Rhys 2016 Pricing

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G. Bienstock
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#51 Post by G. Bienstock » November 1st, 2018, 12:40 pm

A recent 2010 Horseshoe was also tired and oxidized.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#52 Post by Markus S » November 1st, 2018, 2:56 pm

Greg Ossi wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 12:01 pm
Paul H Galli wrote:
October 31st, 2018, 10:21 pm


The Chards are still on the table as they age rather quickly.

TTT
Paul - that is an interesting comment on the chards - I recently pulled a 2010 Alpine Chard and it was definitely on the downslope - very flat and marzipan dominated the short finish - perhaps a bit oxidized as well. I was a bit surprised as to how advanced it tasted. I am going to try and dig out another one from my cellar and compare to see if this was just a one-off. I have not had a similar experience with other Rhys chards but then I usually drink these rather early.

Greg
I've found they need to be drunk early(er). I think I had a 2010 also that was on the downside too (have to search notes to see which one).
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#53 Post by Russ Williams » November 1st, 2018, 4:58 pm

My experience has been the 2010’s are an outlier. Every other vintage I have had has shown very well with no risk of decline anytime soon. Am I going to cellar them for 15 years...no...but 6-10, absolutely.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#54 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 1st, 2018, 7:44 pm

The Chards are delicious young. I see no reason to age them at all.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#55 Post by Jeff Filippi » November 1st, 2018, 8:29 pm

I agree with what Russ. The 2010 Chards are early agers (I even think Kevin has said as much).
To me all the other Chardonnays have been great with age. A 2008 a few months ago was superb. I think all the recent vintages (2012 to present) will last a long time.

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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#56 Post by M. Dildine » November 1st, 2018, 8:35 pm

Jeff Filippi wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 8:29 pm
I agree with what Russ. The 2010 Chards are early agers (I even think Kevin has said as much).
To me all the other Chardonnays have been great with age. A 2008 a few months ago was superb. I think all the recent vintages (2012 to present) will last a long time.
I have an 08 Alpine I look forward to tasting and reporting on soon.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#57 Post by Sean_S » November 1st, 2018, 8:59 pm

Recently was fortunate enough to attend a single blind vertical of the following.

2004 Rhys, Santa Cruz Mountains (14.6%): Although not labeled as such, this wine is 100% Alpine Vineyard Chardonnay.
2006 Rhys 'Alpine Vineyard', Santa Cruz Mountains (14.2%)
2007 Rhys 'Alpine Vineyard', Santa Cruz Mountains (13.7%)
2009 Rhys 'Alesia', Santa Cruz Mountains (13.0%): This is a blend of Alpine and Horseshoe Vineyard grapes.
2010 Rhys 'Horseshoe Vineyard', Santa Cruz Mountains (13.4%):
2011 Rhys 'Alesia - Alder Springs Vineyard', Mendocino (13.2%)
2012 Rhys 'Alpine Vineyard', Santa Cruz Mountains (13.3%)
2014 Rhys, Anderson Valley (13.2%)
and the ringer
2009 Darnat-Jacquinet, Puligny-Montrachet 1er Cru (13.5%) - no tasting notes available

My WOTN was the 2009 Alesia followed by the 2012 Alpine. To me the 2004 was super golden yellow and well over the hill but was #1 wine for at least one taster but last place for me. The 2006 and 2007 were holding up better but for my palate but IMO the newer ones were drinking better. I think it depends what you like. I learned that I'll be drinking mine within 5-10 years of release.

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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#58 Post by Paul H Galli » November 1st, 2018, 9:36 pm

Sean_S wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 8:59 pm
I think it depends what you like. I learned that I'll be drinking mine within 5-10 years of release.
Sean
I can't disagree with your drinking window.

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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#59 Post by R Roberts » November 1st, 2018, 11:24 pm

Jeremy Holmes wrote:
October 30th, 2018, 8:15 pm
Kevin,

I miss you posting Burg notes. I know you have a business to run but can you come back please?

Cheers
Jeremy
Kevin, your comments on 2008 Produttori put it more prominently on my radar, for which I'm grateful. Maybe you can avoid burning bridges but still provide your thoughts on only wines that impress?

As for Rhys pricing, it seems about right for the quality IMO. I'd rather have good appellation wines with vineyard designate wines that are the best they can be, and do bottle cost averaging based on what I feel comfortable with. So I'm happy with this latest move. Personally I'd go deeper on purchases if not for a cellar diversification goal.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#60 Post by Russ Williams » November 2nd, 2018, 4:17 am

Sean_S wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 8:59 pm
Recently was fortunate enough to attend a single blind vertical of the following.

2004 Rhys, Santa Cruz Mountains (14.6%): Although not labeled as such, this wine is 100% Alpine Vineyard Chardonnay.
2006 Rhys 'Alpine Vineyard', Santa Cruz Mountains (14.2%)
2007 Rhys 'Alpine Vineyard', Santa Cruz Mountains (13.7%)
2009 Rhys 'Alesia', Santa Cruz Mountains (13.0%): This is a blend of Alpine and Horseshoe Vineyard grapes.
2010 Rhys 'Horseshoe Vineyard', Santa Cruz Mountains (13.4%):
2011 Rhys 'Alesia - Alder Springs Vineyard', Mendocino (13.2%)
2012 Rhys 'Alpine Vineyard', Santa Cruz Mountains (13.3%)
2014 Rhys, Anderson Valley (13.2%)
and the ringer
2009 Darnat-Jacquinet, Puligny-Montrachet 1er Cru (13.5%) - no tasting notes available

My WOTN was the 2009 Alesia followed by the 2012 Alpine. To me the 2004 was super golden yellow and well over the hill but was #1 wine for at least one taster but last place for me. The 2006 and 2007 were holding up better but for my palate but IMO the newer ones were drinking better. I think it depends what you like. I learned that I'll be drinking mine within 5-10 years of release.
Is it correct to assume the Rhys wines were all chards?
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#61 Post by Mike Evans » November 2nd, 2018, 11:04 am

Kevin, with the addition of the 2016 Alesia Anderson Valley Chardonnay and SCM Pinot Noir to the recent release, will this be the only offer of these wines or will there be another separate offering in the future?

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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#62 Post by Tyler Rico » November 2nd, 2018, 11:15 am

K&L has the 2016 Alesia Chard up now for $32.99

https://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1345875

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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#63 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » November 2nd, 2018, 12:06 pm

Tyler Rico wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 11:15 am
K&L has the 2016 Alesia Chard up now for $32.99

https://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1345875
and now $44.99.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#64 Post by Kevin Harvey » November 2nd, 2018, 1:31 pm

Mike Evans wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 11:04 am
Kevin, with the addition of the 2016 Alesia Anderson Valley Chardonnay and SCM Pinot Noir to the recent release, will this be the only offer of these wines or will there be another separate offering in the future?
Mike,
There will be another All-Alesia Offering focused on these two. It will have multiple bottle sizes and case discounts. This addition is just intended to allow people to round out their order with some lower priced bottles.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#65 Post by R M Kriete » November 2nd, 2018, 3:15 pm

Jim Hartten wrote:
October 30th, 2018, 11:04 am
I dropped off the Rhys list about 4 years ago when I discovered similar style/quality from Oregon. Cristom, BrickHouse, PG, and others all make as good pinots for less imo. [soap.gif]
+1. Oregon just better quality:price ratio than California!

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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#66 Post by Sean_S » November 2nd, 2018, 9:21 pm

Russ Williams wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 4:17 am
Sean_S wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 8:59 pm
Recently was fortunate enough to attend a single blind vertical of the following.

2004 Rhys, Santa Cruz Mountains (14.6%): Although not labeled as such, this wine is 100% Alpine Vineyard Chardonnay.
2006 Rhys 'Alpine Vineyard', Santa Cruz Mountains (14.2%)
2007 Rhys 'Alpine Vineyard', Santa Cruz Mountains (13.7%)
2009 Rhys 'Alesia', Santa Cruz Mountains (13.0%): This is a blend of Alpine and Horseshoe Vineyard grapes.
2010 Rhys 'Horseshoe Vineyard', Santa Cruz Mountains (13.4%):
2011 Rhys 'Alesia - Alder Springs Vineyard', Mendocino (13.2%)
2012 Rhys 'Alpine Vineyard', Santa Cruz Mountains (13.3%)
2014 Rhys, Anderson Valley (13.2%)
and the ringer
2009 Darnat-Jacquinet, Puligny-Montrachet 1er Cru (13.5%) - no tasting notes available

My WOTN was the 2009 Alesia followed by the 2012 Alpine. To me the 2004 was super golden yellow and well over the hill but was #1 wine for at least one taster but last place for me. The 2006 and 2007 were holding up better but for my palate but IMO the newer ones were drinking better. I think it depends what you like. I learned that I'll be drinking mine within 5-10 years of release.
Is it correct to assume the Rhys wines were all chards?
Sorry, yes they were all chardonnays.

Sean
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#67 Post by Frank Murray III » November 3rd, 2018, 11:11 am

I personally think the Chard program has evolved, or I have evolved, maybe both. Who knows. But, I have long since drank all of my Rhys Chards pre 2012. My belief and it's validated through via my own TNs is that these wines have become more dialed in, with less perceived oak and terrific flavors. I keep very little Chard in my cellar, but it's made up now mostly of Rhys and Kutch, along with some Model Farm.
My best wines for 2020:
2014 Marie Courtin Champagne Efflorescence Extra Brut
2012 Minière F & R Champagne Influence Brut
2008 Rhys Skyline PN SCM
2015 Ulysse Collin Champagne Les Pierrières
2014 Laherte Frères Champagne BdB EB Les Grands Crayeres

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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#68 Post by Greg Ossi » November 5th, 2018, 12:00 pm

Last night we drank the 2013 Alpine Chard and it was fantastic. Good length, balance and minerality. No trace of oxidation or premature aging.

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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#69 Post by Richard Malloy » November 10th, 2018, 7:44 am

It’s certainly with some regret that I’ll be totally passing on a Rhys offer for the first time - such a nice looking vintage too - but very glad to have gotten in on these wines before the pricing caught up to the value. Still holding a couple cases from the past decade, gong back to an 06 Alpine Hillside I purchased from a Berserker before making the list.

Thanks folks for the heads up! [cheers.gif]

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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#70 Post by Stewart Johnson » November 10th, 2018, 6:52 pm

Nobody welcomes repeated price increases, but consider the alternative model. You can either stack up good vintage after good vintage and earn your way into elite status, with successive concomitant price increases. Or, you can debut as if you had already earned your way into the upper echelon and then hold the line. Plenty of folks here don't seem to bat an eye when the inaugural release of a Napa cab is $150, so, by that standard, Rhys' track record makes their current offer look pretty reasonable.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#71 Post by Kris Patten » November 10th, 2018, 7:14 pm

Not thrilled to read all the Rhys Chard news above. Guess I will line them up and start drinking them thru the holidays and get them down to zero stock.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#72 Post by T.Phillips » November 11th, 2018, 1:18 pm

I’ll happily pay an extra 20 bucks for Rhys and not bat an eye. Great juice.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#73 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » November 19th, 2018, 3:05 pm

Well, with my order now in, my comments can be fact rather than conjecture.

Price hikes, generally: tough to take, for sure, but I won't begrudge anyone getting for their work product what they can. And Rhys's work product is, unquestionably, excellent.

What the price hikes mean to me: I decreased my buying, both in qty, as well as in dollars spent. It remains to be seen if the dollars spent will continue to be down as other portions of the portfolio roll-out in upcoming offerings; the qty will, almost certainly, stay at a decreased level. Rhys already comprises a silly-disproportionate percentage of our cellar, and I'm viewing these price hikes as a catalyst to start making some tough decisions I was previously avoiding.

I ordered half the Bearwallow Chard. I otherwise would have.
For the first time since I've been on the list, I skipped the Bearwallow Pinot. I guess $70 is beyond my tipping point with this one.
I dropped the Horseshoe Syrah, and don't see myself picking it back up at $90. Maybe way down the line, but I suppose it will be $100+ by that time. $90 is *firmly* in the same pond as many high-quality N. Rhone producers, and I guess I'm just not currently willing to "go there" for this bottling. This one was a stretch for me at $80, truth be told.
My purchases of Home stayed the same. (and I appreciated the price remaining stable, as I'm sure everyone does)
I continued with my Skyline purchases, but seriously hemmed and hawed. I will cop to being swayed by Gilman's superlative note, and the fact that I'm only two months off my first Skyline experience (which was an excellent one) helped convince me, too. That said, $130 opens the door to a toooooon of really nice Burgundy, so I have some thinking to do about this one moving forward.
I entirely passed on Porcupine Hill, which is the first time I've done that. I haven't even tasted this bottling yet, which contributed to my hesitancy. Perhaps, if given the opportunity, I will resume purchases of this bottling, but it will have to be a $100+ wine in my eyes for me to do so (again, swimming with plenty of Big Fish here).

Closing comments: These hikes were fairly dramatic. And, again, I don't see a moral problem with them at all. I believe I may have stuck-around to a greater extent had the hikes been smaller. I will be curious to see the pricing on the rest of the portfolio over the following year (I assume we'll see increases on the Hillsides, too, no?). I will also be curious to see where my anticipated lesser purchasing history lands me w/r/t allocations. We do not yet have an established history of how these wines age; my purchases, like many others, have been educated guesses. I'm just now going to do lots of hard thinking about just how much do I want to continue spending on those educated guesses? I do believe my Rhys buying will continue, but the nature and extent is no longer nearly as clear-cut as it once was. And, years down the line, once we do have the beginnings of an aging track record for these wines, the prices resulting from the current price hikes might ultimately prove themselves to be bargains; who knows. One thing strikes me as certain: even if the wines aren't ultimately "worth" their price tags, they're pretty damn nice, and one could spend just as much, or more, and do a lot worse; in other words, I'd rather overpay for good, than underpay for bad.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#74 Post by Bill Mauger » November 19th, 2018, 3:55 pm

Just like Brian above - I decreased my bottle count substantially and also my total typical dollar amount. In the old days I purchased around a case and a half per release and more recently a case + maybe a 1.5 or two. Interestingly, my purchase this time was focused on PN (8 bottles total including Home, Porcupine and Skyline) as the Syrah I also at this price would rather spend the dollars in Northern Rhône or other cool climate examples for less $ and although I did purchase a 1.5 of the Bearwallow Chard did not purchase any 750’s as I thought I would wait on the Alpine and Horseshoe that I preferred in the sampler pack.

Basically, instead of 4-6 bottle verticals I anticipate 2-3 bottles going forward along with some large format purchases.

Bill

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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#75 Post by Robert Grenley » November 19th, 2018, 4:14 pm

i too went light with this offer, partly because of the price increase (though I ended up taking my Skyline allocation despite the price, for what that's worth), and partly because I already find myself with 14.5 cases of Rhys Pinot Noir in the cellar. It occurred to me that I had better start drinking what I have already.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#76 Post by Markus S » November 19th, 2018, 4:46 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
November 19th, 2018, 3:05 pm
Well, with my order now in, my comments can be fact rather than conjecture.

Price hikes, generally: tough to take, for sure, but I won't begrudge anyone getting for their work product what they can. And Rhys's work product is, unquestionably, excellent.



...These hikes were fairly dramatic. And, again, I don't see a moral problem with them at all. I believe I may have stuck-around to a greater extent had the hikes been smaller.
I hold rather similar thoughts but feel I can go to Europe a lot cheaper round-trip. In some respects, Rhys is doing the California pricing model of Apple: Charge beyond what consumers are willing to pay. Why buy a phone for 600 when 1000 will do. I'm not begrudging them their success either, but they are luxury products now and if you want to show off (or have the money), you'll buy them. If not, oh well.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#77 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 19th, 2018, 4:47 pm

No. Just no. You cannot paint Rhys with that brush. Maybe try the top end Napa Cabernets for that comparison. Rhys is not in that senseless league.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#78 Post by Frank Murray III » November 19th, 2018, 4:53 pm

Markus, the last thing I care to do is show off, and I live to a budget. So, the pricing too made me pause and think about how to do my order. What Kevin and Jeff have done is smart, to create a 2 tier system, where IMO quality is high in BOTH tiers. One is just far less expensive and it appeals to me, as much as the higher tier. I am buying from both now, but I am more selective now, too.

I continue to buy, yet some people have pushed the pause button, which I appreciate, too. I simply say to those who pushed pause to think about the Alesia wines, as they are terrific. I tasted them myself.
My best wines for 2020:
2014 Marie Courtin Champagne Efflorescence Extra Brut
2012 Minière F & R Champagne Influence Brut
2008 Rhys Skyline PN SCM
2015 Ulysse Collin Champagne Les Pierrières
2014 Laherte Frères Champagne BdB EB Les Grands Crayeres

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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#79 Post by Mark Y » November 19th, 2018, 5:29 pm

why isn't FM3's avatar the WB of the year logo?
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#80 Post by Joseph MR » November 19th, 2018, 6:23 pm

I also would vote for Frank [cheers.gif]. Getting back to Rhys Chardonnay, I drank my last Alpine 2008 earlier this year. Initially it was somewhat oily and diffuse on the palate, but after half an hour firmed up and became nicely focused, holding well into the next day. 2012 Horseshoe showed more harmonious integration of it's acidity with fruit and mineral elements than the 2013 version earlier this year: whether this reflects vintage differences or me preferring the wine with a bit of extra age, I can't say.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#81 Post by Craig G » November 19th, 2018, 8:06 pm

Mark Y wrote:
November 19th, 2018, 5:29 pm
why isn't FM3's avatar the WB of the year logo?
He divulged that he only has 600 bottles in his cellar.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#82 Post by CWun » November 19th, 2018, 9:20 pm

I've always been a fan since the 2006 vintage. Sure prices have gone up, and I've had to decrease my buying slightly over time to fit my wine budget, but I love Horseshoe and Skyline, and I'll keep buying those as long as they make them.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#83 Post by Kevin Harvey » November 20th, 2018, 6:33 am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
November 19th, 2018, 3:05 pm
I will be curious to see the pricing on the rest of the portfolio over the following year (I assume we'll see increases on the Hillsides, too, no?).
Brian,
There will not be an increase in the 2016 Hillside pricing. Also no increase in the Family Farm, Alpine Chardonnay and Horseshoe Chardonnay prices. The only increases in the remaining 2016s will be Alpine PN, Horseshoe PN and Swan Terrace, each will go up $10.
After that we will offer wines at every price point from the mid $30s to $149 (all including shipping). IMO, many of our lower priced Alesia estate wines are better than some single vineyard bottlings we have made in the past. I hope people will compare them to higher priced alternatives.

Also, we intend to improve our release schedule for 2019 in order to decrease the time between customer orders and wine shipments. The relatively short "wine shipping season" makes this tricky but many customers would like to get their wine more quickly and we think we can accomplish that. We plan to send out the new schedule with the Alesia sale in January.
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#84 Post by Matt Snow » November 20th, 2018, 7:35 am

Wanted to add a note because I did buy somewhat less in this cycle, but my reasons were different from most of those who have posted.

I noticed the price increases, but they did not contribute to my decision to buy less -- the level of quality and consistency I have experienced in the Rhys wines I have tasted has been so high that I generally view these wines as competing (at least in terms of pricing) more with each other than with purchases from other producers. If my Rhys order had cost 20-25% more this time because of price increases, I would have paid it with confidence that I would be happy every time I opened a bottle.

That said, I am at the point where my cellar is pretty full and I am trying to drink (about) as much as I purchase. I have had a hard time doing that with Rhys wines both because of my enthusiastic purchases and my anticipation about the wines' aging potential. When this offer came around I had just unpacked the shipment of my substantial spring order from Rhys, together with orders of Alesia and Aeris, and I had to think realistically about how much of my existing stock I would be likely to drink before this (and likely at least one other offering before the spring) would arrive on my doorstep. Since the wines were competing more for cellar space than purchasing dollars, I actually did not mind that I ended up purchasing somewhat fewer and more expensive bottles at a similar total price to many prior orders.

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John Preston
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#85 Post by John Preston » November 20th, 2018, 11:22 am

Looks like wish lists are beginning to be processed per my credit card alert ; )

Cheers,
JP

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D@vid Bu3ker
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#86 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 20th, 2018, 11:28 am

Kevin Harvey wrote:
November 20th, 2018, 6:33 am
After that we will offer wines at every price point from the mid $30s to $149 (all including shipping). IMO, many of our lower priced Alesia estate wines are better than some single vineyard bottlings we have made in the past. I hope people will compare them to higher priced alternatives.
2013 San Mateo Pinot Noir made your point the other day. It was as good as anything out there, at a moderate price.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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Peter Petersen
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#87 Post by Peter Petersen » November 20th, 2018, 4:12 pm

The wines in the mid $30s are the Alesia wines with a two case discount? Or is something else on the horizon?


Home and FF staying at the same price makes me happy. I’d gladly buy FF in 375ml by the case if offered actually as I generally pick up 500ml and 375ml at auction when people discard those at a small loss.
Other than that I’ll probably stay with two each of Alpine PN , Horseshoe PN, Syrah, and a solitary Skyline with some appellation wines thrown into the mix.

Todd Laubach
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Re: Rhys 2016 Pricing

#88 Post by Todd Laubach » November 21st, 2018, 5:39 am

I have been a long term purchaser of Rhys wines - on since the very beginning. Unfortunately, I had to completely pass on this offer. I had over 130 bottles dating back to 2006 that were stolen and resold by Bill Holder at Safe Harbour. I had to make a tough decision and I cannot justify the prices any longer given I have 2 young kids, career change, etc.

I love the wines and think Kevin runs a first class operation. I do not have any problem with them increasing the prices the quality is outstanding. I am fortunate my brother continues to buy so I will be able to still enjoy the wines on occasion as they are one of my favorite producers. I will probably pick up some Alesia when it is offered again and maybe a couple of bottles of Alpine Pinot once it is released.

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