Gratuity tax?

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
c fu
Moderator
<dfn>Moderator</dfn>
Posts: 31142
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Location: Pasadena

Gratuity tax?

#1 Post by c fu » May 23rd, 2018, 11:11 pm

Has anyone ever seen a line item charge of gratuity tax on a restaurant bill? There was “mandatory “ added gratuity and the next line was tax on that gratuity.

Kinda odd.
Ch@rlie F|_|
"Roulot is Roulot"©

ITB -Salt Vine Wines

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/clayfu.wine

User avatar
Paul Luckin
Posts: 7792
Joined: February 19th, 2009, 2:58 pm
Location: Kenwood, CA

Gratuity tax?

#2 Post by Paul Luckin » May 23rd, 2018, 11:15 pm

CA?

Would not surprise me.
\m/ >_< \m/

ITB once again

User avatar
c fu
Moderator
<dfn>Moderator</dfn>
Posts: 31142
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Location: Pasadena

Gratuity tax?

#3 Post by c fu » May 23rd, 2018, 11:17 pm

Paul Luckin wrote:CA?

Would not surprise me.
Yep. Bay Area.
Ch@rlie F|_|
"Roulot is Roulot"©

ITB -Salt Vine Wines

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/clayfu.wine

Mike Maguire
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: University Place Wa.

Gratuity tax?

#4 Post by Mike Maguire » May 23rd, 2018, 11:34 pm

Seattle?Would not suprise me.Next thing up tax the air you breathe! The most disconnected city council in the US.

User avatar
JulianD
Posts: 719
Joined: June 29th, 2016, 2:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Gratuity tax?

#5 Post by JulianD » May 24th, 2018, 12:19 am

Wonder if you could put a negative number if the service sucked
Davies

User avatar
Jason T
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2136
Joined: June 8th, 2014, 7:45 am
Location: London

Gratuity tax?

#6 Post by Jason T » May 24th, 2018, 1:47 am

The handful of restaurants I’ve dined at that have a “mandatory gratuity” - Next and Alinea in Chicago and I believe one or two others in other states- have all calculated tax not just on the food but also the service.
J@son Tr@ughber

User avatar
Chris Blum
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 9323
Joined: October 10th, 2009, 1:40 pm
Location: Home of the Mayo Clinic

Gratuity tax?

#7 Post by Chris Blum » May 24th, 2018, 4:21 am

Wouldn’t surprise me that a taxing authority decided that any mandatory gratuity was part of the overall service and needed to be taxed. Does that fit with your situation?
"Well, wine only turns into alcohol if you let it sit" -- Lucille Bluth
"The Packers f'n suck" -- Todd French

User avatar
Al Osterheld
Posts: 5644
Joined: March 15th, 2009, 5:47 am
Location: SF Bay

Gratuity tax?

#8 Post by Al Osterheld » May 24th, 2018, 6:38 am

Yes, California taxes mandatory gratuity (basically, doesn't consider it a gratuity).

-Al

saul_cooperstein
Posts: 106
Joined: February 9th, 2017, 12:05 pm

Gratuity tax?

#9 Post by saul_cooperstein » May 24th, 2018, 7:09 am

I am restaurant exec and sales tax is required to be charged on any mandatory gratuity in CA. The restaurant can’t just say it’s optional (including by giving customers the right to ask to have it removed)...if it’s printed on the check vs filled in by hand, it’s considered mandatory. This includes things like a service charge for parties of X or more. Things get very complicated when mandatory gratuities are then distributed to employees in lieu or in addition to direct tips (workers comp, wage rates, tax credit for tip reporting, etc). Additional issues around disclosure to guests.

User avatar
c fu
Moderator
<dfn>Moderator</dfn>
Posts: 31142
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Location: Pasadena

Gratuity tax?

#10 Post by c fu » May 24th, 2018, 8:49 am

Thanks all! Never seen that line item even with large part gratuity. Surprised me is all :)
Ch@rlie F|_|
"Roulot is Roulot"©

ITB -Salt Vine Wines

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/clayfu.wine

User avatar
Kim Z
Posts: 133
Joined: May 8th, 2017, 9:33 am
Location: California

Gratuity tax?

#11 Post by Kim Z » May 24th, 2018, 9:34 am

Line out the mandatory gratuity and tax, then write in a voluntary gratuity without tax. Perfectly legal.
K*I*M Zussm@n

User avatar
alan weinberg
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12068
Joined: April 25th, 2009, 1:23 pm

Gratuity tax?

#12 Post by alan weinberg » May 24th, 2018, 9:44 am

what irritates me is the “x% added for employee health care.” Add it to the cost of food and pay the employees’ benefits yourself. Let me then decide if I want to order the item. Just grates on me.

User avatar
Al Osterheld
Posts: 5644
Joined: March 15th, 2009, 5:47 am
Location: SF Bay

Gratuity tax?

#13 Post by Al Osterheld » May 24th, 2018, 9:54 am

I'm pretty sure that California Board of Equalization expects tax to be paid on the mandatory gratuity even if the customer lines it out. I think they even state it should be collected on bills that list suggested gratuities. My understanding is that if the restaurant listed it on the bill, it's taxable.

-Al

User avatar
JulianD
Posts: 719
Joined: June 29th, 2016, 2:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Gratuity tax?

#14 Post by JulianD » May 24th, 2018, 9:58 am

alan weinberg wrote:what irritates me is the “x% added for employee health care.” Add it to the cost of food and pay the employees’ benefits yourself. Let me then decide if I want to order the item. Just grates on me.
This. I mean... shouldn't you factor in your costs to your products? Nope, just gonna add it later.
Davies

User avatar
Kim Z
Posts: 133
Joined: May 8th, 2017, 9:33 am
Location: California

Gratuity tax?

#15 Post by Kim Z » May 24th, 2018, 10:23 am

Al Osterheld wrote:I'm pretty sure that California Board of Equalization expects tax to be paid on the mandatory gratuity even if the customer lines it out. I think they even state it should be collected on bills that list suggested gratuities. My understanding is that if the restaurant listed it on the bill, it's taxable.

-Al
Mandatory gratuity is not taxable if you're not paying it. However the restaurant may insist, given the idee fixee of driving economic activity and business out of CA champagne.gif
K*I*M Zussm@n

User avatar
JFPelletier
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 267
Joined: April 3rd, 2014, 8:14 pm
Location: Los Angeles,CA

Gratuity tax?

#16 Post by JFPelletier » May 24th, 2018, 11:15 am

JulianD wrote:
alan weinberg wrote:what irritates me is the “x% added for employee health care.” Add it to the cost of food and pay the employees’ benefits yourself. Let me then decide if I want to order the item. Just grates on me.
This. I mean... shouldn't you factor in your costs to your products? Nope, just gonna add it later.
I agree. They are just making a political statement at this point. Never seen that for any other regulation or taxes that increase the costs to run a restaurant. It sometimes makes me reconsider if I want to give my business to that restaurant.

User avatar
Mike V e r h i l l e
Posts: 133
Joined: February 7th, 2010, 1:38 pm
Location: Northern California

Gratuity tax?

#17 Post by Mike V e r h i l l e » May 24th, 2018, 11:16 am

alan weinberg wrote:what irritates me is the “x% added for employee health care.” Add it to the cost of food and pay the employees’ benefits yourself. Let me then decide if I want to order the item. Just grates on me.
My practice is in the City of San Francisco. When I see a "Celebrity Chef" in my office I have been known to ask a 4% surcharge to help pay for the health insurance that I have offered my employees for the last 30 years because it is the right thing to do.

User avatar
JulianD
Posts: 719
Joined: June 29th, 2016, 2:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Gratuity tax?

#18 Post by JulianD » May 24th, 2018, 11:51 am

^ haha. That’s pretty good
Davies

User avatar
Kelly Walker
Posts: 1219
Joined: June 6th, 2009, 7:01 pm

Gratuity tax?

#19 Post by Kelly Walker » May 24th, 2018, 11:54 am

alan weinberg wrote:what irritates me is the “x% added for employee health care.” Add it to the cost of food and pay the employees’ benefits yourself. Let me then decide if I want to order the item. Just grates on me.
I would never patronize any restaurant that did that BS.

If a restaurant includes a mandatory tip, that is all the server is going to get. They have effectively taken that decision away from me. As a very generous tipper the server loses out.

Anyway, I thought that whole healthcare issue was resolved 6 or 7 years ago [snort.gif]
What Kevin Shin said.

Fred C
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2618
Joined: July 11th, 2011, 10:09 am

Gratuity tax?

#20 Post by Fred C » May 24th, 2018, 12:24 pm

alan weinberg wrote:what irritates me is the “x% added for employee health care.” Add it to the cost of food and pay the employees’ benefits yourself. Let me then decide if I want to order the item. Just grates on me.
So does that mean they also have to tax the mandatory health care x% also?
Ch!3n

Jonathan Loesberg
Posts: 1801
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 5:59 am

Gratuity tax?

#21 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » May 24th, 2018, 12:31 pm

Kelly Walker wrote:
alan weinberg wrote:what irritates me is the “x% added for employee health care.” Add it to the cost of food and pay the employees’ benefits yourself. Let me then decide if I want to order the item. Just grates on me.
I would never patronize any restaurant that did that BS.

If a restaurant includes a mandatory tip, that is all the server is going to get. They have effectively taken that decision away from me. As a very generous tipper the server loses out.

Anyway, I thought that whole healthcare issue was resolved 6 or 7 years ago [snort.gif]
This is surely wrong. A mandatory gratuity sets a minimum, not a maximum. In France, where there has been service compris since I first was there in the 60s, people still frequently add on a 5% tiip if they think they have had good service.

saul_cooperstein
Posts: 106
Joined: February 9th, 2017, 12:05 pm

Gratuity tax?

#22 Post by saul_cooperstein » May 24th, 2018, 2:02 pm

My feeling is that if Restaurants fully disclose what they are doing and why, then I have no problem with it and just make my decision on what the total cost will be versus what they provide. Same as I have no problem with a delivery fee when I order something to my house or a fuel surcharge from Delivery companies when gas prices go up.

Sanjay Nandurkar
Posts: 2415
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:52 pm

Gratuity tax?

#23 Post by Sanjay Nandurkar » May 24th, 2018, 2:20 pm

saul_cooperstein wrote:I am restaurant exec and sales tax is required to be charged on any mandatory gratuity in CA. The restaurant can’t just say it’s optional (including by giving customers the right to ask to have it removed)...if it’s printed on the check vs filled in by hand, it’s considered mandatory. This includes things like a service charge for parties of X or more. Things get very complicated when mandatory gratuities are then distributed to employees in lieu or in addition to direct tips (workers comp, wage rates, tax credit for tip reporting, etc). Additional issues around disclosure to guests.
I noticed this once. May have happened many times, who knows. We were dining out in a restaurant and it was a party of 8 (or 10?). There was Compulsory Gratuity tax plus Tax because of 'Large Party'. We were not having BYO wines, using standard stemware , drinking restaurant wines, and we did order enough to make it worthwhile for the restaurant ti have us dining there. Not that we had extra staff waiting on us. But we have extra tax levied because were large party! We should be getting a discount!!! I happened to glance at the bill and was shocked to see how many extra surcharges were levied. The 'standard tip' was also added at the bottom of everything else. Some else was picking up the tab so it dod not hit my hip pocket so the angst was lessened.

I live in Australia where we do tip if required but not like in USA. At our offlines we ALWAYS tip because of having a private room , BYO, extra glassware. Bt a 10% is considered OK.

User avatar
Peter Simpson
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 736
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 12:03 pm
Location: Bakersfield, CA

Gratuity tax?

#24 Post by Peter Simpson » May 24th, 2018, 2:53 pm

They'll be adding a "resort fee" next, they just haven't thought of it yet. [basic-smile.gif]
Cheers, Peter

User avatar
J. Galang
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1275
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 10:26 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Gratuity tax?

#25 Post by J. Galang » May 24th, 2018, 5:21 pm

Personally I have never been a fan of tipping, in any situation. There is a restaurant in Oakland called Camino where they got rid of tips. Obviously the food prices got higher but in the end I actually preferred that to the concept of tipping. IMHO tipping is bad for waiters and staff in general because it gives the restaurant the justification to pay their employees below minimum wage (or a very low salary) in most places.

It was actually quite a refreshing change when I last dined at Camino:

http://www.caminorestaurant.com/about

I wish ALL restaurants followed this model (I guess I could always move to Japan [neener.gif] )
Joel Galang

User avatar
Rich K0rz€nk0
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 444
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 5:41 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Gratuity tax?

#26 Post by Rich K0rz€nk0 » May 24th, 2018, 5:23 pm

Kim Z wrote:Line out the mandatory gratuity and tax, then write in a voluntary gratuity without tax. Perfectly legal.

I believe there is conflicting case law on that one. Back in the 2000s, some folks in NY and Penn were arrested for Theft of Service however charges were dropped in those cases. Then there was a lawsuit a bit later against Darden. That was someone not that was arrested however did sue seeking remedy and the judge sided with Darden in that case for a variety of reasons, mostly failing to show injury. That was most likely dead on arrival. The IRS later changed it up so that is now considered more a service charge (and could be considered enforceable) to the restaurant and not the server; the IRS was just aiming to ensure they get their share of taxes however Service charges are not the same as gratuity, so there's that as it takes the server out of the mix.

I go back to talking with the manager if service is not going well, requesting a change if necessary. If all still fails, punish them publicly and cut out them off from your business. If they truly do suck, do not do the right thing, the rest works itself out in a Darwinian manner.
Last edited by Rich K0rz€nk0 on May 24th, 2018, 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Time Person of the Year - 2006

User avatar
Kelly Walker
Posts: 1219
Joined: June 6th, 2009, 7:01 pm

Gratuity tax?

#27 Post by Kelly Walker » May 24th, 2018, 6:31 pm

By definition there is no such thing as a mandatory gratuity. It is a service charge. No different than being quoted a hotel room rate only to find out there is a resort fee.
What Kevin Shin said.

User avatar
Rich K0rz€nk0
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 444
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 5:41 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Gratuity tax?

#28 Post by Rich K0rz€nk0 » May 24th, 2018, 7:41 pm

Kelly Walker wrote:By definition there is no such thing as a mandatory gratuity. It is a service charge. No different than being quoted a hotel room rate only to find out there is a resort fee.
And Service Charges can be enforceable if disclosed (i.e. you can't just cross it out). Gratuity on the other hand, yes you can walk away .

I'll agree with the resort fees, You can argue the hotel might, just might, throw you a bone. I had to do it on a fee that my company took issue with on an expense report.

Try arguing that with various service fees on your cell phone bill, same ballpark, not so much luck to be had there. They will not give one shit.

Depends on how much they want to dig in and they can be enforced as not gratuity.
Time Person of the Year - 2006

User avatar
Al Osterheld
Posts: 5644
Joined: March 15th, 2009, 5:47 am
Location: SF Bay

Gratuity tax?

#29 Post by Al Osterheld » May 24th, 2018, 9:26 pm

From California Board of Equalization Publication 115: "It is presumed that an amount you [restaurant] add as a tip to the bill or invoice you present to the customer is mandatory. A statement on the bill or invoice that the amount is suggested, optional, or may be increased, decreased, or removed by your customer does not change the mandatory nature of the charge. This presumption may be disputed by documentary evidence maintained in your records showing that your customer specifically requested and authorized the gratuity be added to the bill."

Not sure whether it's been addressed by California courts. But, as I noted earlier, I'm pretty sure the CA BOE considers it taxable if you cross it out and add it back.

-Al

NED VALOIS
Posts: 5802
Joined: March 7th, 2012, 9:47 am
Location: South Miami,Fl

Gratuity tax?

#30 Post by NED VALOIS » May 24th, 2018, 10:09 pm

This ;
A one percent (1%) Homeless and Domestic Violence Tax is collected on all food and beverage sales by establishments that are licensed by the State of Florida to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, except for hotels and motels. Only businesses that make over $400,000 in gross receipts annually are obligated to collect this tax.

The Homeless and Domestic Violence Tax is collected throughout Miami-Dade County with the exception of facilities in the cities of Miami Beach, Surfside and Bal Harbour. Eighty-five percent (85%) of the tax receipts goes to the Miami-Dade County Homeless Trust, and fifteen percent (15%) goes to Miami-Dade County for domestic violence centers.

For more details, read about the Homeless and Domestic Violence Tax on Sale of Food and Beverages.

User avatar
Robert.A.Jr.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 22327
Joined: January 28th, 2010, 5:03 am
Location: Orlando, Florida

Gratuity tax?

#31 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » May 25th, 2018, 5:15 am

Interesting, Ned. While I support the focus, and am a liberal bastard, I really don’t understand the connectivity between the tax and the cause, and the carve-outs. Did this really pass? And challenges?

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

Kenny H (circa 2015)

saul_cooperstein
Posts: 106
Joined: February 9th, 2017, 12:05 pm

Gratuity tax?

#32 Post by saul_cooperstein » May 25th, 2018, 5:27 am

The carve out for Miami Beach and Bal Harbour is likely because Miami Dade already has a 2% Tourist Development Tax in those areas.

NED VALOIS
Posts: 5802
Joined: March 7th, 2012, 9:47 am
Location: South Miami,Fl

Gratuity tax?

#33 Post by NED VALOIS » May 25th, 2018, 7:49 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:Interesting, Ned. While I support the focus, and am a liberal bastard, I really don’t understand the connectivity between the tax and the cause, and the carve-outs. Did this really pass? And challenges?

SI,señor !
http://www.miamidade.gov/budget/library ... -trust.pdf

User avatar
Kim Z
Posts: 133
Joined: May 8th, 2017, 9:33 am
Location: California

Gratuity tax?

#34 Post by Kim Z » May 25th, 2018, 8:47 am

Al Osterheld wrote:From California Board of Equalization Publication 115: "It is presumed that an amount you [restaurant] add as a tip to the bill or invoice you present to the customer is mandatory. A statement on the bill or invoice that the amount is suggested, optional, or may be increased, decreased, or removed by your customer does not change the mandatory nature of the charge. This presumption may be disputed by documentary evidence maintained in your records showing that your customer specifically requested and authorized the gratuity be added to the bill."

Not sure whether it's been addressed by California courts. But, as I noted earlier, I'm pretty sure the CA BOE considers it taxable if you cross it out and add it back.

-Al
I would agree if the menu plainly states there will be a mandatory gratuity. But absent this, the customer is not contractually obligated to pay an undisclosed gratuity, and can delete it.

On a related topic, don't forget the aptly-named California use tax on wine ordered from out of state:

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/use-tax.shtml
Last edited by Kim Z on May 25th, 2018, 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
K*I*M Zussm@n

Michae1 P0wers
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4195
Joined: March 6th, 2010, 1:47 pm
Location: St. Louis

Gratuity tax?

#35 Post by Michae1 P0wers » May 25th, 2018, 9:37 am

Ah good, they've found a way to make the US tipping system even more absurd and arcane.

User avatar
Jay Miller
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 14222
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 5:18 pm
Location: Jersey City

Gratuity tax?

#36 Post by Jay Miller » May 25th, 2018, 10:34 am

Mike V e r h i l l e wrote:
alan weinberg wrote:what irritates me is the “x% added for employee health care.” Add it to the cost of food and pay the employees’ benefits yourself. Let me then decide if I want to order the item. Just grates on me.
My practice is in the City of San Francisco. When I see a "Celebrity Chef" in my office I have been known to ask a 4% surcharge to help pay for the health insurance that I have offered my employees for the last 30 years because it is the right thing to do.
Well played! [cheers.gif]
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

Jonathan Loesberg
Posts: 1801
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 5:59 am

Gratuity tax?

#37 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » May 25th, 2018, 11:13 am

Michae1 P0wers wrote:Ah good, they've found a way to make the US tipping system even more absurd and arcane.
I think the problem is simply hangover terminology. Mandatory gratuity is a contradiction in terms and taxing it raises hackles. If the bill just charged a price and said service and tax included, no one would blink and they would be paying the same money.

User avatar
Howard Horwitz
Posts: 260
Joined: June 2nd, 2009, 4:02 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Gratuity tax?

#38 Post by Howard Horwitz » May 25th, 2018, 12:48 pm

I understand taxing so-called mandatory gratuity but the restaurants really should not call it a gratuity if it is mandatory. How about "service charge"?

There is also more than one way to look at a restaurant health care surcharge. Yes, restaurants could simply raise their prices and pay these costs, but consumers then would be unaware of why the increase occurred and might object to the higher prices without understanding their cause. For my part, I consider a stated heath care charge an example of transparency that I want to encourage. I want employers to provide health care for their employees, and I like to know that is happening even if the cost is passed on to me. If i don't want to pay for it, I can take my business elsewhere. But at least the facts are on the table.
Howard Horwitz

Jonathan Loesberg
Posts: 1801
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 5:59 am

Gratuity tax?

#39 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » May 25th, 2018, 1:03 pm

Howard Horwitz wrote:I understand taxing so-called mandatory gratuity but the restaurants really should not call it a gratuity if it is mandatory. How about "service charge"?

There is also more than one way to look at a restaurant health care surcharge. Yes, restaurants could simply raise their prices and pay these costs, but consumers then would be unaware of why the increase occurred and might object to the higher prices without understanding their cause. For my part, I consider a stated heath care charge an example of transparency that I want to encourage. I want employers to provide health care for their employees, and I like to know that is happening even if the cost is passed on to me. If i don't want to pay for it, I can take my business elsewhere. But at least the facts are on the table.
The American system of tying health care to employment creates a lot of distortions, but this is a fairly minor one. And why should restaurants be the only ones to do this. Virtually everything you buy goes through the hands of employees with health care. Why not break it all out? The price tag would get long indeed.

User avatar
W. Leonard
Posts: 629
Joined: September 25th, 2011, 7:27 am
Location: Washington, DC

Gratuity tax?

#40 Post by W. Leonard » May 25th, 2018, 4:26 pm

J. Galang wrote:Personally I have never been a fan of tipping, in any situation. There is a restaurant in Oakland called Camino where they got rid of tips. Obviously the food prices got higher but in the end I actually preferred that to the concept of tipping. IMHO tipping is bad for waiters and staff in general because it gives the restaurant the justification to pay their employees below minimum wage (or a very low salary) in most places.

It was actually quite a refreshing change when I last dined at Camino:

http://www.caminorestaurant.com/about

I wish ALL restaurants followed this model (I guess I could always move to Japan [neener.gif] )
California or at least the Bay Area have made it so that there is no longer a restaurant minimum wage and that restaurants have to pay their employees the standard minimum wage (hopefully) as their base wage. Maybe this is why you are seeing more mandatory gratuities...
warren@weygandtwines.com

User avatar
Rich K0rz€nk0
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 444
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 5:41 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Gratuity tax?

#41 Post by Rich K0rz€nk0 » May 25th, 2018, 6:11 pm

Howard Horwitz wrote:I understand taxing so-called mandatory gratuity but the restaurants really should not call it a gratuity if it is mandatory. How about "service charge"?

One would think that would be the easiest and most logical solution. Because that's just what it is. Why make it less clear with euphemisms.

However... the industry hangs on to what it knows, what its comfortable with. Its muscle memory. Plus, as sure as I'm standing here some ass clown will pay the "service charge", tack on 20% gratuity, then find out they over did it and feel "wronged". Its a no-win situation.

I did love my time in Europe for its simplicity on this matter.
Time Person of the Year - 2006

User avatar
Al Osterheld
Posts: 5644
Joined: March 15th, 2009, 5:47 am
Location: SF Bay

Gratuity tax?

#42 Post by Al Osterheld » May 25th, 2018, 8:30 pm

California requires restaurants to pay tipped staff the minimum wage, with no credit for tips. The minimum wage varies by location, that that requirement does not.

-Al

User avatar
Scott G r u n e r
Posts: 3570
Joined: June 6th, 2009, 9:03 pm
Location: Seattleish

Gratuity tax?

#43 Post by Scott G r u n e r » May 26th, 2018, 6:07 am

JulianD wrote:
alan weinberg wrote:what irritates me is the “x% added for employee health care.” Add it to the cost of food and pay the employees’ benefits yourself. Let me then decide if I want to order the item. Just grates on me.
This. I mean... shouldn't you factor in your costs to your products? Nope, just gonna add it later.
Read your cell phone bill lately? They pioneered this practice of passing on random taxes or just costs of doing business as additional taxes to “avoid” raising prices
//Cynic

User avatar
Kelly Walker
Posts: 1219
Joined: June 6th, 2009, 7:01 pm

Gratuity tax?

#44 Post by Kelly Walker » May 26th, 2018, 7:14 am

My Palm Beach rental car this week:

Quoted: $54.36

Service Charges:
Concession Recoupment Fee: $6.38
Vehicle Licensing Cost Recovery: $1.41
Frequent Flyer Surcharge: $0.07
FLA Surcharge: $6.06
Energy Surcharge: $1.49
Tax: $4.88

Total actually paid: $74.57
What Kevin Shin said.

User avatar
RichardFlack
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1341
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 10:41 pm
Location: Toronto

Gratuity tax?

#45 Post by RichardFlack » May 26th, 2018, 8:43 am

J. Galang wrote:Personally I have never been a fan of tipping, in any situation. There is a restaurant in Oakland called Camino where they got rid of tips. Obviously the food prices got higher but in the end I actually preferred that to the concept of tipping. IMHO tipping is bad for waiters and staff in general because it gives the restaurant the justification to pay their employees below minimum wage (or a very low salary) in most places.

It was actually quite a refreshing change when I last dined at Camino:

http://www.caminorestaurant.com/about

I wish ALL restaurants followed this model (I guess I could always move to Japan [neener.gif] )
And presumably tax is levied on the total price? Not total less 20% deemed tip? :)

I'm curious how Tax is handled at any "pay what you can" facility (thinking of some theatres say). Are they required to charge tax. I'm guessing yes. Really if you accept the premise of sakes and service or value added tax it's a bit of an anomaly that tips are not all taxed. (As all tips are theoretically subject to income tax).
It's a funny business model. Imagine a car repair shop paying minimum wage and relying on tips....
But then there's a lot that's funny about the restaurant business e.g. Under charging for food and over charging on wine. But that's another thread I think. [stirthepothal.gif]

User avatar
JulianD
Posts: 719
Joined: June 29th, 2016, 2:09 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Gratuity tax?

#46 Post by JulianD » May 26th, 2018, 8:54 am

Scott G r u n e r wrote:
JulianD wrote:
alan weinberg wrote:what irritates me is the “x% added for employee health care.” Add it to the cost of food and pay the employees’ benefits yourself. Let me then decide if I want to order the item. Just grates on me.
This. I mean... shouldn't you factor in your costs to your products? Nope, just gonna add it later.
Read your cell phone bill lately? They pioneered this practice of passing on random taxes or just costs of doing business as additional taxes to “avoid” raising prices
Things being common in the wireless indsutry <> things being common in the restaurant industry.
Davies

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”