Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

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Anton D
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#51 Post by Anton D » August 5th, 2019, 12:37 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 11:08 am
Post what you wanna post. I love reading some Bacchanalia threads.
[thumbs-up.gif]
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#52 Post by p@ulbortin » August 5th, 2019, 12:43 pm

Since so many have turned into Balla Bottles the more feedback the better.

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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#53 Post by Chris Seiber » August 5th, 2019, 1:32 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 11:12 am
OK, I think this has been fully vetted. Everyone is in favor of posting whatever you want to post (I suspect even the authors of the posts Howard singled out, which don't seem to complain about such posts at all).

We good?
Let's hope. And you're right, the posts Howard singled out don't even remotely address the idea that it's not "legitimate to post about expensive wines," yet two dozen posters have still risen to defend him against that charge that was never leveled in the first place, so I guess this all worked out in a 2019 social media kind of way.

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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#54 Post by Mattstolz » August 5th, 2019, 3:39 pm

anyone who is upset about the second thread is off base. Like Neal mentions above, Im not a huge fan of the 4 balla bottles per person at a lunch thing either, especially when some of the bottles at them could be the focus of entire meals in their honor, but if you have the resources and the access... more power to you and please share plenty of details!

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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#55 Post by alan weinberg » August 5th, 2019, 4:41 pm

you can open them and pour them down the drain if they are your wines, as many as you want, IMO. Or post on them.

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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#56 Post by GregT » August 5th, 2019, 4:42 pm

And for a summary of the world in which we live:
yet two dozen posters have still risen to defend him against that charge that was never leveled in the first place, so I guess this all worked out in a 2019 social media kind of way
Awesome!
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#57 Post by Ken Strauss » August 5th, 2019, 4:56 pm

GregT wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 4:42 pm
And for a summary of the world in which we live:
yet two dozen posters have still risen to defend him against that charge that was never leveled in the first place, so I guess this all worked out in a 2019 social media kind of way
Awesome!
[rofl.gif]

So true!
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#58 Post by Chuck Miller » August 5th, 2019, 5:28 pm

Most bizarre thread since Alan Eden died.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#59 Post by Markus S » August 5th, 2019, 5:33 pm

Chuck Miller wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 5:28 pm
Most bizarre thread since Alan Eden died.
Someone needs to step up and take his place.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#60 Post by Ian S » August 5th, 2019, 5:57 pm

Markus S wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 5:33 pm
Chuck Miller wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 5:28 pm
Most bizarre thread since Alan Eden died.
Someone needs to step up and take his place.
Exactly what I was thinking - Howard is either channelling Alan Eden, or is applying for the job he vacated. [snort.gif]

Hey Howard: how do you look in a black hat? [wink.gif]
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#61 Post by Mark Golodetz » August 5th, 2019, 6:09 pm

No, I think Howard’s subtext is if we want to enjoy the balla threads, stop kvetching about excess.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#62 Post by Howard Cooper » August 5th, 2019, 7:16 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 6:09 pm
No, I think Howard’s subtext is if we want to enjoy the balla threads, stop kvetching about excess.
Agreed. But even more immediately, I really did not like it when you posted about a way for board members to get wines at a lower price and got slammed for it because the poster could not afford the quantity of wine to be bought (which he was incorrect about).
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#63 Post by Kris Patten » August 5th, 2019, 8:37 pm

Welcome to wine on the internet, there will always be jealousy masked as concern for the poor bottles being opened.

Everyone has a choice to make on what to spend on their drinks, and frankly I wish more would post on the wines they drink on weekdays vs. big events, but I love reading both.

The only gripe you can have about the higher end/limited production wines/spirits is lack of access to them, that is one thing money can't buy.....fair retail pricing.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#64 Post by Mike Miller » August 5th, 2019, 10:05 pm

Never seen a hearse with a luggage rack or pulling a U-Haul trailer. Drink what you want. Post what you want.

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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#65 Post by Andrew Hamilton » August 5th, 2019, 11:10 pm

Greg K wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 10:31 am
I think your real question is whether we should ban Instagram. neener
That's what I thought as well of when reading this thread. Recently over there I saw someone get dressed down for posting a Bourgogne bottle photo. Something along the lines of "It's just a Bourgogne Blanc". You can probably guess the bottle and vintage by looking at the front page of Wine Talk.

I was actually taken aback but couldn't be bothered enough to comment. And for what it's worth it appears the post has since been pulled down. But still, the way I read the comment it appeared the person was borderline wineshaming someone for posting a humble Bourgogne (granted from a not so humble producer).
That sounds about right.
Probably for the best.
They had a good run.

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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#66 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » August 5th, 2019, 11:26 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 4:38 am
I have been reading a number of posts lately by members calling out others for posting about something they perceived to be too elite. A couple of links makes my point (but if I looked, I could find many similar posts):

See, e.g.,

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=162564 (post 40)

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=161747&p=2758682&hi ... e#p2758682 (e.g., post 15)

Are these legitimate complaints. Should there be a cap on the price or quantity of wines people should place on the wines they discuss on this board or are the complaints out of line.

If you are in favor of a cap, where do you draw the line: DRC? first growths? California Cults? Tete de Cuvees? Should we only be discussing QPR wines?

Obviously, I don't like the posts I have referenced or things like them - I think they reek too much of jealousy and not much else. Different posters have different amounts of money, different priorities in life, bought wine at different times (most of my 1982 Bordeauxs cost $15 or less) or at different prices (I have bought wines at wineries in Europe at far different prices than I see in the US). But, I wanted to see what the board thinks. Is there a line that should be drawn.
If it’s not to a readers taste, then they should skip to the links enjoy.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#67 Post by James Billy » August 6th, 2019, 12:20 am

Robert Sand wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 6:24 am
Everybody is entitled to post about more or less expensive wines here imo - it´s more about the reason and attitude.
When the reason is to share informations and experiences I very much appreciate it.
When it´s about showing off "look what we are able to open, how much we can spend per night/what we have in the cellar" then it easily and quickly creates a sour taste of boastfulness.
I definitely hate it when a bottle of high class wine remains unfinished on the table due to the sheer number of bottles opened, just to taste something more rare/expensive.
It is absolutely impossible that 5 people drink up 23 bottles of wine - it´s totally excessive, it´s a complete waste, it´s a great pity. (I did not read the cited thread though).
So it´s up to everybody how he/she presents himself/hersef here - I certainly draw my conclusions from it ---
Agree totally. Everyone has the right to drink what they want and post on it. It's often educational and interesting.

It's sad to think that at least some of these tastings *may* have been conducted, partially at least, to try to make others jealous of the fantastic time these people have. I wonder if they would have even bothered if they didn't have an audience to boast to, like WB.

Many of us could afford to drink DRC, Petrus, etc., occasionally if we do desired. The fact that we don't tells it's own story.

On the other hand, if everyone just drank cheap wines on here it would be a boring place to visit! Don't stop the conspicuous consumption. Keep writing it up and post it on here, Instagram, Twitter an so on!
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#68 Post by James Billy » August 6th, 2019, 12:26 am

Andrew Hamilton wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 11:10 pm
Greg K wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 10:31 am
I think your real question is whether we should ban Instagram. neener
That's what I thought as well of when reading this thread. Recently over there I saw someone get dressed down for posting a Bourgogne bottle photo. Something along the lines of "It's just a Bourgogne Blanc". You can probably guess the bottle and vintage by looking at the front page of Wine Talk.

I was actually taken aback but couldn't be bothered enough to comment. And for what it's worth it appears the post has since been pulled down. But still, the way I read the comment it appeared the person was borderline wineshaming someone for posting a humble Bourgogne (granted from a not so humble producer).
If that's true, the 'shamer' is a complete a-hole.

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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#69 Post by Mark Golodetz » August 6th, 2019, 3:42 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 7:16 pm
Mark Golodetz wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 6:09 pm
No, I think Howard’s subtext is if we want to enjoy the balla threads, stop kvetching about excess.
Agreed. But even more immediately, I really did not like it when you posted about a way for board members to get wines at a lower price and got slammed for it because the poster could not afford the quantity of wine to be bought (which he was incorrect about).
Thanks; I just put it down to stupidity and jealousy.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#70 Post by Markus S » August 6th, 2019, 4:36 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 7:16 pm
Mark Golodetz wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 6:09 pm
No, I think Howard’s subtext is if we want to enjoy the balla threads, stop kvetching about excess.
Agreed. But even more immediately, I really did not like it when you posted about a way for board members to get wines at a lower price and got slammed for it because the poster could not afford the quantity of wine to be bought (which he was incorrect about).
Howard, this sounds like the comment I made on a thread I cannot find anymore. I think my complaint was of someone buying for a business (as 'ITB' implies). I don't think it had anything to do with affording quantity as one of how much wine would it take for a simple consumer to make the arbitrage worthwhile. And then things got twisted around while I was out of town.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#71 Post by Ian Sutton » August 6th, 2019, 8:20 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 4:38 am
I have been reading a number of posts lately by members calling out others for posting about something they perceived to be too elite.
I'd say it's not the "what", but rather the "how".

Done with the passion of a wine enthusiast, I'm sure this will shine through.

Done with the passion of someone wanting to be seen as a big player, I'm sure this will shine through.

Wine forums already discuss a tiny fraction of the wine drunk, and even the cheapest wines talked about here would be shockingly expensive to many ordinary people for whom wine is just another commodity. This forum appears to post about more high end wines than other forums I post on. It is what it is and I'd not criticise the wines posted, but rather anyone wishing to project a '12 angry men' (of e-bob days) style image of 'look at me' excess.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#72 Post by Rudi Finkler » August 6th, 2019, 8:31 am

Ian Sutton wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 8:20 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 4:38 am
I have been reading a number of posts lately by members calling out others for posting about something they perceived to be too elite.
I'd say it's not the "what", but rather the "how".

Done with the passion of a wine enthusiast, I'm sure this will shine through.

Done with the passion of someone wanting to be seen as a big player, I'm sure this will shine through.

Wine forums already discuss a tiny fraction of the wine drunk, and even the cheapest wines talked about here would be shockingly expensive to many ordinary people for whom wine is just another commodity. This forum appears to post about more high end wines than other forums I post on. It is what it is and I'd not criticise the wines posted, but rather anyone wishing to project a '12 angry men' (of e-bob days) style image of 'look at me' excess.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#73 Post by Anton D » August 6th, 2019, 8:32 am

Kris Patten wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 8:37 pm
Welcome to wine on the internet, there will always be jealousy masked as concern for the poor bottles being opened.
Welcome to wine on the internet, there will always be social signaling masked as "we all know this is about good friends and sharing good times" right before the exsessibe balla bragging starts. [cheers.gif]

I'm fine with all of it.

Complain, brag, share, just, please, be sure to post pics!!!! champagne.gif
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#74 Post by Josh Grossman » August 6th, 2019, 11:16 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 11:36 am
I stopped posting on Squires about the OTT lunch we had every year. Inevitably by post 5 or 6, someone would say that we should not be drinking so many great wines, and Somehow they managed to inject moral indignation and that we were committing some sin. No need for extra grief I decided, get enough from my cat.

More respectful here; we did a minor version this year, which resulted in some lively debate. The thread with 5 people and 23 wines was a train wreck. Sad.
Mark, I really love your posts--and feel like you've started a few threads about how it's unfortunate that the youth is getting priced out of top wines. For me, that is somewhat true. I appreciate people with enough foresight who have bought those gems back in the day and hope I am doing the same. I certainly don't hold it against them and love reading about things I haven't had the chance to try. If I do get to try those gems--it's mostly through tastings (like you mention) or generous older friends. The only thing that is a turn off to me is conspicuous consumption--which I've never had the slightest inclination of from anyone on this board. I personally don't think any 750mL bottle of wine is worth over $500, to me. That said--I have Clape, Chave, and Sorrel that I think are going to be worth stupid amounts in the future. I can't wait to open them (in 15 to 20 years) and share them with friends or family and share my tasting notes on here.

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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#75 Post by Mark Golodetz » August 6th, 2019, 5:38 pm

Thank you.
You will enjoy those older Rhones, and my bet is on the Chave ending up as being your favorite.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#76 Post by Craig G » August 6th, 2019, 5:49 pm

Looks like Kevin was emboldened by this thread :-)
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#77 Post by john stimson » August 6th, 2019, 7:08 pm

Yeah, but he had to leave early to take a nap.

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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#78 Post by Mike Francisco » August 7th, 2019, 5:11 am

Howard,
It's just the man trying to keep you down, he's always going to try and keep you down. Fight the power!

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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#79 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 7th, 2019, 6:41 am

Does Ovid put me in the BAller club?

I’m so honored.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#80 Post by Greg K » August 7th, 2019, 6:52 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 6:41 am
Does Ovid put me in the BAller club?

I’m so honored.
I think this thread was started to prevent certain sockless people from posting about certain over the top mountain Rolland wines.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#81 Post by J a y H a c k » August 7th, 2019, 7:37 am

Greg K wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 6:52 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 6:41 am
Does Ovid put me in the BAller club?

I’m so honored.
I think this thread was started to prevent certain sockless people from posting about certain over the top mountain Rolland wines.
I thought it was started to stop me from posting photos of FKALBTG dinners. I was forbidden to bring a Saxum Magnum, so there is none of that. The Borgogno was a 1961.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#82 Post by Anton D » August 7th, 2019, 8:21 am

Maybe it's time we assign "levels" to ourselves.

I propose baseball style, Rookie, A, AA, AAA, Major League.

People like Francoise, Favre, a few others....major leaguers. Making boilermakers with unicorn white Burgundy and unicorn Champagne, wines from the French Third Republic, wines that even Rudy wishes he could forge, swinging heavy lumber and aiming for the bleachers kind of stuff.

AAA: Our upper enders here. No names. Top 1%-ish. Reverse batting averages of .333 or lower for drinkers/bottles at their events. These people keep the major league oenophiles on their toes, not looking over their shoulder so much as giving the major leaguers something to exist above.

AA: Top 50% here. Able to post about a 100 dollar bottle, maybe even some 200 dollar bottles. Usually only a bottle per person kind of drinker.

A: Enthusiasts who would still crush a civilian, and make up for in palate what they lack in budget.

Rookie: Working on knowledge and condescension, hoping for promotion.

We can self identify if we like.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#83 Post by John Morris » August 7th, 2019, 8:25 am

Anton D wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 8:21 am
Maybe it's time we assign "levels" to ourselves.

I propose baseball style, Rookie, A, AA, AAA, Major League.

People like Francoise, Favre, a few others....major leaguers. Making boilermakers with unicorn white Burgundy and unicorn Champagne, wines from the French Third Republic, wines that even Rudy wishes he could forge, swinging heavy lumber and aiming for the bleachers kind of stuff.

AAA: Our upper enders here. No names. Top 1%-ish. Reverse batting averages of .333 or lower for drinkers/bottles at their events. These people keep the major league oenophiles on their toes, not looking over their shoulder so much as giving the major leaguers something to exist above.

AA: Top 50% here. Able to post about a 100 dollar bottle, maybe even some 200 dollar bottles. Usually only a bottle per person kind of drinker.

A: Enthusiasts who would still crush a civilian, and make up for in palate what they lack in budget.

Rookie: Working on knowledge and condescension, hoping for promotion.

We can self identify if we like.
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#84 Post by Greg K » August 7th, 2019, 9:46 am

Anton D wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 8:21 am
Maybe it's time we assign "levels" to ourselves.

I propose baseball style, Rookie, A, AA, AAA, Major League.

People like Francoise, Favre, a few others....major leaguers. Making boilermakers with unicorn white Burgundy and unicorn Champagne, wines from the French Third Republic, wines that even Rudy wishes he could forge, swinging heavy lumber and aiming for the bleachers kind of stuff.

AAA: Our upper enders here. No names. Top 1%-ish. Reverse batting averages of .333 or lower for drinkers/bottles at their events. These people keep the major league oenophiles on their toes, not looking over their shoulder so much as giving the major leaguers something to exist above.

AA: Top 50% here. Able to post about a 100 dollar bottle, maybe even some 200 dollar bottles. Usually only a bottle per person kind of drinker.

A: Enthusiasts who would still crush a civilian, and make up for in palate what they lack in budget.

Rookie: Working on knowledge and condescension, hoping for promotion.

We can self identify if we like.
These need better names. The AAA tier should clearly be renamed "I'm not a player I just crush a lot".
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#85 Post by Claus Jeppesen » August 7th, 2019, 10:18 am

It should be prohibited to post comments about cheap wines like Lanessan
Even if it is French
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#86 Post by Humberto Dorta » August 7th, 2019, 11:24 am

Lolz
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#87 Post by Jim Stewart » August 7th, 2019, 11:51 am

Anton D wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 8:21 am
Maybe it's time we assign "levels" to ourselves.

I propose baseball style, Rookie, A, AA, AAA, Major League.

People like Francoise, Favre, a few others....major leaguers. Making boilermakers with unicorn white Burgundy and unicorn Champagne, wines from the French Third Republic, wines that even Rudy wishes he could forge, swinging heavy lumber and aiming for the bleachers kind of stuff.

AAA: Our upper enders here. No names. Top 1%-ish. Reverse batting averages of .333 or lower for drinkers/bottles at their events. These people keep the major league oenophiles on their toes, not looking over their shoulder so much as giving the major leaguers something to exist above.

AA: Top 50% here. Able to post about a 100 dollar bottle, maybe even some 200 dollar bottles. Usually only a bottle per person kind of drinker.

A: Enthusiasts who would still crush a civilian, and make up for in palate what they lack in budget.

Rookie: Working on knowledge and condescension, hoping for promotion.

We can self identify if we like.
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Marshall Gelb
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#88 Post by Marshall Gelb » August 7th, 2019, 1:34 pm

I have been on wine boards, including this one, for a long time and this is an issue that rears its' head periodically . We all have different levels of income, and how we spend our money is personal. There are many things out there, wine included, that I cannot afford. By the same token, I can afford things that many others cannot. This is a wine board, and by definition, is about a luxury item. I love reading about great wines, even those I will never taste, and I see absolutely no reason to complain about the wines that others are lucky enough to possess. FWIW, I am lucky enough to have purchased many wines years ago that I could not possibly afford in todays market. I am constantly sharing them and drinking them with friends. I don't know what else special wines are good for.

Cheers!
Marshall [cheers.gif]
A quién tiene buen vino no le faltan amigos.

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Howard Cooper
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#89 Post by Howard Cooper » August 7th, 2019, 5:03 pm

Marshall Gelb wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 1:34 pm
I have been on wine boards, including this one, for a long time and this is an issue that rears its' head periodically . We all have different levels of income, and how we spend our money is personal. There are many things out there, wine included, that I cannot afford. By the same token, I can afford things that many others cannot. This is a wine board, and by definition, is about a luxury item. I love reading about great wines, even those I will never taste, and I see absolutely no reason to complain about the wines that others are lucky enough to possess. FWIW, I am lucky enough to have purchased many wines years ago that I could not possibly afford in todays market. I am constantly sharing them and drinking them with friends. I don't know what else special wines are good for.

Cheers!
Marshall [cheers.gif]
Marshall, you can post anything you want about any wines you want as long as you continue to post about restaurants, etc., in Europe that you visit over time. I have really found these posts tremendously helpful when I plan vacations. [cheers.gif]
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

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Marshall Gelb
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#90 Post by Marshall Gelb » August 9th, 2019, 2:44 pm

Howard; Thanks and absolutely! Love to post on all aspects of food and wine and travel. This board is a treasure trove of wonderful information.
Cheers!
Marshall
A quién tiene buen vino no le faltan amigos.

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John Glas
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Re: Is it legitimate to post about expensive wines?

#91 Post by John Glas » August 9th, 2019, 3:15 pm

Many of these great wines did not cost much back in the day. If you buy them now that is a different story.

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