Tomato/Sundried tomato Aroma and TN -- help!!

Lately I seem to have encountered this note a lot. I seem to get it mostly with Sangiovese and some Nebbiolo (particularly Barbaresco for some reason). However, I also got it on a 2013 Vogue CM 1er last night.

What causes this aroma/TN? Is this some sort of pyrazine or ester? Or is it a product of a fault like VA (EA specifically - I do tend to get it on wine with some of that “sweet nail polish” aroma) or heat damage?

Your help is much appreciated!

I know what you’re talking about. I get it too in older rioja. No clue what it is.

I had something similar in a few recent bottles of 2003 Joguet that I assumed had been heat damaged or just roasted. Was more like stewed tomatoes. I dumped three bottles in a row.

Methoxypyrazine.

I find it seems to appear like green pepper does in some wines/areas.

Someone once told me it was from stems, I have NO IDEA if that’s true. Someone else told me from not quite fully ripe red-skinned grapes. Also NO IDEA if that’s true.

I might venture to say I have found tomato impression more common in wines that are generally more herbaceous or even with a bit of barnyard…but no generalization.

I don’t find it an attractive impression.

I have also tasted it in old Chinon before (from the 80s).

Same, do you get green pepper from Chinon?

Sounds like it would pair with pasta & red gravy well. [whistle.gif] [wink.gif]

It’s a common characteristic of Cab-family grapes, and for me it’s definitely off-putting. I had a wine the other night that I thought was a Cab or Merlot from either Chile or central CA. Why? Because it was both green and over-ripe at the same time. Smelled like V-8 juice, tasted like Kool Aid with a shot of V-8. Undrinkable. There’s a lot of bad Paso Robles Cab like that and it used to be fairly common in wines from Chile but they’ve improved dramatically over the past fifteen years.

Turns out it was a Cab from Santa Ynez.

Some of that aroma comes from various methoxypyrazines, but there are other sources as well. And some of it can be mitigated by canopy adjustment - sunlight can help kill that aroma so if you’re going to make your grapes overripe, do the customer a favor and get rid of that vegetal quality.

Here are a few sources:

sounds like a great pairing opportunity to me!

Great post! [cheers.gif]

I’d suspect over-cropping as a factor much of the time.

Also, note that you can imprint this sort of thing in your brain. Like, a particular wine where it really stands out by the negative reaction you have tells your brain this yuck-o thing is important. Then, you have a wine where it wouldn’t previously have stood out, but your brain steps in and helpfully warns you it’s there. Thanks brain. Thanks a lot! Time can sometimes normalize such a sensitivity.

This yuck-o thing?!

Your brain helpfully warns you?!

What a great post. It’s funny but it’s also pretty clear. Thanks for the laughs Wes!

Yes, much more often than tomatoes - I still remember, because I was so surprised to taste it.

Anton, are you referring to peppercorns or bell pepper? If bell pepper, totally. And unlike the tomato thing I consider it quite desirable.

Intersting discussion. From a winemaking standpoint, there are some ‘regions’ or ‘vineyards’ that seem to exhibit these aromas, and sometimes they remain with the wines all the way through. I’ve noticed that many Santa Maria Valley pinots, and some syrahs, have these notes during fermentation and that these may remain into finished wines (especially pinots). Why? No idea - but I do not believe it’s due to over cropping. Pyrazines are certainly a possibility, but not sure about that.

Then of course the ‘perception’ of this will differ between folks as others have said above. If you are not a fan of tomatoes, for instance, this may be off-putting, whereas if you dig them, you might find it ‘favorable’.

Ah the joys of wine . . .

Cheers!

Yes, bell pepper!

I am with you, again…I like the bell pepper notes!

In Napa wines, my wife calls it “Rutherford Bench Bell Pepper.”

I also often get this note on Nebbiolo/Sangiovese with a little bit of age on it - I can’t figure it out.

I’ve noticed it in older Rioja, too. I actually enjoy it.