Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé - Controversial Producer?

Hey everyone, what are your impressions of the wines of Vogüé?
I’m wondering more about the more recent vintages, say those within the last 10-15 years or so.

There seems to be quite a bit of disagreement on whether this is a great Burgundy producer or not. Their vineyard holdings are most certainly in great terroirs, but how often is the potential of these vineyards captured and to what extent? The most negative things I can remember seeing written by well known Burgundy critics is that the wines sometimes (or often?) don’t show well when they are young, or that they can lack soul. I’ve noticed there are many others that aren’t very impressed by the Vogüé wines, or only sporadically.

Most people seem to agree that the wines take longer than normal to reach their potential, or show as well as wines from the same vineyards, made my other producers. Does this factor into the controversy at all?

Do people think that the wines of Roumier and Mugnier are regularly better than those of Vogüé?

Again, I’m interested more so in recent vintages and the perception of where the Domaine lies currently in the hierarchy of Burgundy producers.
Thanks for any thoughts on the topic.

two greatest red Burgs of my life are Vogüé 1929 and 1945. Like 78 and 85. I didn’t like 1990, too Cabernet-like and haven’t drunk many since, as I believe they need 30+ years. Pricing has turned me off, though.

I love the wines, but only buy a few at a time due to price. I have a modest vertical of the Chambolle 1er, and each time I open one bottle it prods me to buy two more.

Interesting question. I don’t have a huge experience, but almost every bottle I’ve had, I’ve felt the wines to be a little unbalanced, a little too angular and to me a little more oak influence than I wanted. The oak thing is puzzling, because I believe the amount of new oak is not all that high. It could be that I’ve always had the wines too young, and that they truly need lots and lots of time. The bottling that bothers me the most is the Amoureuses, although I’ve only had a few. this is a delicate yet powerful wine, and yet their version has seemed heavy handed the few times that I’ve had it. It has seemed like it needs to be handled somewhat differently to me.

I know the 1990 is a notorious example of a vintage where the Musigny didn’t turn out well (at least that’s what most people would agree on). It seems like there was a time where some vintages the wine would turn out great and some not so great. Is there a trend of them doing better or worse than normal in greater or lesser vintages? I’ve seen some of the lesser and or less popular vintages at heavily discounted prices (2011, 2013, 2014 for example).

The 1er seems like it should be a nice buy. Declassified Musigny. Smaller scale and a touch less complexity compared to the VV? Pretty much always less than half the price from what I’ve seen.

What vintages have you had? I read on a past post here that sometime in the last 10-15 years they dialed back the new oak. Supposedly to about the same level as Roumier.

As a guy who would like to drink Musigny but can’t afford it, I’ve been stocking up on Musigny-adjacent or Musigny-kinda-sorta like the Vogüé 1er and Clavelier’s Combe d’Orveaux. I haven’t yet drunk any of these, but I’ve been reading up. My understanding is that for recent vintages, the Vogüé 1er drinks well when young. But also it’s very vintage-dependent, so the notes for 2011, 2007 and 2004 (for instance) suggest that it’s not a year-in year-out kind of purchase. Clavelier, however, seems to be more consistent, but also needs more time. Again, this is just what I’ve been reading – people with, y’know, actual experience might have different points of view.

Thanks for the response, Glen. Where have you read negative things about Vogue Chambolle 1er or Musigny for the 2011 and 2007 vintages? I know they’re “weaker” or at least less popular Burgundy vintages, but notes from the critics for those wines look very positive to me (Meadows, Gilman, Tanzer, Robinson to name a few I just looked up).

Vintages off the top of my head–95,96,99,2001, maybe 2002. for specifics I’d have to check.

Oh, and 1990 on release (killer Musigny at that time–never after). there may be some 93 but not sure.

Just tasted both 2017 Musigny. Very impressive wines. The blanc may well be worth the price of admission.

Their 2017’s from barrel was all fantastic wines.

They really need time - the Musigny and Bonnes Mares in particular, really 25-40 years to show their best.

A slight stylistic change from 2007 on might mean that the wines will drink better younger, and maybe will need less time.

A number of more recent Musigny’s (I can’t find my notes to say exactly what we had) a few years ago seemed to bear this out, with the 2010 and 2011 being quite accessible from memory, whilst an '09 De Vogue Musigny bested an '09 Faiveley Musigny blind eighteen months ago (well for me anyway) - and was drinking quite well (if still young).

I´ve had great bottles of Vogüé, but all great ones had been 25+ years old.
Some younger ones showed potential but simply did not sing for me … and were more or less disapointing for what it was …
(also the Ch-M and 1er Cru)

I do think that Vogüé needs a lot of time, and that it is simply a waste to drink these wines too young … they often taste disjointed, herbal and unconvincing … if you haven´t tasted the mature ones.
From barrel they were great (but I´ve been there only once).
I also think they are inconsistent …

So I recommend buying only for those with a lot of patience and faith …

Musigny blanc: I´ve had it only once (1992), and several times the Bourgogne blanc afterwards … it is certainly a quite individualistic wine, very different from other white Burgs, but I don´t think the quality is worth the money (of 900+ for M. - 200+ for Bg.).
Rather a rarity than a really great wine imho.

We’re drinking 07 BM Thursday night–I’ll report.

From a couple of years ago (12/28/2016). I wanted to try out the 2007 because of the general vintage accessibility.

2007 Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru
Very early days for this, but it has a lovely perfume of red fruit, flowers, earth and yes the expected oak. Silk over tannin on the palate, it shows the quality of the vineyard (young vines Musigny here for anyone who does not already know) and the potential for a beautiful mid-term future for the wine. It is certainly worth the experience of opening this for the aromatics and the texture, but several more years are necessary for further palate development and aromatic complexity.

FYI, I opened it with Salil Benegal, and here’s his note:
This drinks like Musigny. It has the soaring, perfumed floral and red fruited aromatics; immense depth on the palate with an array of savoury earthiness and minerality beneath the sappy red berried fruit, and such remarkable elegance and persistence in each sip. Absolutely stunning wine. It’s so young now, but already a wow wine just for the stunning aromatics.

So I don’t think there is any issue with 2007, other than it being young.

By some weird quirk in the universe the Bonnes Mares I have had the most has been the 1998 Vogue. I had 2 bottles and have been places where others have opened it or brought it. I’ve had it many times and mostly randomly. I’ve had it in its relative youth (5ish years) and up to about 17 or 18 years so not old but with some solid bottle age for a wine. It has been absolutely delicious each time. It may not be the most profound and deep Bonnes Mares ever but it has been fantastic to drink without once feeling like I was missing out on some aspect of the wine by consuming it when I was. Loads of fruit, great structure but not so much so that the wine was locked down, bright acidity but perfectly in check, amazing texture and just an array of spices mixing in with the fruit to make for a beautiful wine. Hope I get another turn with it at some point!

Great disappointment (and perplexity) very recently with :

Comte Georges de Vogüé, Musigny Grand Cru, Vieilles Vignes, 2006 - april 2019 - report by Eric Bordas
Clarté moyenne, brillant.
N/ Pointe d’ orange, petits fruits rouges puis très floral après une longue aération (vendange entière partielle?).
B/ Souplesse et fermeté caractérisent la bouche avec une astringence qui reste douce. Arômes d’orange et petits fruits rouges, acidité contrôlée. C’est un vin en retrait, qui ne se livre pas, plutôt fermé, qui aurait sans doute besoin d’une longue aération. On passe à côté d’une grande étiquette !!! Trop jeune ? 16 +/20

Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé Musigny VV 2005 : 15,5/20 - september 2019
Comme dans le cas du 2006 bu récemment à la maison, et c’est pire ici pour un 2005, le prestige en prend un sacré coup. Le vin est évolué, plutôt maigre, à peine typé pinot noir (je voyais un Margaux d’un millésime défavorable). Cellartracker l’estime à 94,6 points sur 100 en moyennant les notes de 17 dégustateurs (prix estimé de 1500 euros).

But a great/pleasant Bonnes-Mares 2007 (18/20) in may 2015 … (pop and pour in a classy wine bar in Toulouse)

Whoops, my mistake. My comments were about tns I’ve seen on cellartracker for 2011, 2004 and 2003 - not 2007 - and I took those to be weaker years, not terrible or bad. And what I researched was mostly the 1er, as that’s what I can (sometimes, maybe, once in a blue moon) afford.

Ah, no worries. Still, looks like 2011 isn’t too bad from the cellartracker comments (for both 1er and Musigny). Only maybe a couple tastings notes that mention “green” out of the 19. But you’re right in that from the comments and ratings it seems to be a touch lesser than the better vintages. The reason I mention any of this is because I have an interest in a lot of the “off/lesser/less popular” vintages since you can find some really good pricing on them. I don’t have any interest in 2004 or 2003, but I’ve often found some interest in 2011. When there are no mentions of any green character, it seems that there are some nice wines, just not as big, impressive, and long lived as the more successful vintages. I still admit though, that I’m suspicious of any 2011s until I’ve tasted them or read enough tasting notes on them.

Thanks for the responses, everyone. All these data points and thoughts are very helpful.