Haut Bailly vs. Les Carmes Haut Brion

Focusing on marketing, prices and recent vintages. For reasons that escape me, LCHB price has escalated much more than HB: for the 2016 vintage, the current price of LCHB has more than doubled its initial offer in the US, while HB is a little higher, and for the 2018 vintage, LCHB is again poised for a 100% increase while HB is stuck at the initial price. (This post was prompted in part by a recent offer for 2018 LCHB I received asking $198/bottle, which is quite a bit above its initial price from the same merchant.) Looking at critical scores, the wines in both vintages are very comparable, usually only one point differentiates one vs. the other for any specific critic. Both are from Pessac-Leognan. They seem to be nearly perfect substitutes. Why would the price of LCHB skyrocket while HB stays relatively flat? Leve moves markets?

My opinion is word of mouth and from tasting at events. I had it in Nov and it was the best BDX wine at that moment for me. I noticed others were saying the same. Then the price almost hif 2x ep price.

LCHB from 1998 and 2000 is like $100 or less in the auction market. Why not buy those?

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I’d backfill LCHB all day long. I just grabbed more 2000 for $80, and the 2010 for $70. It’s moved modern. If that’s your style, it’s better than our backfill recommendations. I have to admit enjoying 2014 but it is a glossier wine. I think 2010 and 2000 are better.

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Because those are OK wines. Starting with 2014, they have been completely reenergized. By 2015 LCHB became serious competition with the best wines in all of Bordeaux!

There is no comparison with older vintages.

Pure opinion, Jeffois. Not objective fact. You are conflating things.

And since when is a 91-rating just “OK”? Perhaps that comment is an admission of hyper-grade inflation in this era of critic hype. You rated the 2000 a 91. You rated some prior - granted some ancient - vintages a 95. I don’t think that is just “ok”.

Personally I think 2010 and 2000 are better than 2014 and 2012, when the turn started to happen. I just got my 2016s, so need to pop one to experience some kink liquid chocolate 9 and 1/2 weeks sex! :slight_smile:

and why buy the 18s when you can wait and buy the totally unique never to be repeated 2019 heat wave vintage.

(sarcastic font applied here)

On my website, it is fact! neener Those other guys offer opinions. You should know that by now!

And since when is a 91-rating just “OK”? Perhaps that comment is an admission of hyper-grade inflation in this era of critic hype. You rated the 2000 a 91. You rated some prior - granted some ancient - vintages a 95. I don’t think that is just “ok”.

That’s a valid point. Frankly, I had forgotten what I rated it.

I just got my 2016s, so need to pop one to experience some kink liquid chocolate 9 and 1/2 weeks sex! :slight_smile:

I am waiting! The wine is a bit tighter as you would expect. I tasted it again this year. So pop a cork and let’s see what you t think.

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I am admittedly eager to try it, but I think you know my stylistic preferences. My buddy Levenberg is big on 2016 and Haut Bailly, and it is my intent is to do this side by side. Long time fan of these two estates.

Very different wines. But each offers a sublime tasting experience. Though Haut Bailly will take a long time to develop.

FWIW, it is too early to know how 2019 will be. I can say Bordeaux got a much-needed blast of rain a few days ago in all banks. But we need to see about August and September before getting an idea.

I did notice that the CellarTracker reviews for the LCHB are higher and show more enthusiasm than the HB, both for 2016 and especially 2018. Haut Bailly in general seems to be a kind of “critics wine,” in the sense that critics seem to like it more than drinkers, if CT scores and notes are anything to go by.

Still, do you think there is enough word-of-mouth to move Bordeaux wine in significant quantities to shift the price? Especially since critics are pretty much even on the two wines?

Keith’s latest note on the 2016 HB is not really glowing. Good, but lacking in enthusiasm. He seems to like the 2015 better.

Thanks for pointing that out, Chris. I probably have my years flipped on his comments. Will check CT out now.

If we back up to 2014, I prefer the HB over the LCHB.

+1.
Emphatically.

And price was about the same for the 2014. I paid $55 in futures for the HB, and like $45-50 for the LCHB. Boy would I like to go back and grab more of the HB at that price!

I’d be all over the HB at that price! I paid $80 at K&L before finding a singleton at TW for $64 (same reg. Price of $80 before 20% coupon).

$48 (after coupon) for the LCHB, and I am not interested in more at that price.

2014 is the vintage that drew me back to buying new Bdx… Growing disenchantment with Napa Cab. helped a lot, too.

Great thread and all, but I’m just here for Alfert and Leve. [cheers.gif]

Alfert and Leve need to stop digging into their respective cellars for repetitious bottles. We need new fights!! I propose each buys two bottles of any given wine, and gives one to the other. Cap it at $75 per bottle. Both taste both wines before any disclosure. And then post away. [popcorn.gif]

It is interesting that the comparison is between a wine in Pessac and one in Leognan which is about eight miles apart. We talk about the difference a couple of rows can make, but here we are comparing two wines that is about the same distance as Margaux is from Pauillac, because well over a century ago, they lumped Pessac and Leognan together into one, the Graves.

+!