US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

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Alan Rath
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1051 Post by Alan Rath »

Now this:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/0 ... nce-095668

"Tech giants push for tariffs as fight over French tax heats up

Amazon, Google and Facebook endorsed the administration’s plan to slap tariffs on $2.4 billion worth of French cheese, Champagne, handbags and other goods."

Gee, I wonder who will win. Small importers/retailers, or big Tech giants...
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1052 Post by Markus S »

Alan Rath wrote: January 9th, 2020, 12:11 pm Now this:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/0 ... nce-095668

"Tech giants push for tariffs as fight over French tax heats up

Amazon, Google and Facebook endorsed the administration’s plan to slap tariffs on $2.4 billion worth of French cheese, Champagne, handbags and other goods."

Gee, I wonder who will win. Small importers/retailers, or big Tech giants...
I think this in itself is a good reason to boycott those companies, as only money seems to talk and the 'little people' don't have that much of it. :(
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1053 Post by Nola Palomar »

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0009-0354
Here is one supporting this tariff. You could send him an email...
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1054 Post by Dennis Atick »

Markus S wrote: January 9th, 2020, 12:18 pm

I think this in itself is a good reason to boycott those companies, as only money seems to talk and the 'little people' don't have that much of it. :(
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1055 Post by AndrewH »

Nola Palomar wrote: January 9th, 2020, 12:43 pm https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0009-0354
Here is one supporting this tariff. You could send him an email...
It's not really supporting the tariff - it's supporting the objective of a more sensible taxation system for digital services.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1056 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

Nola Palomar wrote: January 9th, 2020, 12:43 pm https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0009-0354
Here is one supporting this tariff. You could send him an email...
He was only supporting of an analysis of the impact, as well as finding an overall solution. Rather wishy-washy if you ask me.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1057 Post by Joe Abruzzo »

Haven't read this entire thread (too many pages), but got an email from Moore Brothers in NJ/DE/NJ the other day. They purchased 33 containers of wine in December to arrive before tariff increases to minimize impact in coming year. That's quite a purchase!

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1058 Post by Nola Palomar »

D@vid Bu3ker wrote: January 9th, 2020, 1:14 pm
Nola Palomar wrote: January 9th, 2020, 12:43 pm https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0009-0354
Here is one supporting this tariff. You could send him an email...
He was only supporting of an analysis of the impact, as well as finding an overall solution. Rather wishy-washy if you ask me.
I see that. There are numerous others though supporting the USTR's recommendation for the tax.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1059 Post by Ron Erickson »

Granted the source, but the fine dining industry is about to feel the wrath very soon too. Considering the profit margins off wine, something will have to give.



https://www.winespectator.com/articles/ ... ne-tariffs

According to the wine directors interviewed for this story, the 25 percent tariff hasn’t triggered major price increases yet, as many importers and distributors opted to absorb the bulk of the tax during the holiday season or sell through existing inventory while awaiting a resolution. But with no reprieve in sight, most importers have told clients to expect prices to start rising this month.

“We are definitely concerned. Guests largely have no idea, and the idea of wines becoming two times as expensive is beyond frightening,” wine director Carlin Karr of Frasca Food & Wine in Boulder, Colo., told Wine Spectator via email. “As with all rising costs in the hospitality industry, there is only so much we can pass on to the guest and survive.”
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1060 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

Nola Palomar wrote: January 9th, 2020, 1:30 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote: January 9th, 2020, 1:14 pm
Nola Palomar wrote: January 9th, 2020, 12:43 pm https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0009-0354
Here is one supporting this tariff. You could send him an email...
He was only supporting of an analysis of the impact, as well as finding an overall solution. Rather wishy-washy if you ask me.
I see that. There are numerous others though supporting the USTR's recommendation for the tax.
Unfortunately true.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1061 Post by Mattstolz »

Alan Rath wrote: January 9th, 2020, 12:11 pm Now this:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/0 ... nce-095668

"Tech giants push for tariffs as fight over French tax heats up

Amazon, Google and Facebook endorsed the administration’s plan to slap tariffs on $2.4 billion worth of French cheese, Champagne, handbags and other goods."

Gee, I wonder who will win. Small importers/retailers, or big Tech giants...
no surprise there. since tech giant taxes are also involved in this fight pretty heavily. aren't they the next in line to be a trade cause after aerospace?

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1062 Post by AndrewH »

^ I think tech is a different issue. Aerospace is an issue because of the Boeing/Airbus competition along with the national security desire to have a "domestic" company that can make planes and rockets for defense purposes.

Tech is just sloshing with money. I'm sure Europe would like to have its own set of tech companies, but there's not the same domestic manufacturing/nat.sec. issue along side it - if there's no German facebook, no one's losing a war because of it.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1063 Post by Mattstolz »

AndrewH wrote: January 9th, 2020, 7:31 pm ^ I think tech is a different issue. Aerospace is an issue because of the Boeing/Airbus competition along with the national security desire to have a "domestic" company that can make planes and rockets for defense purposes.

Tech is just sloshing with money. I'm sure Europe would like to have its own set of tech companies, but there's not the same domestic manufacturing/nat.sec. issue along side it - if there's no German facebook, no one's losing a war because of it.
yeah, I thought I had also remembered some hiccups over France trying to tax Facebook (and a response from trump somewhere along the lines of "no I wanna tax facebook!") around the same time period as the original 25% tariffs.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1064 Post by AndrewH »

Mattstolz wrote: January 9th, 2020, 7:36 pm
AndrewH wrote: January 9th, 2020, 7:31 pm ^ I think tech is a different issue. Aerospace is an issue because of the Boeing/Airbus competition along with the national security desire to have a "domestic" company that can make planes and rockets for defense purposes.

Tech is just sloshing with money. I'm sure Europe would like to have its own set of tech companies, but there's not the same domestic manufacturing/nat.sec. issue along side it - if there's no German facebook, no one's losing a war because of it.
yeah, I thought I had also remembered some hiccups over France trying to tax Facebook (and a response from trump somewhere along the lines of "no I wanna tax facebook!") around the same time period as the original 25% tariffs.
Oh, that's almost exactly what he said - "we should tax them not France". But I don't think it's going to be the same type of ongoing trade battle. There's a legit issue of how to tax tech cos. that currently can somewhat unilaterally determine where they earned their revenue, avoiding higher tax places. And there's a recognition that can't be "right". So there's an international effort to work out a sane system, but France got impatient and said "we're going to impose this tax, pending the resolution of that" and that's created the issue. No one's looking to subsidize the tech companies - everyone is just looking to get a piece of the tax revenue.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1065 Post by JonathanG »

Nola Palomar wrote: January 9th, 2020, 1:30 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote: January 9th, 2020, 1:14 pm
Nola Palomar wrote: January 9th, 2020, 12:43 pm https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0009-0354
Here is one supporting this tariff. You could send him an email...
He was only supporting of an analysis of the impact, as well as finding an overall solution. Rather wishy-washy if you ask me.
I see that. There are numerous others though supporting the USTR's recommendation for the tax.
Nola I saw you quoted in the WSJ article from yesterday, very cool. You're officially famous.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1066 Post by Robert Grenley »

Late to this thread, so probably much of this has been discussed already. I have already written my congresspeople and posted comments on the gov reg site as suggested.

In talking with a friend who is a longtime local wine retailer, he said that he might have to close shop if this goes through and persists, and pointed out some aspects that a I had not considered, though many of you, I am sure, have.
I figured that European wine prices would double (or close to that), but he pointed out that we might not even see the wines become available...importers would, upon the wines arriving in the US, have to come up with large sums of cash to pay the tariffs in order to take possession, and many companies would not be able to do that. Smaller companies that depend upon importing fine European wines might go under, and larger importers who make the bulk of their profit from liquor sales might not care to make the cash outlay, particularly if sales lag. Here in WA state retailers cannot import, so we are already at the mercy of what distributors decide to invest in, and Burgundy and other small niche items may suffer further if importers and distributors go under, pass on allocations, or find other markets.

He was saying that 65% of his sales are in European wines, so losing a good share of that due to higher pricing and lower availability will make his business unsustainable given the low profit margin and the operating costs. Also, he was saying that those fine European wine sales are the ones with a quick turnaround, the ones that are perhaps more allocated and thus ordered or committed to or purchased more quickly, as compared to the domestic wines that tend to sit in inventory longer...thus the effect on the rate of cash flow of losing those sales would be even more devastating.

Although I have a full cellar and am near the end of my wine buying “lifespan”, There are not many wines that I would continue to buy if their prices doubled...not $30 Bourgognes at $60, nor $150 premier crus at $300, and so on.

I hate to see this shit storm hurt so many people in all phases of the business and all stages of their careers.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1067 Post by Nola Palomar »

If the intent is to try to squeeze the producers and thus hurt the EU it will. But and it’s is very important to understand. Like me, most wineries in Spain (and Europe) are built on family owned properties and the only cost are those to operate. I own my 100 hectare farm outright. I have less than 30,000€ debit to the banks in Spain. I have two full time employees that earn around 10€ an hour plus my farmer lives on the property and has housing, electric and water. I have the cost of my enologist and my accountant and seasonal workers for harvest. Then the actual costs to operate, bottles, corks, labels, capsules, machinery and machinery repairs and maintenance. That’s it.
Successful people always look for the advantage and in tough times look for opportunities. The EU is not bound by the US market only. I am expanding my EU market and speaking with other countries importers as well. If I establish those new outlets, I won’t turn them off when the Tariffs go away. I will continue that new supply chain. As a European business I will think twice before trading with a country that trade depends on politics. Trade does not have to be in constant conflict. I said this in the beginning of this admins time that trade is on a very fine balance and those that truly don’t understand should not touch it. It’s like jenga.
The real losers are the US businesses. The price of wine will be no less than 150%. That is, like it’s been mentioned above, “if” you can get it. Which at 100% guaranteed, won’t be happening. Someone posted in one of these threads that an importer just imported 33 containers of wine, that’s huge, but in perspective it’s a drop in the bucket at 37,000 cases across 50 states? We would, in a healthy year import 2-3 containers per year and I’m a tiny speck in the map of the US wine importers. I think trade between WB’s Commerce Corner is going to get really active if it goes through. And as a note, I do have a supply of a number of my wines here yet and EVOO is on its way. Whether it gets tariffed or not???
The digital tariff is more limited in the number of items, but the 100% Airbus tariff is far reaching and will strangle US businesses. I am not finished fighting this but those who benefit from trade with the EU should stand, be counted and fighting against these tariffs.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1068 Post by Jud Reis »

Nola - excellent point. These customer and supply chain relationships take a long time to build and once changed are going to change trade flows going forward. I think American farmers are going to learn that lesson the hard way when they try to get Chinese customers back from countries like Brazil who have filled the void created by tariffs.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1069 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

Tasting group last night, and our member who runs a large liquor store said he thinks the layers of the chain will absorb the tariffs. I asked him how he came to that opinion, and he said (and this is a real quote) "25% isn't much across the chain." I asked him about 100%, and he just shrugged.

He'll likely be OK regardless of what happens, as his shop is a destination for craft beer and high end spirits, as much if not more than for wine. That may explain his lack of concern.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1070 Post by AndrewH »

For whatever it's worth, one of our local news stations in DC had a story yesterday about the tariffs - interviewed a wine shop owner (or manager) talking about nice ~$40 Champagne that at $80 . . . "pfft".

So for what it's worth the negative impact starts to be getting some legs in places (WSJ, Times, etc.)
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1071 Post by Dennis Borczon »

I am convinced that the whole process is going to grind forward. It seems doubtful that a handful of complaints from individual or small businesses will make much of a difference. Sad but true. Once this lurches forward I am not sure that even a change in the occupant of the White House will reverse all of this. When the big tech companies get involved in the fight, as opposed to a single company like Boeing, it will be a long war. Really the only hope as I see it for a quick resolution is for the Euros to cave quickly. I do not know European politics well enough to comment on the spines in places like France, Spain, Germany etc and how much they will grit their teeth and fight it out. I do think that this political climate is pretty set on pushing our economic muscle to get results, even if there is collateral damage. If there has been one thing that seems predictable in the US over the last 3 years, this may be it.

Again I hope that the small guys survive somehow. But it is looking pretty grim.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1072 Post by Markus S »

Dennis Borczon wrote: January 10th, 2020, 5:26 am I am convinced that the whole process is going to grind forward. It seems doubtful that a handful of complaints from individual or small businesses will make much of a difference. Sad but true. Once this lurches forward I am not sure that even a change in the occupant of the White House will reverse all of this. When the big tech companies get involved in the fight, as opposed to a single company like Boeing, it will be a long war. Really the only hope as I see it for a quick resolution is for the Euros to cave quickly. I do not know European politics well enough to comment on the spines in places like France, Spain, Germany etc and how much they will grit their teeth and fight it out. I do think that this political climate is pretty set on pushing our economic muscle to get results, even if there is collateral damage. If there has been one thing that seems predictable in the US over the last 3 years, this may be it.

Again I hope that the small guys survive somehow. But it is looking pretty grim.
In the not so distant future, we'll be looking back at the 2000's-2010's being the golden age of wine in America, almost in the same way people felt nostalgic before Prohibition kicked in.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1073 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f »

As I read the situation, the big tech companies don't want tariffs on wine. They just want tariffs on European products to use as pressure to oppose the DST, and it's the USTR who has proposed including wine on the (long) list of European products. So it's possible to get a couple of products removed from the list, or a couple of proposed tariffs reduced in amount, without necessarily having to "beat the big tech companies" to do so.

But, of course, I'm sure that those involved in importing handbags, and cheese, and every other product on the list were also out there asking that the product they are interested in be removed from the list. So if the tariffs go forward, someone on the list is going to get hurt, and maybe everyone. The only way for everyone to "win" is for the US and the EU to make a deal on the DST and on the aircraft subsidies, and it's hard to say how likely that is based on scraps of info fed to the press.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1074 Post by Dan Kravitz »

There are an almost infinite number of permutations here.

If it's Boeing vs American wine importers, Boeing wins.

It it's Boeing vs the entire European agriculture and luxury industry, it's closer to a level playing field.

Please remember that the EU combined is a larger economy than the US. Even after you take out England (it won't be the UK for long after Brexit).

Here is a link to a hopeful (for me, Nola and other importers) article from the NYT with many quotes from the French Minister of Finance. If you don't want to read it, he says that as long as negotiations about the tech tax are in progress, there should be no further tariffs. He says that if there are, the tech tax will quickly be expanded to about another 15 countries.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/07/busi ... l-tax.html

I am not a happy camper, but if tariffs stay at their current levels indefinitely, I still have a livelihood.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1075 Post by Nola Palomar »

I am more concerned personally with the Airbus tariff. There is no one from Boeing telling the USTR that they would like to continue the negotiations or that they feel the huge amount of products affected by these tariffs could be better achieved at a lesser percentage from other HTS line items. There are zero provisions for exceptions or relief for small businesses. Last spring they had hearings and a host of affected businesses, wine & spirits, Specialty Food, EVOO, seafood, essential oils, etc all came and pleaded for the USTR to not impose the 25% tariff and the 100% would be untenable. So far, it’s fallen on deaf ears. The executive director of the North American Olive Oil Association outlined the health benefits of consuming EVOO and identified the medical literature to support his statements and just as not putting tariffs on European prescriptions and medical equipment and devices for the harm it could do to the US population. Nielsen has published that US EVOO sales are down nationwide 8%. Is this one of the ripples from the current 35% tariff, an increase in cardiovascular disease? I know many importers are trying to absorb as much as possible but cost is cost.

I am not finished with speaking out. Keep reading and not just here on WB.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1076 Post by RichardFlack »

AndrewH wrote: January 10th, 2020, 4:56 am For whatever it's worth, one of our local news stations in DC had a story yesterday about the tariffs - interviewed a wine shop owner (or manager) talking about nice ~$40 Champagne that at $80 . . . "pfft".

So for what it's worth the negative impact starts to be getting some legs in places (WSJ, Times, etc.)
Also the BBC

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1077 Post by AndrewH »

Dan Kravitz wrote: January 10th, 2020, 6:12 pm There are an almost infinite number of permutations here.

If it's Boeing vs American wine importers, Boeing wins.

It it's Boeing vs the entire European agriculture and luxury industry, it's closer to a level playing field.

Please remember that the EU combined is a larger economy than the US. Even after you take out England (it won't be the UK for long after Brexit).

Here is a link to a hopeful (for me, Nola and other importers) article from the NYT with many quotes from the French Minister of Finance. If you don't want to read it, he says that as long as negotiations about the tech tax are in progress, there should be no further tariffs. He says that if there are, the tech tax will quickly be expanded to about another 15 countries.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/07/busi ... l-tax.html

I am not a happy camper, but if tariffs stay at their current levels indefinitely, I still have a livelihood.

Dan Kravitz
What would be great if one could shift the A vs. B conversation to "wine and cheese distribution industry in the US vs. internet platforms". I'm not a fan of France's unilateral efforts to impose a tax, but we're talking about a relatively small tax on companies worth nearly $1T - a tax they should be paying *somewhere* - vs. a crippling tariff on an industry segment.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1078 Post by Tim Heaton »

Does anyone know when (day/time) there will be be disposition on this?
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1079 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

Comment period for one case closed last week. Comments for the other case close today.

So anytime after today. Beyond that is anybody's guess.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1080 Post by Nola Palomar »

Today is the last day to have the opportunity to make a comment to oppose these tariffs. I personally urge whoever has not commented to send a clear message to the USTR that these tariffs are unfair and will cause irreparable damages to the importers and the rest of the supply chain. That the largest impact will not be on the EU as intended but at home, in the US, by all of us her on WB, especially to those ITB of importing, distribution and sales. Please include olive oil in your note. Not "just" for me, but for your own personal usage. This will be cross posted in the other threads pertaining to the tariffs.
https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=USTR-2019-0003
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Michel Abood
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1081 Post by Michel Abood »

There's a bunch of industry folks in DC right now, pounding doors to get meetings with Congresscritters. I'm watching some live as they stream accounts of talking to folks who are supposedly listening with a sympathetic ear. But from what I've heard from our DC contacts, the trade rep Robert Lightizer is a believer in tariffs and under tremendous pressure to start doing something.

Better stock up on wine, cheese and yes, olive oil.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1082 Post by Matt M . »

Us Canadians have been dealing with ~100% government taxes on alcohol for decades.... :(
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1083 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

The US already has alcohol taxes at many levels. This would be the equivalent of perhaps another 50% (or more) increase in Canada.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1084 Post by AndrewH »

Michel Abood wrote: January 13th, 2020, 3:44 pm There's a bunch of industry folks in DC right now, pounding doors to get meetings with Congresscritters. I'm watching some live as they stream accounts of talking to folks who are supposedly listening with a sympathetic ear. But from what I've heard from our DC contacts, the trade rep Robert Lightizer is a believer in tariffs and under tremendous pressure to start doing something.

Better stock up on wine, cheese and yes, olive oil.

I think the 25% tariffs for the Airbus subsidies are more likely to start soon; I'm less sure about the 100% tariffs for the France DST, because there are ongoing discussions to get a global resolution. Sure, this administration has often threatened/used tariffs to try to gain (at least in their perception) an advantage in negotations, but I'm less sure that tactic will be fruitful in a multilateral set of discussions because the answer may be "screw you - we're all going to put taxes on GAFA - feel free to tariff us all and crater your consumer economy".
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1085 Post by G. D y e r »

Presuming this tariff isn't resolved, where do our dollars and importers go?

I suspect I'll probably investigate WA and OR wines more deeply. Not because they're equivalent to French and Italian wines, but for the sake of variety.

Importers probably will have to focus on South America if they have a hope of survival and, to a lesser extend, Australia and New Zealand. But again, that is not a 1-to-1 swap for European wines.

All of this is bad news, from the industry down to consumers' freedom of choice, but even as a consumer I need to think about contingencies.
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In that way, he is like cornerback Darrelle Revis, deserving of his own island, Mangold Island, if you will. “That would be a rusty, filthy island where people wear ripped jeans and stay in hotel rooms that are half price,” tight end Dustin Keller said. “But they would serve wine, and only the finest for Nick Mangold.”

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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1086 Post by jason stein »

G. D y e r wrote: January 14th, 2020, 8:17 am Presuming this tariff isn't resolved, where do our dollars and importers go?

I suspect I'll probably investigate WA and OR wines more deeply. Not because they're equivalent to French and Italian wines, but for the sake of variety.

Importers probably will have to focus on South America if they have a hope of survival and, to a lesser extend, Australia and New Zealand. But again, that is not a 1-to-1 swap for European wines.

All of this is bad news, from the industry down to consumers' freedom of choice, but even as a consumer I need to think about contingencies.
If we see 100% tariffs, I will likely halt all purchases since 90% of my cellar is Burgundy, and at 2x+ current prices the value just isn't there. As such I've ramped up purchases over the past couple months, and have bought a couple hundred bottles strategically when I've seen favorable prices on favorite producers.

The way I see it, there is no harm in frontloading purchases now, as at best pries will remain flat, but at worst they will skyrocket.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1087 Post by Dennis Atick »

I'm too lazy to look it up, and it's probably mentioned in this thread, but when would the 100% tariffs go into effect? Like- when will the prices hit shops, importers, restaurants, consumers?
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1088 Post by jason stein »

Dennis Atick wrote: January 14th, 2020, 8:40 am I'm too lazy to look it up, and it's probably mentioned in this thread, but when would the 100% tariffs go into effect? Like- when will the prices hit shops, importers, restaurants, consumers?
My understanding is it could happen whenever, be it today, tomorrow, or a year from now.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1089 Post by Michae1 P0wers »

G. D y e r wrote: January 14th, 2020, 8:17 am Presuming this tariff isn't resolved, where do our dollars and importers go?

I suspect I'll probably investigate WA and OR wines more deeply. Not because they're equivalent to French and Italian wines, but for the sake of variety.

Importers probably will have to focus on South America if they have a hope of survival and, to a lesser extend, Australia and New Zealand. But again, that is not a 1-to-1 swap for European wines.

All of this is bad news, from the industry down to consumers' freedom of choice, but even as a consumer I need to think about contingencies.
As someone who already drinks a fair amount of Oregon PN, I would guess I'd buy a bit more from there, and explore more whites from Oregon. Mostly though I plan to buy quantities of the wines I regularly consume then try to heavily curtail spending with the hopes the tariffs are short-lived.

I have already found Oregon pinot noir to be a good substitute for Burgundy for my personal preferences, though surely many disagree. I've had less success with replacing Chablis and white Burgundy. Areas I see as being particularly problematic to replace are dry whites generally, German Riesling, N. Rhone Syrah, Champagne, Italian reds, Rose, Beaujolais, and the Loire. My cellar is deeper on the reds. Rose and whites will be tough and I can see myself drinking more beer or cocktails in warmer weather considering I don't really drink red wine in the summer.

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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1090 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

Yes, the imposition of tariffs can happen at any moment from now until whenever.

The tariffs will apply as items reach the designated port of entry. Customs can (though they are not required to) post a notice of implementation that gives time for items already en route to clear, but there's no way to know if this will happen.

How fast it ripples through the supply chain is anybody's guess.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1091 Post by Troy Stark »

Michae1 P0wers wrote: January 14th, 2020, 8:54 am I have already found Oregon pinot noir to be a good substitute for Burgundy for my personal preferences, though surely many disagree. I've had less success with replacing Chablis and white Burgundy.
Try Adelsheim from 2016 forward. The assistant WM, who is in charge of their Chard, is a personal friend of mine and is a huge Burg-o-phile. The base WV Chard is a ringer for Chablis to me, while their higher end Chards are reminiscent of Chassagne/Puligny/St. Aubin.

On the higher end, seek out the Chards from Lingua Franca and Walter Scott. Interesting note, the assistant WM at LF is married to the assistant WM at Adelsheim. A family who drinks Chardonnay together, stays together, I guess. :)
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1092 Post by Nola Palomar »

AndrewH wrote: January 14th, 2020, 8:09 am
Michel Abood wrote: January 13th, 2020, 3:44 pm There's a bunch of industry folks in DC right now, pounding doors to get meetings with Congresscritters. I'm watching some live as they stream accounts of talking to folks who are supposedly listening with a sympathetic ear. But from what I've heard from our DC contacts, the trade rep Robert Lightizer is a believer in tariffs and under tremendous pressure to start doing something.

Better stock up on wine, cheese and yes, olive oil.

I think the 25% tariffs for the Airbus subsidies are more likely to start soon; I'm less sure about the 100% tariffs for the France DST, because there are ongoing discussions to get a global resolution. Sure, this administration has often threatened/used tariffs to try to gain (at least in their perception) an advantage in negotations, but I'm less sure that tactic will be fruitful in a multilateral set of discussions because the answer may be "screw you - we're all going to put taxes on GAFA - feel free to tariff us all and crater your consumer economy".
Andrew the initial tariff for Airbus at 25% was started last fall. The increase of 100% on just about ALL European wines and olive oils, olives, cheeses, jams, seafood, and too numerous to count other products is what we are waiting for.
As far as importers, will they head to South America?
Establishing networks with producers takes a lot of time and work. May some big importers will try that, but what a fvck-up.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1093 Post by Victor Hong »

Waiting in the dark, for the Scud missile.

https://www.grubstreet.com/2020/01/the- ... riffs.html
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1094 Post by Nola Palomar »

I have not had this degree of anxiety for many months...
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1095 Post by Mattstolz »

Michae1 P0wers wrote: January 14th, 2020, 8:54 am
G. D y e r wrote: January 14th, 2020, 8:17 am Presuming this tariff isn't resolved, where do our dollars and importers go?

I suspect I'll probably investigate WA and OR wines more deeply. Not because they're equivalent to French and Italian wines, but for the sake of variety.

Importers probably will have to focus on South America if they have a hope of survival and, to a lesser extend, Australia and New Zealand. But again, that is not a 1-to-1 swap for European wines.

All of this is bad news, from the industry down to consumers' freedom of choice, but even as a consumer I need to think about contingencies.
As someone who already drinks a fair amount of Oregon PN, I would guess I'd buy a bit more from there, and explore more whites from Oregon. Mostly though I plan to buy quantities of the wines I regularly consume then try to heavily curtail spending with the hopes the tariffs are short-lived.

I have already found Oregon pinot noir to be a good substitute for Burgundy for my personal preferences, though surely many disagree. I've had less success with replacing Chablis and white Burgundy. Areas I see as being particularly problematic to replace are dry whites generally, German Riesling, N. Rhone Syrah, Champagne, Italian reds, Rose, Beaujolais, and the Loire. My cellar is deeper on the reds. Rose and whites will be tough and I can see myself drinking more beer or cocktails in warmer weather considering I don't really drink red wine in the summer.
seconding the recc on Walter Scott. The viticole bottling from last year would have been right at home with premier cru white burgundies (and maybe even plenty of grand crus)

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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1096 Post by David_K »

Are people stocking up now? How fast do we think existing stock will be cleaned out (assuming no price hikes) after (and if) a 100% tariff is announced?
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1097 Post by Victor Hong »

David_K wrote: January 14th, 2020, 5:17 pm Are people stocking up now? How fast do we think existing stock will be cleaned out (assuming no price hikes) after (and if) a 100% tariff is announced?
Maybe. Yes.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1098 Post by Josh Grossman »

Nola Palomar wrote: January 14th, 2020, 4:27 pm I have not had this degree of anxiety for many months...
Want to get a lake house on Lake Erie or the islands with me? Maybe take up sailing? Pelee Island has an airport and is in Canada. It's nearly as nice as Norman's Cay in the Bahama's for certain things.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1099 Post by Marcus Goodfellow »

Markus S wrote: January 9th, 2020, 12:18 pm
Alan Rath wrote: January 9th, 2020, 12:11 pm Now this:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/0 ... nce-095668

"Tech giants push for tariffs as fight over French tax heats up

Amazon, Google and Facebook endorsed the administration’s plan to slap tariffs on $2.4 billion worth of French cheese, Champagne, handbags and other goods."

Gee, I wonder who will win. Small importers/retailers, or big Tech giants...
I think this in itself is a good reason to boycott those companies, as only money seems to talk and the 'little people' don't have that much of it. :(
+1

I already actively boycott Amazon. I don’t use Facebook but if this tariff goes through I am going to delete my account. I’m no fan of Apple’s tactics and choices, and while I liked the products for years, they are a hard company to support.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1100 Post by Brady Daniels »

Marcus Goodfellow wrote: January 14th, 2020, 5:44 pm I’m no fan of Apple’s tactics and choices, and while I liked the products for years, they are a hard company to support.
Apple isn’t mentioned in this article.
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