US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

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Nola Palomar
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1301 Post by Nola Palomar » February 15th, 2020, 6:25 am

Short and direct, but our conservative members will read it!! I’m at the very end.

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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1302 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » February 15th, 2020, 6:28 am

Kevin Sidders wrote:
February 15th, 2020, 5:23 am
Impressive work by the powerful prune juice lobby...
Probably AARP.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1303 Post by RichardFlack » February 15th, 2020, 6:31 am

Kevin Sidders wrote:
February 15th, 2020, 5:23 am
Impressive work by the powerful prune juice lobby...
Who knew they could block something?

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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1304 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » February 15th, 2020, 6:36 am

RichardFlack wrote:
February 15th, 2020, 6:31 am
Kevin Sidders wrote:
February 15th, 2020, 5:23 am
Impressive work by the powerful prune juice lobby...
Who knew they could block something?
Negative. They caused the change to slide through.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1305 Post by Patrick T a y l o r » February 15th, 2020, 6:54 am

A steaming hot mess
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1306 Post by Scott Brunson » February 15th, 2020, 7:14 am

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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1307 Post by John Morris » February 28th, 2020, 2:23 pm

Here's an amusing statistic, apropos of that asinine trade press release saying that all that good wine that Americans used to drink is being diverted to China, based on one month's import data, (page 26, post #1280) and the trade stats showing the drop in French imports after the tariffs were imposed.

While overall imports were down, look at what happened to French imports over 14% ABV -- which were exempt from the 25% tariff.

Think there might be a little reclassification/relabeling going on?

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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1308 Post by Oliver McCrum » February 28th, 2020, 4:26 pm

Absolutely not.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1309 Post by Siun o'Connell » February 29th, 2020, 7:33 am

So impressed with all of Nola's great work on this! Thank you!

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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1310 Post by Dan Kravitz » February 29th, 2020, 6:25 pm

John Morris wrote: "Think there might be a little reclassification/relabeling going on?"

I have been told that it is counterindicated to observe the production of sausage.

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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1311 Post by John Morris » February 29th, 2020, 6:39 pm

Dan Kravitz wrote:
February 29th, 2020, 6:25 pm
I have been told that it is counterindicated to observe the production of sausage.
champagne.gif <-- Toasting that comment with a bottle of tariff-free French sparkling wine
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1312 Post by Nola Palomar » March 1st, 2020, 3:19 am

Siun o'Connell wrote:
February 29th, 2020, 7:33 am
So impressed with all of Nola's great work on this! Thank you!
It was a lot on my part, but just a drop in the bucket with everyone else!

Wish we were more successful. But at least they’re not more!!
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1313 Post by Nola Palomar » March 1st, 2020, 3:21 am

Siun o'Connell wrote:
February 29th, 2020, 7:33 am
So impressed with all of Nola's great work on this! Thank you!
It was a lot on my part, but just a drop in the bucket with everyone else!

Wish we were more successful. But at least they’re not more!!
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1314 Post by Nick Ryan » March 19th, 2020, 1:49 pm

Gotta love the irony of the government putting these ridiculous tariffs in place to punish the EU for Airbus subsidies, and now that very same government is going to hand over untold billions in subsidies to Boeing. Surely the tariffs can't apply once that is done under the long-established legal principle of "mind-blowing hypocrisy"?
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1315 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » March 19th, 2020, 1:53 pm

EU is going to have to support Airbus as well.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1316 Post by Greg Kramer » March 31st, 2020, 5:03 am

I heard some mention of the tariffs being suspended for 3 months. Now I see nothing in the news. Maybe rumored?
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1317 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » March 31st, 2020, 6:02 am

Some tariffs. Not all by any means. It’s changing every day. Even some PPE needed for the virus is still getting hit with tariffs.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1318 Post by Kevin Sidders » March 31st, 2020, 6:33 am

What I read (which I can't now find) is that they were considering suspending the COLLECTION of the tariffs, but not the obligation. So they would still calculate the tariffs, but you could pay later.

I guess akin to what the IRS has said about income taxes...
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1319 Post by Michel Abood » March 31st, 2020, 12:54 pm

Kevin Sidders wrote:
March 31st, 2020, 6:33 am
What I read (which I can't now find) is that they were considering suspending the COLLECTION of the tariffs, but not the obligation. So they would still calculate the tariffs, but you could pay later.

I guess akin to what the IRS has said about income taxes...
THIS. It's SO stupid. We'll still owe the money, only a huge amount all at once, which as a cashflow-sensitive business, just sucks. The people coming up with these ideas are f*ck idiots. Sorry not sorry.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1320 Post by Nola Palomar » March 31st, 2020, 1:17 pm

Michel Abood wrote:
March 31st, 2020, 12:54 pm
Kevin Sidders wrote:
March 31st, 2020, 6:33 am
What I read (which I can't now find) is that they were considering suspending the COLLECTION of the tariffs, but not the obligation. So they would still calculate the tariffs, but you could pay later.

I guess akin to what the IRS has said about income taxes...
THIS. It's SO stupid. We'll still owe the money, only a huge amount all at once, which as a cashflow-sensitive business, just sucks. The people coming up with these ideas are f*ck idiots. Sorry not sorry.
This
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1321 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » March 31st, 2020, 1:28 pm

I don't want to defend the tariffs or even this supposed relief as in any way real, but, really, if you expect that paying a lump sum will be a hardship and you have the income, just set it aside as you owe it to pay when the moment comes.

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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1322 Post by Mark Golodetz » March 31st, 2020, 2:15 pm

Consumers are fortunate; they are under no time pressure to buy, so with the help of the vendors, most of whom are offering free storage, they can wait out the tariffs. I am waiting it out as I have absolutely no intention of paying a penny.

The trade almost has to buy and import. So unfortunately, thanks to our need to protect a rogue company Boeing, the wine trade is being punished, and many are in the brink.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1323 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 2nd, 2020, 6:09 am

The genius President will not lift tariffs because he claims it does not hurt American companies. Try telling that to our importer friends bringing in French wines, many now on the brink of bankruptcy. Try telling that to people laid off by them. And try telling that to consumers spending more for the same.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/busi ... tVMhM4nY6M
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1324 Post by AndrewH » June 8th, 2020, 11:40 am

The tariff "carousel" is coming around again . . . Aug. 12 is the next time wine tariffs might get swapped out for something else to take a hit:
WINE GROUP: TRUMP TARIFFS ARE KILLING US: Wine wholesalers and retailers have been hit with a one-two punch over the past nine months. First, the Trump administration jacked up their business costs by slapping a 25 percent tariff on wine imports from France in a trade dispute with the EU over government support for Airbus. Then the coronavirus pandemic forced the closure of restaurants, wiping out a big portion of their sales.

Relief could be in sight, if the Trump administration can be persuaded to lift the wine tariffs and slap them on another product instead. By law, USTR is required to periodically review any WTO-sanctioned trade retaliation, a process known as carousel. Boeing previously has urged $7.5 billion of the retaliation be aimed solely at Airbus products.
More at this link (scroll down to the headline above): https://www.politico.com/morningtrade/
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1325 Post by Victor Hong » June 8th, 2020, 11:54 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
April 2nd, 2020, 6:09 am
The genius President will not lift tariffs because he claims it does not hurt American companies. Try telling that to our importer friends bringing in French wines, many now on the brink of bankruptcy. Try telling that to people laid off by them. And try telling that to consumers spending more for the same.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/busi ... tVMhM4nY6M
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An arresting nose of rubber, sulfur, smoke, and wood hit me over the head, to the point where my eyes started tearing uncontrollably. Some 'merican Blackhawk military helicopter happened to fly just overheard then, but the rotor blast was insufficient to blow away that funk.

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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1326 Post by Dan Kravitz » June 8th, 2020, 7:01 pm

"An arresting nose of rubber, sulfur, smoke, and wood hit me over the head"

Victor,

Do you even begin to understand how lucky you are that nothing else hit you over the head?

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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1327 Post by Lee Barnard » June 24th, 2020, 3:29 am

Published last night. Looks like list is up for reconsideration. So <14% wine could be removed, not changed or even increased to 100% tariff if I read this correctly. Also looks like additional wine categories could be added (>14%, large formats..).

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/en ... 3_2020.pdf

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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1328 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 24th, 2020, 4:57 am

Lee Barnard wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 3:29 am
Published last night. Looks like list is up for reconsideration. So <14% wine could be removed, not changed or even increased to 100% tariff if I read this correctly. Also looks like additional wine categories could be added (>14%, large formats..).

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/en ... 3_2020.pdf
The list comes up for reconsideration on a periodic basis. It's part of the process. The only potential new products are on pages 38 and 39. Yes more wine and gourmet foodstuffs could be added, but they are not new to the list of considered products.

It's just here we go again. At this point, with the world economy already in a general tailspin, the only thing that they could be thinking in terms of imposing extra tariffs is to grab and extra buck or two wherever they can. Sad, but true.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1329 Post by Nola Palomar » June 24th, 2020, 2:07 pm

I just don't know how much more fight I have left in me.
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#1330 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 24th, 2020, 3:49 pm

Honestly I don’t see them raising tariffs right now. Maybe that’s naïveté, but hopefully someone realizes how fragile things are.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1331 Post by Mike C. » June 24th, 2020, 3:56 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 3:49 pm
Honestly I don’t see them raising tariffs right now. Maybe that’s naïveté, but hopefully someone realizes how fragile things are.
Regardless of your political beliefs, I would hope that everyone can recognize that we are always one Tweet away from a drastic policy change. Would not be surprised (though am very much hoping not) if the response to Europe banning travel from the US is an increase in tariffs.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1332 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 24th, 2020, 3:58 pm

Mike C. wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 3:56 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 3:49 pm
Honestly I don’t see them raising tariffs right now. Maybe that’s naïveté, but hopefully someone realizes how fragile things are.
Regardless of your political beliefs, I would hope that everyone can recognize that we are always one Tweet away from a drastic policy change. Would not be surprised (though am very much hoping not) if the response to Europe banning travel from the US is an increase in tariffs.
Perhaps, but at least they won’t last long (hope, hope).
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1333 Post by Jim Anderson » June 24th, 2020, 7:56 pm

Mike C. wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 3:56 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 3:49 pm
Honestly I don’t see them raising tariffs right now. Maybe that’s naïveté, but hopefully someone realizes how fragile things are.
Regardless of your political beliefs, I would hope that everyone can recognize that we are always one Tweet away from a drastic policy change. Would not be surprised (though am very much hoping not) if the response to Europe banning travel from the US is an increase in tariffs.
My thoughts exactly.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1334 Post by Howard Cooper » June 25th, 2020, 4:57 am

Mike C. wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 3:56 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 3:49 pm
Honestly I don’t see them raising tariffs right now. Maybe that’s naïveté, but hopefully someone realizes how fragile things are.
Regardless of your political beliefs, I would hope that everyone can recognize that we are always one Tweet away from a drastic policy change. Would not be surprised (though am very much hoping not) if the response to Europe banning travel from the US is an increase in tariffs.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ew-tariffs
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1335 Post by Mark Golodetz » June 25th, 2020, 5:23 am

Trying to keep this apolitical but it looks like we have all the makings of a major trade war. It may be a distraction, but if it happens, it will do untold damage both in the near and long term.
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#1336 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 25th, 2020, 5:49 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 5:23 am
Trying to keep this apolitical but it looks like we have all the makings of a major trade war. It may be a distraction, but if it happens, it will do untold damage both in the near and long term.
Umm...it's already a trade war, and has been that way for over a year.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1337 Post by Mark Golodetz » June 25th, 2020, 6:02 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 5:49 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 5:23 am
Trying to keep this apolitical but it looks like we have all the makings of a major trade war. It may be a distraction, but if it happens, it will do untold damage both in the near and long term.
Umm...it's already a trade war, and has been that way for over a year.
I beg to differ. It is not a war if only one side is fighting. New tariffs will likely escalate it, and if it does become two way and Europe retaliates, it will be a disaster.

Bad enough anyway, but in the middle of a pandemic, it will have tragic consequences for a generation to come. I am hopeful common sense will prevail, but that is a commodity that seems in short supply currently.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1338 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 25th, 2020, 6:11 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 6:02 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 5:49 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 5:23 am
Trying to keep this apolitical but it looks like we have all the makings of a major trade war. It may be a distraction, but if it happens, it will do untold damage both in the near and long term.
Umm...it's already a trade war, and has been that way for over a year.
I beg to differ. It is not a war if only one side is fighting. New tariffs will likely escalate it, and if it does become two way and Europe retaliates, it will be a disaster.

Bad enough anyway, but in the middle of a pandemic, it will have tragic consequences for a generation to come. I am hopeful common sense will prevail, but that is a commodity that seems in short supply currently.
So the EU tariffs on nearly $3B of US goods introduced in 2019 don't count?
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1339 Post by Mark Golodetz » June 25th, 2020, 6:37 am

The only one I know about was not in 2019 but in 2018, and had nothing to do with Airbus dispute. So no, it does not count in the current conversation which is whether Europeans will retaliate if the administration adds new or increases current tariffs.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1340 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 25th, 2020, 6:40 am

It’s a broader war than just the Airbus/Boeing dispute.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1341 Post by Markus S » June 25th, 2020, 7:30 am

Mike C. wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 3:56 pm
...Would not be surprised (though am very much hoping not) if the response to Europe banning travel from the US is an increase in tariffs.
Why would a public health strategy cause tariff? We cannot even take care of our own in this country.
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1342 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » June 25th, 2020, 7:33 am

Markus S wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 7:30 am
Mike C. wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 3:56 pm
...Would not be surprised (though am very much hoping not) if the response to Europe banning travel from the US is an increase in tariffs.
Why would a public health strategy cause tariff? We cannot even take care of our own in this country.
You seem to be implying that logic would play a role.

Explain the rationale underlying that conclusion, please.

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AndrewH
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1343 Post by AndrewH » June 25th, 2020, 10:45 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 6:02 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 5:49 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 5:23 am
Trying to keep this apolitical but it looks like we have all the makings of a major trade war. It may be a distraction, but if it happens, it will do untold damage both in the near and long term.
Umm...it's already a trade war, and has been that way for over a year.
I beg to differ. It is not a war if only one side is fighting. New tariffs will likely escalate it, and if it does become two way and Europe retaliates, it will be a disaster.

Bad enough anyway, but in the middle of a pandemic, it will have tragic consequences for a generation to come. I am hopeful common sense will prevail, but that is a commodity that seems in short supply currently.
1) This is part of the standard periodic review of the tariffs that are in place. Based just on that, one would not really expect to see "new" tariffs - other than the existing tariffs will be rotated onto some new goods, while being removed from others. If that's all that happens it's not an escalation - just continuations of a similar tariff level with a slightly different burden.

2) The possibility remains that the administration will decide to increase tariffs. The 100% tariffs were originally framed as a response to France's proposed digital services tax. USTR backed off that when countries started negotiating a resolution in OECD, though the US has now left those discussions for now.
Andrew H e i m e r t

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Peter Kleban
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1344 Post by Peter Kleban » June 25th, 2020, 12:24 pm

Nola Palomar wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 2:07 pm
I just don't know how much more fight I have left in me.
Nola: just remember "non illegitimi carborundum"*





*don't let the bastards wear you down
Bob Wood:
"Peter..your well-reasoned words were a waste of time."
WsOTY:
Bêcheur Chard Anderson Vy '18
Felettig Morey St. Denis VV '14
Felettig Chamb-Mus VV '14
Pépière Muscadet Briords '09
Volpaia Chianti Class '18
Lignier Morey St Denis 1er Ormes '14
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Pépière Muscadet Briords '19
Bêcheur PN '14
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D@vid Bu3ker
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1345 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 25th, 2020, 4:59 pm

AndrewH wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 10:45 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 6:02 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 5:49 am


Umm...it's already a trade war, and has been that way for over a year.
I beg to differ. It is not a war if only one side is fighting. New tariffs will likely escalate it, and if it does become two way and Europe retaliates, it will be a disaster.

Bad enough anyway, but in the middle of a pandemic, it will have tragic consequences for a generation to come. I am hopeful common sense will prevail, but that is a commodity that seems in short supply currently.
1) This is part of the standard periodic review of the tariffs that are in place. Based just on that, one would not really expect to see "new" tariffs - other than the existing tariffs will be rotated onto some new goods, while being removed from others. If that's all that happens it's not an escalation - just continuations of a similar tariff level with a slightly different burden.

2) The possibility remains that the administration will decide to increase tariffs. The 100% tariffs were originally framed as a response to France's proposed digital services tax. USTR backed off that when countries started negotiating a resolution in OECD, though the US has now left those discussions for now.
There is another issue. France has not implemented the tax, but other countries (e.g. Italy) have, and others (e.g. Spain) are considering it. This is a trade war, no matter what Golodetz thinks.
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Mattstolz
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1346 Post by Mattstolz » June 26th, 2020, 5:20 pm

how do we comment on the newest reconsideration? anyone have a link?

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D@vid Bu3ker
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1347 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 26th, 2020, 5:48 pm

Mattstolz wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 5:20 pm
how do we comment on the newest reconsideration? anyone have a link?
https://comments.ustr.gov/s/submit-new- ... -2020-0023
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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Mattstolz
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1348 Post by Mattstolz » June 26th, 2020, 6:02 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 5:48 pm
Mattstolz wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 5:20 pm
how do we comment on the newest reconsideration? anyone have a link?
https://comments.ustr.gov/s/submit-new- ... -2020-0023
thanks. commenting now.

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D@vid Bu3ker
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1349 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 1st, 2020, 6:45 am

Just submitted my comments in opposition to the overall tariffs, as well as the potential increases.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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Mark Golodetz
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Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

#1350 Post by Mark Golodetz » July 13th, 2020, 11:09 am

An extremely good synopsis of why wine tariffs harm Americans rather than the Europeans.

https://wineindustryadvisor.com/2020/07 ... cRFBP1TuQI
ITB

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