What's wrong with cherry-picking?

Asking for a friend.

Baking a pie?

I don’t think of it as “wrong”. There are drawbacks - having less familiarity with how a wine performs in “lesser” vintages being one. I personally do not cherry pick- I’m happy to enjoy those producers I like across all vintages, and feel doing so better allows me to support the winery, allows me to be better informed overall, and opens me to appreciating how wines can perform across varying vintage characteristics.

And while one could argue that cherry-picking drives up the prices for cherries, perceived or real, that also implies that “lesser” vintages present a better value for those more likely to appreciate them.

While it may seem appealing to go through life with nothing but peak experiences, I would argue that it’s a path to short-lived satisfaction.

It’s like a roller coaster. Wow, big hill! I would love to try a bigger one. Next coaster is even bigger. Holy cow, where is there a bigger one!? Very soon there are no bigger ones. Even the biggest become routine. Boredom sets in.

This doesn’t mean that it’s not worth pursuing some cherries, but they are not the ultimate meaning of a life with wine.

I think it’s important to put yourself on the ‘other side’ here - as a producer, it’s always nice when your customers support your endeavors wholly. This is not to say that it should be done ‘blindly’ - there has to be a reason for them to do so. Personal preferences may mean that some will not want to take everything you offer - heck, I have one club member who loves my rose so much that that’s all she purchases year round, and I’m happy with that.

The idea that customers would ‘jump in’ in a ‘good’ vintage or after a ‘good’ score is a little disheartening to me. I get it - I just wish it wasn’t so.

I have more thoughts on the issue as a producer but I’ll be interested to hear what others have to say . . .

Cheers.

I have no idea what you are asking. Should I buy wines I am not likely to like very much in preference to ones I am likely to love? Um, no. Not going to do that.

I’m a Bordeaux fan so not sure how this applies to other regions, but in my experience, given how long celebrated vintages can take to age, and the difficulty of judging exactly when to drink them, your chance of a good wine experience can be greater with a so-called “off vintage”.

Also, a celebrated vintage is usually all about “big fruit” and that is not the style one wants all the time.

There is often excellent value in supposed “off vintages”.

So far, another aspect of cherry picking has been ignored. It is not necessarily about a given producer, but buying wine in a retail shop. Some shops really do not like being cherry picked of rare, or high-end, or well priced wines by those with no intent to generally support the store. Maybe very parallel to generally supporting a producer. But then again, especially with internet advertising, customer drop-ins should be expected, and maybe are even encouraged by the ads?

I have no problem with this notion of cherry-picking. I think it is on the seller to provide enough attraction to the customer to come back. Then, perhaps a mutually beneficial relationship can exist. I have long standing with a couple retail shops, and get the occasional special attention but also provide whatever steady business I can via beer, liquor or day-to-day kind of table wine.

With regard to, for example mailing lists, often for some very expensive wines, I also have no problem with cherry picking. But it is often difficult; there may be a wait list which presents a bit of a barrier to getting on, or thinking about leaving, a list that was important enough to get onto. And then there are those very small producers that some of us just decide to support year-in and year-out.

I do not see anything “wrong” with spending your $$ as you see fit. Same with score chasing etc.

However as others have noted one loses much of what many of us enjoy learning about with such a narrow focus. One can miss vintage, winemaker, terroir effects and and inability to learn from different yearsetc. I know when I started I would chase more cherries. Now I focus on the few producers I have honed onto and buy those in most vintages. I think that is a fairly common path.

Certainly people who cherry pick generally pay higher prices to do so. Producers who you may buy direct from reward regular and broad purchases for obvious reasons.

you really appreciate the cherries more if you eat them without picking them first. much more challenging.

Cherry picking is fine. But I need to ask a follow up: how do you pick your cherries? By tasting and then loading up on what your palate thinks, or by acquiring the cherries you are told to pick? If it’s decided by the fiat of a number rating or thinking any one vintage is the cherry, then I think that sort of thing is for the uncurious and lazy type drinker who’s more interested in social signaling and trophy drinking and not being interested in the actual hobby.

Similar to: hunters who go to a preserve and are driven up to a tied animal to shoot, people who would only listen to records that are a number one hit, people who only see Oscar winning films, or people whose favorite teams are this year’s champions.

That sort of cherry picking tells me someone can’t master the hobby and likely has a mundane palate and mindset.

For me, had I done this I would have missed some of the best and sometimes profound wine experiences I have had. Just a few that come to mind;
1964 Mouton (from a magnum it the 1980s)
1975 Beaulieu George de Latour (also in the 1980s)
From resent vintages
2008 Charvin Chateauneuf du Pape
2010 Heymann Lowenstein Vom Blauen Schiefer Riesling
All from none cherry vintages

Funny - I got nastily flamed on another thread recently by a poster who insisted one was a fool to buy any but the best vintages (not to mention only top producers, top crus etc.) because I suggested that there was a lot of enjoyed and learned from drinking lesser vintages and appellations. Happily, the flamer turned out to be a troll who is now gone from the board. :slight_smile: And I will repeat what I’ve said, and support what some others have said here already - I think you will learn less from only cherry picking vintages. Anyone seriously knowledgeable about a region has drunk across the board: vintage, producer, level. You will also miss on some excellent experiences if you limit yourself. Just because I like 2010 burgundy in general a lot more than I like 2011, I’ve had some lovely 2011’s that I’ve liked a lot and which have given me a different experience. I don’t buy to hit only the highest of highs. Importantly, by tasting a lot of different vintages, you may end up finding that your tastes do not match with the common wisdom and you actually prefer some of those “lesser” vintages. I, for instance, far prefer Leroy in vintages not generally considered the best.

All that said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying and drinking what you like. Or in buying more heavily in better vintages, or not buying at all in vintages you don’t like. Even with producers I buy every year, I buy more or less depending on vintage. Of course, those are producers I know very well at this point, bringing me back to the point about how much you can learn drinking across the spectrum.

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I have no idea what the original question was about - taking only the wines of a producer that you think are better than others, or taking the “better” wines from a store, etc.

Why would anyone do anything else? Do you feel obligated to buy a second-rate car because the manufacturer had some design problems, or past-dated meat from the butcher or grocery store because you want to support the local business, or shoes that aren’t finished properly and will hurt your feet because you want to see how the crappier versions “perform” and you’re loyal to that brand?

It’s pretty strange to knowingly take something you suspect or think is less than optimum out of some misguided sense of obligation to some principle. If a product isn’t all that good, get a discount sufficient to make it worthwhile or pass on it.

Besides, what you think is a cherry might be second rate to someone else.

And no. Wine is not somehow different from every other product in the world.

This all seems so obvious, I am still uncertain what the question is. You’ll miss a lot of joy only buying the most famous labels in the most famous vintages, and you’ll spend a fortune unnecessarily. The goal (and, really, the fun) is to find the less august names and vintages that are, in fact, cherries at reasonable prices. Is that cherry-picking? If so, put me down as a particularly purposeful picker.

If the question is whether it is wrong not to “support the retailer or producer” by buying overpriced dreck, the answer is hell no. Helpful hint: don’t produce or stock overpriced dreck.

So, WTF are we talking about?

As I say to my non-wino friends, buy what you like to drink. If you can afford to drink nothing but 1982 first growths, why not? I’ve only had a couple, but they’re pretty great! I don’t drink that way and can’t afford to, but I also don’t subscribe to buying all vintages. Some burgundy producers simply did badly in 2011 and produced green wines. Why should I buy those? It’s not a good product, nor do I think my understanding of Burgundy will be enhanced by buying bad wine. So while there may be some good 2011s, unless I have good reason to think a producer did well that year, why pay good money to take the chance?
But I don’t think that should apply to all vintages that aren’t “vintages of the century” either. In short, there’s a balancing act and I don’t think there’s a clear answer to this question.

I think the question is essentially “what’s wrong with drinking nothing but 82 Bordeaux and 05 burgundy”.

Oh. Ok.

Answer: not a fvcking thing if you can afford it and don’t want any champagne.

Exactly. Drink what you like. We’ll assume that hypothetical person also drinks 88 Salon :stuck_out_tongue:

I like the creative answers (thanks Matt & Victor!) and appreciate the legit responses that expose some of the different contexts where this comes up (winery/collector direct purchase, retail/collector, collector/collector at offline, maybe importer/winery too).

To be clear, I am thinking of social norms and the implications for the parties on both sides of the relationship and was intentionally open ended because I am trying to puzzle how the implications differ in the various scenarios.

The most obvious analogy is:

“A host puts out a bowl of fruit cocktail. A guest helps themself to a plate of just the cherries.”

The analogy seems to read in a pretty straightforward way on offline etiquette. As Larry suggests, some of the other scenarios are less clear. It seems to me like an interesting thing to talk about. Sorry (Neal) if it was too open ended.