Hello all,
I’ve been lurking for some time now posting for the first time. I had a question regarding the use of a coravin with the standard needle for an older bottle. I’ve got an 83 Chave I’m bringing to dinner next week and want to make sure it’s not flawed. Do I run the risk of the older cork not resealing without the use of the vintage wine needle? Thanks so much
I wouldn’t - it took me quite a few bottles (some of them very good indeed - still kicking myself about it) to realise that the coravin doesn’t work with older corks at all. I even discussed it with Greg Lambrecht (the inventor), who suggested I reseal with wax afterwards. It was bullshit - something happens during the coravin process itself - I don’t know exactly what but whatever it is, it compromises the bottle. That’s with the vintage needle, so with a standard needle I certainly wouldn’t chance it.
Sorry to be all doom. Perhaps just double decant before you leave, or alternatively, bring a decent back-up bottle?
and tipping it to get a pour moves the sediment all through the wine.
something happens during the coravin process itself
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Any idea what the ‘“something” could be?
Don’t know but I feel the same way. Coravining seems to have little effect on younger wines but old wines seem to be not the same and seem to fade even faster than normal.
Don’t do it. I love my coravan but I reserve it for young bottles when my wife is out. Had one since the beginning. I don’t use it with anything over 10yrs. Just bring a backup bottle.
old corks lose elasticity and turgor, then don’t snap back after needle removal, leading to oxidation.
Agree with others here that the Coravin doesn’t always succeed in preserving a wine but I have used it to check for corked wines. Here are two options that have worked.
Use the Coravin to check just before the dinner. I doubt an hour or so will hurt even if the cork doesn’t fully re-seal.
Check a few days before the dinner but keep the needle inserted until you leave for the dinner. Even better, bring the bottle with device inserted to the dinner and withdraw it just before opening.
I would not risk it. But if you do I would cover the top with film after removing the needle.
That’s definitely part of it. I also wonder if some oxygen leaks in during the pouring process - either around the needle or perhaps as it is extracted. Perhaps disturbing the delicate balance in the headspace/wine after a number of years might be enough to kickstart other forms of development. Maybe a number of other things as well - who knows. In any case it doesn’t work. If you want to check it a few days before I would actually suggest pulling the cork, extracting some wine with a pipette, and then recorking - that way you won’t disturb the sediment. Best plan woudl just be to pull the cork at home though, before you leave, decant off the sediment, and pour it back into the (rinsed) bottle. That way you can check the wine and ensure that the sediment doesn’t mix into the wine in transit, all in one go!
#2 is a great idea, I hadn’t even thought of that!
A comment not entirely in-line with the OP, but you may find interesting.
On some older bottles whose corks are friable or generally unwieldy, I’ve used the Coravin to simply inject some pressured air. The corks then come out much easier.
Does anyone have any experience with leaving the needle inserted for any period of time (even as short as an evening)? I have worried that oxygen could leak THROUGH the needle and have always just wanted to reinsert the needle if I needed another pour…but I have been tempted to leave the device in for the evening until I knew I didn’t need more wine from the bottle…
I have often left the Coravin in a bottle over three days. The wine has always been excellent on the 2nd day, regardless of age. Some times an older wine will show some oxidation on the 3rd day but not much.
Regarding oxygen getting to the wine through the Coravin …
I have noticed that sometimes at the end of a pour there is a hissing sound when I move the bottle from it’s angled position to upright.
I believe it’s because the pour is not complete ie. there a few drops left and therefore, I guess, some pressure.
I have been trying to avoid it by holding the bottle in the angled position well beyond the point where the pour is complete.
Not sure if it helps.
Does anyone else notice the hissing at the end of a pour?
The hissing at the end is just argon coming out until the pressure equalizes to atmospheric. It shouldn’t make a difference in effectiveness of the seal. Back when I was using the Coravin, I turned it upright once the pour slowed. I didn’t care for the dribbling and time it took to wait for the pour to “finish.”
Never noticed any problem with leaving the needle in all evening either.
I gave up on the device because it was no good for aged wines with sediment and couldn’t be relied on to preserve younger wines more than a week or two.
I’ve had a better experience than most with 30-50 year old wines, but I’ve had enough failures that I’m more careful now. I take into account value of the bottle and time between first access and expected opening now. That said the vast majority of old bottles have been fine for months. Sample size over 100 I’d guess.
I would tend to agree, Mark, with a majority of bottles doing fine a few months out (haven’t gone years). My problem is that about 1/4 (maybe 1/3?) would show signs of deterioration by a month or two. That was too high a percentage to risk on pricey bottles I wanted to age for decades.
Thanks all for the good info on the “hissing” (which always worried me as well), and leaving the needle in for the evening. (Sounds like we’re talking about heroin here).
I haven’t yet had a bottle go bad, but I usually finish the bottle within a week (and don’t think I’ve ever kept one for more than 2 weeks). I have actually found that a wine, closed upon first Coravin-pour, was much more open and expressive a few days later. This may mean it was “on its way” to ultimate oxidation…but it often actually works in my favour if I drink the wine 1-3 days later.
I primarily use Coravin not to “check in” on a bottle, but to drink a partial bottle where I only need a glass or so, with the intent of finishing the bottle in the next 1-3 days. 80% of the time, if I drink half of a bottle, by the next day the rest of the wine is undrinkable…So I got the Coravin. So far, it seems great, just a hassle to use and I run through the cartridges a bit faster than I would have initially assumed.
That’s not correct, David. I have kept wines for months now with not the slightest degradation. I don’t use it for ‘old’ wines – but, even 2000 BDX do fine for a significant amount of time, Longer than the couple of weeks you reference.
When I pull the needle out, I stick a toothpick in the hole that is left. Whether that has any impact or not, I do not know. But, I use Coravin pretty religiously with good effect.
Jim
It was correct for me, Jim, though I may have been overly conservative with my week or two caveat. I have had some bottles do fine for many months but beyond a month between 1/4 and 1/3 showed tired and flat, especially when compared to a freshly opened bottle. I’m glad your experience has been more positive but it’s not a risk I’m willing to take on expensive bottles.
I did store the bottles on their sides afterwards as directed and saw no signs of seepage, but I didn’t try the toothpick trick. Maybe that’s the difference? Perhaps I’ll try again with the toothpick on some less costly bottles.
Have you found a solution to the sediment issue for aged bottles?