Aglianico

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Oliver McCrum
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Re: Aglianico

#51 Post by Oliver McCrum » October 22nd, 2019, 12:19 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 3:01 pm
I vacationed in that area in January, and tried mid to upper tier Aglianico at most of my lunches and dinners. Some pretty good, some too baked/ripe/heavy, overall I wasn't hooked, and I'm pretty easily hooked on Italian wines. ...
Chris,

I am not surprised by your experience. In my experience the south of Italy has taken longer to recover from the plague of ripeness, new wood, and non-native varieties that infected many Italian regions in the '90s. But there are exceptions, and when grown in the right place and treated properly I think Aglianico is surely one of Italy's most interesting varieties. Don't give up!
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Chris Seiber
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Re: Aglianico

#52 Post by Chris Seiber » October 22nd, 2019, 2:06 pm

Oliver McCrum wrote:
October 22nd, 2019, 12:19 pm
Chris Seiber wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 3:01 pm
I vacationed in that area in January, and tried mid to upper tier Aglianico at most of my lunches and dinners. Some pretty good, some too baked/ripe/heavy, overall I wasn't hooked, and I'm pretty easily hooked on Italian wines. ...
Chris,

I am not surprised by your experience. In my experience the south of Italy has taken longer to recover from the plague of ripeness, new wood, and non-native varieties that infected many Italian regions in the '90s. But there are exceptions, and when grown in the right place and treated properly I think Aglianico is surely one of Italy's most interesting varieties. Don't give up!
Want to recommend a good traditional one I could find in the US?

Near me, Hi Time has these:


STEFANIA BARBOT 2015 ION AGLIANICO IRPINA
$26.95

MASTROBERARDINO "RADICI" 2011 TAURASI RISERVA
$59.98

QUINTODECIMO 2011 TAURASI RISERVA GRANDE CERZITO
$180.00
-
CANTINA NOTAIO 2015 L'ATTO
$18.95

TERREDORA DIPAOLO 2012 TAURASI
$29.98

GALARDI 2016 TERRA DI LAVORO ROCCAMONFINA
$64.95



And Wine Exchange has these:

Cantine Lonardo - Contrade di Taurasi Aglianico 2015
$19.98


Feudi di San Gregorio Aglianico Rubrato 2016
JS94
$14.98

Montevetrano Aglianico Core 2013
$21.98


Galardi Terra Di Lavoro Campania 2016
$56.98

Perillo Taurasi 2005
$34.98

Cantine Lonardo Taurasi Coste 2009
$59.98

Oliver McCrum
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Re: Aglianico

#53 Post by Oliver McCrum » October 22nd, 2019, 2:11 pm

At the risk of sounding like a shill, I know that Lonardo and Perillo are genuine, traditionally styled wines because I import both of them. All Aglianico, no new wood, long macerations. If you try one of them please tell me what you think.

The Lonardo Irpinia Aglianico is all from Taurasi, vinified so as to be drinkable earlier than their Taurasi (still big wine, though).

Shill over.
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GregT
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Re: Aglianico

#54 Post by GregT » October 22nd, 2019, 3:00 pm

OK so this isn't a shill.

Those two wines of Oliver's are pretty good!
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Re: Aglianico

#55 Post by Oliver McCrum » October 22nd, 2019, 4:59 pm

I'm off the hook, phew.
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Cris Whetstone
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Re: Aglianico

#56 Post by Cris Whetstone » October 22nd, 2019, 7:27 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
October 22nd, 2019, 2:06 pm

Want to recommend a good traditional one I could find in the US?

Near me, Hi Time has these:


STEFANIA BARBOT 2015 ION AGLIANICO IRPINA
$26.95

MASTROBERARDINO "RADICI" 2011 TAURASI RISERVA
$59.98

TERREDORA DIPAOLO 2012 TAURASI
$29.98

GALARDI 2016 TERRA DI LAVORO ROCCAMONFINA
$64.95

And Wine Exchange has these:

Cantine Lonardo - Contrade di Taurasi Aglianico 2015
$19.98


Feudi di San Gregorio Aglianico Rubrato 2016
JS94
$14.98

Montevetrano Aglianico Core 2013
$21.98


Galardi Terra Di Lavoro Campania 2016
$56.98

Cantine Lonardo Taurasi Coste 2009
$59.98
I have some experience with the producers above though it is not a lot.

I brought a Cantine Lonardo wine to a Frank M Basanti diner last you I think you were at. I think their wines are fantastic though I have had any on the lower end. I'm going to get some of that $20 wine from WineX and give it a go.

The Galardi wines are notable for getting some huge WA scores from Galloni. They are beasts.

The Terredora Dipaolo wines have turned up recently for nice prices. They seem to be examples of older school wine making. Including the things we don't necessarily romanticize when we say that. I'm looking forward to exploring them more broadly.

The one Barbot wine I tried I was not thrilled with. While they didn't seem to be pushing massive ripeness and oaky sweetness they certainly are into extraction. Maybe good with time. Maybe not. You won't get great odds from me.
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Re: Aglianico

#57 Post by Lee Short » October 22nd, 2019, 8:19 pm

GregT wrote:
October 22nd, 2019, 3:00 pm
OK so this isn't a shill.

Those two wines of Oliver's are pretty good!
+1 on this.

+1 also to those who have said Aglianico isn't a natural progression from the other Italians you have liked.

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Re: Aglianico

#58 Post by Kelly Walker » October 22nd, 2019, 8:58 pm

Who new. 121 BC was the first recorded vintage of the millennial.
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Re: Aglianico

#59 Post by John Kight » October 24th, 2019, 12:59 pm

Galardi can be great when you get it at the right time, and is often best in the "weak" years because it is less dense and tannic. The '08 is terrific right now, and it was not considered a particularly good year.

For consistency I like Terredora di Paolo's Taurasi's (they make 3-4, I think, but the "Fatica Contadina" is, I believe their base-level and very good, typically at a great price of about $30-$33. I am still drinking the '01s and '04s and they are awesome...And they drink well out of the gate in most vintages.

The Mastroberardino Radici's are great too, but the non-Riservas are a bit "international" (i.e. delicious, but somewhat Bordeaux-like and not as distinctly Aglianico) and the Riservas are great but need age.

To me, these are the most consistent producers. If I were going to recommend just one to try (for someone who hasn't had them), I'd definitely point to Terradora di Paolo, but would avoid their overly-rustic entry-level "Aglianico" in favour of their Taurasi.

Chris, you mentioned that the Barbot "Ion" is available via Hi Times. You may have noticed that Monica Larner posted a very positive note on that wine earlier in this thread....maybe check that one out too! I've never seen this producer but am going to try to track down their higher-level Taurasi.

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Re: Aglianico

#60 Post by Wes Barton » October 24th, 2019, 1:24 pm

John Kight wrote:
October 24th, 2019, 12:59 pm
Galardi can be great when you get it at the right time, and is often best in the "weak" years because it is less dense and tannic. The '08 is terrific right now, and it was not considered a particularly good year.
That's one of those funny things in our world of wine. Dense, extractive wines yield higher ratings and command a higher price in the market. Don't know if they bleed off, but they could easily press earlier, perhaps pick a little earlier and make those better, weaker wines more often or always. (Of course a winery can do both, with an earlier drinker and a serious ager.)
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Re: Aglianico

#61 Post by Lorenzo F » November 17th, 2019, 11:21 am

Perillo riserva is great value from a producer that I consider a great .
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Re: Aglianico

#62 Post by J a y H a c k » November 18th, 2019, 6:54 am

I don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but I have an issue with calling Italy a single region, and that comes from someone who has occasionally said, while drinking blind, "I don't know what it is, but it's from Italy" and I've been right. AND it turned out to be a well-aged Mastroberardino Taurasi. I think Aglianico is an excellent grape but it is like Hermitage - a 30 year wine. If I could find a stock of well-stored 1990s vintage Aglianico at a fair price, I would gobble it up.

If you want to stay in Italy, Aglianico is a good choice. There seems to be a lot of Feudi di San Gregorio Irpinia Serpico available at auction at reasonable prices and maybe you can grab some of that, but you have to be patient. I bought a half case of the 2010 about 2 years ago, gave one away as a gift, tried one bottle, and promptly buried the rest for enjoyment in the middle of the next decade.
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Re: Aglianico

#63 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » November 18th, 2019, 7:01 am

Basilisco is the bomb. They now bottle three 'crus' as well, single vineyard sites with different soil types and vine age. The regular can be found at $30-40, the Cru's have two in the ~$50 range and the Storico is more in the $75-90 range.

Also Luigi Maffini from Cilento. The Kleos is more an everyday wine and the Cenito is more ageworthy. I had a 2010 at Il Buco here in NYC it was still young.
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Re: Aglianico

#64 Post by Howard Cooper » November 18th, 2019, 7:10 am

GregT wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 10:46 am
John Morris wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 9:48 am
Keith Levenberg wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 7:44 am
Never really understood the "nebbiolo of the south" thing, the profiles are polar opposite. Aglianico is more like a cross between Graves and Hermitage, and maybe a dash of Bandol?
+1 I don't see much similarity in texture/structure or flavor/aroma between nebbiolo and aglianico.

But this thread makes me think I should revisit aglianico. (So many grapes, so little time.... )
Ditto. I think they called it that because they were trying to get some respect for it and they figured it would make age-worthy wine, but it's too different in so many ways to be a good comparison.

And as far as being too modern, that's just weird to me. The grape came from what is now Turkey sometime around 600 BC. The Italians called it "Ellenico", which means it was Hellenic. So it's been around for a long time. The Greeks stored it in resin-coated containers. They added spices and flavors because the wine spoiled pretty much as soon as it was made. The Romans took it a few steps farther. They used to add lead. And honey. And seawater. Yum! Those are the wines I love because I don't like all this modern stuff.

And if you ever read Piny the Elder on the wines of Campania, he has a great recipe for the wine he gave to his slaves. For centuries the grape was used to make plonk for the peasants. It finally got some recognition as a "serious" grape with Antonio Mastroberardino's Taurasi in the 1970s. So unless people are adding lead and honey, pretty much all of the Aglianico on the market is modern.
So, I guess that California Cabernet and Australian Shiraz cannot taste modern because the grapes have been around for a long time? Or are these wines traditional because they are sweet and have water added to them to get the alcohol under control (doubt they use lead). [scratch.gif] [stirthepothal.gif]
Last edited by Howard Cooper on November 18th, 2019, 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aglianico

#65 Post by Howard Cooper » November 18th, 2019, 7:15 am

John Morris wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 3:26 pm
Chris Seiber wrote:
October 18th, 2019, 3:05 pm
Another fun one to discover is the Vajra Langhe Freisa "Kye." Vajra is a good Barolo producer, but this bottling of Freisa is really good, good value for the price, drinks well young and also ages at least medium term well.

I
John, I have never had a bottle of Freisa and bought a Vajra (2013) to try one. From your post, it seems like I could drink it now and enjoy it?
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Re: Aglianico

#66 Post by James Billy » November 18th, 2019, 9:56 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
November 18th, 2019, 7:10 am

So, I guess that California Cabernet and SOUTH Australian Shiraz cannot taste modern because the grapes have been around for a long time? Or are these wines traditional because they are sweet and have water added to them to get the alcohol under control (doubt they use lead). [scratch.gif] [stirthepothal.gif]
FIFY. And even there there's some cool climate 'syrah' at higher altitudes.

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Re: Aglianico

#67 Post by James Billy » February 17th, 2020, 9:57 pm

Looking on CT, it seems that users stopped buying Aglianico (and Sagrantino) in large numbers almost 10 years ago.

I wonder why?

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Re: Aglianico

#68 Post by IlkkaL » February 17th, 2020, 10:04 pm

James Billy wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 9:57 pm
Looking on CT, it seems that users stopped buying Aglianico (and Sagrantino) in large numbers almost 10 years ago.

I wonder why?
I think for me it was the realization of how much time serious Aglianico really requires to reach its prime drinking window. I love me some Mastroberardino Taurasi but I already have way too much other red wine (Northern Rhône Syrah, Loire Cab Franc, Barolo/Barbaresco) that I like more that require the 15 years+ in the cellar. With Sagrantino I think it is more about availability, which there is not that much of.
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Re: Aglianico

#69 Post by James Billy » February 17th, 2020, 10:31 pm

I don't think that accounts for the day/night difference that occurred almost overnight.

Your ageing point is reasonable, but Nebbiolo can take am age and is hardly suffering from a drop in demand.

There must have been a good surply of both varieries up to around 2011 as the number of bottles in CTs' cellars was quite substantial for quite number of vintages until then.

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Re: Aglianico

#70 Post by Brian Gilp » February 18th, 2020, 7:16 am

It seems to me that Taurasi vintages are generally lagging most other regions. Not sure if they are released late or just don't move all that well. In the past few months, I have purchased Taurasi from vintages 2009, 2011, 2012, and 2015. I don't think I have seen anything younger than a 2015 on the shelves.

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Re: Aglianico

#71 Post by K Kl@dder » February 18th, 2020, 8:56 am

For those interested in a CA sourced Aglianico or Sagrantino, Benessere Vineyards in Napa offers both. I've had them in the past, no formal tasting notes nor have I had this varietal from other sources to compare, but I did enjoy them enough at the winery to buy a couple bottles to take home a few years back. No affiliation other than a fan.
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Re: Aglianico

#72 Post by James Billy » February 18th, 2020, 2:56 pm

Brian Gilp wrote:
February 18th, 2020, 7:16 am
It seems to me that Taurasi vintages are generally lagging most other regions. Not sure if they are released late or just don't move all that well. In the past few months, I have purchased Taurasi from vintages 2009, 2011, 2012, and 2015. I don't think I have seen anything younger than a 2015 on the shelves.
Brian, that's interesting. I'm sure there are ITB people here who could help explain this unusual situation.

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Re: Aglianico

#73 Post by Bob Semon » February 18th, 2020, 8:26 pm

If you like Barolo & Co. and Etna Rosso, you might look a bit further afield to Naoussa or Amyndeon. I find that Xinomavro wines can have similar acidity, tannic structure, and depth of aromatic delicacy. Unfortunately, to my taste, some producers there are more enthusiastic about new barrel aging than I. Consult with a trusted retailer about available choices.
And there is always Rioja and Burgundy.

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