everyone cuts costs, particularly a cost not seen. I've learned not to trust anyone.

I emailed the retailer and got the response....

Tyler,

1) The wines are sent to the temperature controlled hub In Illinois from Napa in a temperature controlled truck. ( You can only ship over night with wine from May - November. Over night, express. Early day delivery and if the wines are "fine", think about the time of year and if they are really important to you ice pack or gel pack and over night. do not screw around and trust anyoneThe last leg is in standard UPS trucks but the wines are cool when they leave the warehouse in the morning. You can put a gauge in that reads the temperature by the hour, check it out.
2) The drivers have no idea what happened to the wine before they get it. Of course not.
3) We use the best and most expensive insulated shippers (styrofoam) to ensure that the wine stays cool on the last day. Really? I do not know the price of these wines, however if we ship May - November it must be overnight only
You ever wonder why some wineries release their wines in May and June?

if you buy fine wines do not trust anyone, use your good judgement and ship over ngith with all safety precautions.

Whatever you do, please do not taste your wine within 3 and preferably 6 weeks to see how it is. It is in bottle shock and will certainly taste like garbage. Burgundies are particularly susceptible. Whites less than reds, but waiting is key.
if the wine cooked, it is cooked..
Last edited by William Gladstone on May 19th, 2018, 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#23 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » May 18th, 2018, 6:35 pm

OP said, “some of the corks are raised”. I send them all back, put stop payment on my credit card. The bottles are potentially compromised. Major fail.

For the record, I accepted a case last year under similar circumstances, and against my better judgment. I will never ever do that again. We spend our hard earned money on this passion, spending more than most would on a bottle of wine, so why compromise when a retailer sends wine in hot conditions.
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#24 Post by Ron Slye » May 18th, 2018, 6:36 pm

I am pretty easy going and tolerant about such things (as it sounds like you are as well), but I do think the comments about how they said one thing and did another is a real problem. I would just let them know that you are not happy with their definition of temperature controlled shipping. If the bottle is off, I would definitely let them know. Frankly if they don't give you a full refund plus something else, I would not order from them again. I don't if the wine is such that it should be aged, but that makes it even more problematic to me. When you open a bottle in xx years, and it is bad, are they going to do anything? Probably not. Sorry you were treated this way. Just not very good customer service.

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#25 Post by James Billy » May 19th, 2018, 1:29 am

If they are being unfair, I would open a bottle and say it tasted a bit off then they will have to take your word and refund you.

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#26 Post by David White » May 19th, 2018, 3:59 am

TBurklow wrote:
Anyways, some of the corks are raised.
Return the bottles and ask for a refund. I wouldn't trust any shipment that resulted in raised corks.
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#27 Post by David Glasser » May 19th, 2018, 4:39 am

Bottles are highly likely to be damaged if corks are pushed.
Store didn’t live up to their promise about shipping.

"Bottle shock?" Are they ignorant or lying? Heat damage might be less overtly apparent after a month or two (perhaps the reason for their advice) but the wine will never be the same.

I wouldn’t open even one.

I would:
- Take pictures.
- Tell them I'm not paying but I'll return them if they want them back. On their dime.
- Dispute the charge with the credit card company.
- Never use them again.

I’d never ship in warm weather regardless of what any retailer or winery says. Maybe next day in a wine emergency if there is such a thing.

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#28 Post by Kirk.Grant » May 19th, 2018, 5:02 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:You asked that it be shipped when the weather was cool and were told no because it would be shipped temp controlled. It wasn't, at least that last leg, and the bottles (some of them) were showing signs of the heat. The first fact to me is the most important. I'd ask to return them
This + 100. If they're so confident in their temperature controlled shipping in the warm weather it shouldn't be a problem. If it was me, I'd give them a chance to make it right and then move on if I was unhappy with their efforts. Everyone can make mistakes, it's how you handle the mistake that earns my repeated business.
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#29 Post by A. So » May 19th, 2018, 5:07 am

c fu wrote:Who is this retaiLer?

First theY claim they can ship out whenever because they seem to clearLy not understand the sciencE behind heat.

But they believe in bottle shock From A truck ride?

Sounds like a retailer that wouldn’t take back your wine and one id never do businesS with.
Your shift key is broken. Should look into getting a new keyboard.
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#30 Post by Doug Schulman » May 19th, 2018, 10:42 am

c fu wrote:Who is this retaiLer?

First theY claim they can ship out whenever because they seem to clearLy not understand the sciencE behind heat.

But they believe in bottle shock From A truck ride?

Sounds like a retailer that wouldn’t take back your wine and one id never do businesS with.
Thanks for this. I have zero interest in buying wine from someone who treats their customers this way. First with misinformation, then with the rude and nonsensical reply to their concern.

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#31 Post by Robert M yers » May 20th, 2018, 5:38 am

I got three cases from them Friday too and also questioned why in the hell the would be shipping now. They gave me the pushback about controlled temp ect ect except for the last day. So many variables where this shipping was going to get messed up, I have no idea why they couldn’t see the issues. Mine thankfully arrived well and on a coolish day. I stopped ordering though until I saw how this played out and how they would have responded if the wine was compromised so I’ll be curious to hear their response.

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#32 Post by Scott G r u n e r » May 20th, 2018, 9:10 am

Yep. Agree to return them.
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#33 Post by Nick Gangas » May 20th, 2018, 9:46 am

Yo,

Protruding cork ? No likey. The quality of wine retailers in this country is overall shit. I spend way too much time chasing down retailers trying to make them make good on their shit. I'm f*cking done. Send them all back and demand a refund. Out them here for the dumb asses they are.

hope all is good.

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#34 Post by S. Stevenson » May 20th, 2018, 10:26 am

3 to 6 week wait? Hummm. Just about the time where as you could not reverse the charge with the CC company.
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#35 Post by Paul Marshall » May 20th, 2018, 12:36 pm

I’ve always been curious as to why certain wineries will ship regardless of the temperature. I live in AZ...so you can imagine my shipping window is like November-March. Venge, Gamble and others will ship 2 day FedEx with an ice pack. Other smaller places like Fait-Main and Kata will place me on a weather hold. Is it the shipper or the Winery making the decisions on this? Really sucks buying wine most of the year here.

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#36 Post by c fu » May 20th, 2018, 1:10 pm

Nick Gangas wrote:Yo,

Protruding cork ? No likey. The quality of wine retailers in this country is overall shit. I spend way too much time chasing down retailers trying to make them make good on their shit. I'm f*cking done. Send them all back and demand a refund. Out them here for the dumb asses they are.

hope all is good.
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#37 Post by JulianD » May 20th, 2018, 1:23 pm

Damn, didn't know it was that bad
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