Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - Happy Ending!

I thought I would pass along my experience with Total Wine Bordeaux futures. I’ve purchased futures for the '14, '15, and '16 vintages. I had some issues with delivery of '14 Vieux Ch Certan, but eventually all was well and I got the wine I ordered. Unfortunately, I was recently informed that my ordered and purchased 2015 VCC would not be delivered. I found this incredibly frustrating, as I had inquired about the status of this order multiple times and was always given a date for expected delivery. I got the rest of my bottles including some 375’s (about 4 mixed cases) and highly sought Ch Canon, but this made me very nervous about my pending 2016 purchases. They seemed somewhat apologetic, I was offered the opportunity to purchase some other 2015’s at release price, but of course the bottles with considerable appreciation and those which were highly allocated are gone. I ended up with some Eglise-Clinet. I didn’t lose money or anything, but you would think that with a company of this size if things go wrong they would go a little beyond the minimum in customer service. But no, very transactional. I regret not buying more futures from retailers I’ve built relationships with over time, despite having to pay 100% up front. Lesson learned.

Somewhat similar to the experience in this thread:

Anyone else have issues?

What was the explanation if any?

I too am interested in hearing their explanation, but also I would say there is zero excuse for non-delivery of futures unless they can specifically tell you that something very odd happened- such as a pallet of wine being damaged by a forklift etc. And even then, a company of this size has the resources to make good. Even if it was just a 50% deposit, you PAID up front for these wines.

Appreciate you posting this. I have not had any trouble like this yet- but after some very good interactions with TW when they had a lot of 2014s to sell (and some big spending), my opinion of their operation based on a number of recent experiences has plummeted. The individual wine managers at the stores are pretty terrific- but they are very limited in what they can do by company policy.

If the wine had arrived but the customer refused to pay for the balance, the company would likely have used its resources to force the completion of the contract, which it unilaterally defaulted.

We should ask ourselves if Total Wine resembles Premier Cru.

While I doubt their failure is like PC’s - an about to collapse pyramid scheme - this is a pretty offensive failure. VCC is a very widely available wine. One can only assume gross incompetence if not deliberate scamming. They promised to sell something they clearly did not have the ability to sell.

I’m still waiting on 15’ futures of some half bottles from TW, Ch Poyferre and Clos l’Eglise. Everything else I ordered came in a while ago. Anyone else still waiting for anything?

Go to a store and speak in person to a senior manager——-in front of other customers.

I don’t think the OP was very effective in getting TW to honor their commitment. You shouldn’t have to push so hard – but, if the same thing happened to me, I’d have my VCC.

Been out of the futures game for a while but I really can not think of a good reason why they would fail to deliver. A solid organization (far as I know) and these orders were placed years ago with cash upfront. Maybe they made a mistake in the original order? If so that is on them. Maybe they broke some? Same thing. I am not a whiner but in this case I would definitely push and make a stink about it. After all this is the main reason one buys futures, to secure your purchase with a reputable merchant for future delivery.

Are these futures or pre-arrivals? I thought there was a difference and given that it’s not all paid up front I’m assuming these are not futures.

Nope. Just boiler plate statement that they couldn’t get the wine. And I hadn’t just paid 50% deposit, but the whole bill

My first choice was to move to the 16 vintage, but that option was denied.

It’s disturbing that you’ve had this problem. Have you gone up the chain? How far? The discretion to vary policy increases the higher you go.

That’s quite a statement. I had been hounding them for MONTHS. This was the purchase for 2015 I was most excited about (other than Canon). I was always given an expected delivery date— first April, then June, then Sept. Then suddenly got a refund and a “sorry” message.

Why exactly is this a failure on my part? Maybe I don’t spend enough to be a priority but I had about $5k in futures for each vintage between 14-16.

What happened to you basically defeats the WHOLE POINT of buying EP.

VCC is a relatively small production estate, and that vintage is one likely to go up in value.

One of the few items potentially worth taking the risk to pay up front for.

A company with the capital and legal resources of TW really should have delivered these to you, even at the cost of going to the open market and finding your promised and paid for allocation. That’s a drop in the bucket to that firm.

The whole futures game is really a coin toss where

a) the merchants win by delivering wines that have gone down in value since purchase
b) the merchants win by not delivering wines than have gone up in value since purchase
c) the merchants win by just keeping the money and not delivering anything
d) the merchants swap out the desirable formats ordered for easier to find 750mls, that likely would not have been ordered to begin with if that was going to be the outcome

I wonder how many other customers got hosed on this but just haven’t spoken up.

The merchant here, despite their size, doesn’t have a long history in the futures niche and seems to be using their clients for the learning curve.

I lost a lot of leverage once they refunded me. And they did that without me requesting it.

I would go into your store, bring all those receipts for various years, say you paid in full and expect delivery. Assuming that does nothing since it is at the local level, then ask for the name of and to speak with the person who runs the Futures program there. There are other ways to escalate if you continue to get stonewalled but basically this is a breach of ct.

I am forgiving of human errors but this sounds otherwise.

Arv, this was exactly my take on the situation. Posting mainly as a data point for others and to see if anyone else had issues.

I’ve already done this.

Guys I appreciate the advice, but I’m out of options. Mearly posting as a “this is what happened to me” sort of post.

I came very close to cancelling my 2016 orders, but instead will just shift the rest of my 2015 and 2016 buying to other retailers. I will probably but much more 16’s as it’s a birth year for my son and excellent vintage.

FYI all my futures from basins and Posner came through fine.

Josh,

So you spoke with the the person who runs this Nationally and what did he/she say about this?

This really stinks and this is exactly why one buys futures from a large viable merchant. I still hope you get some better resolution.