Is Corton-Charlemagne as grand a Grand Cru as the others? Please discuss!

In my limited experience, I would have to say no. I don’t find the sheer concentration or complexity in C-C that I get from the various Montrachets. More like a 1er Puligny, and I’ve had a few of those that I would take over the C-C’s I’ve drunk.

Wrong producers? (I have some Bonneau de Martray I’m still waiting on. I’ve never tried any of PYCM’s or Leroy’s.) Wrong years? (Some have been hot, like '07; a few '02 and '08’s. I thought the latter would be leaner, but I think Bill Nanson once posted that I was wrong about that, at least in the case of Leflaive.)

Thoughts?

While I’m partial to Chevalier or Batard, I’d still consider Corton-Charlemagne a legit grand cru and certainly a big step over just about any 1er Puligny I’ve had. The couple of older Henri Boillots I’ve had were stunning. I’ve also liked Bonneau du Martray’s C-C a lot.

Has Bonneau du Martray rebounded from being a prime premox offender?

For me, CC doesn’t have the depth and complexity of the other Grand Crus. It is more in line with a Grand Cru Chablis. I’ve had plenty of wines from various producers and while some have been very enjoyable, like older Bonneau du Martray and even Coche, those just don’t develop into the honey, nutty, and flowery wines that say a Chevalier does.

Yes. Producer over site though.

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Different strokes, CC is more mineral from my experience, but has palate weight to carry GC status.

Good to know, Salil,
If we do something in early in 2020, maybe I can bring up one of the BdM’s, 2013, I think.

I think it is a Grand Cru although I definitely think other Grand Crus are a step up compared with CC. There are obviously some great CCs but there are a good number that I think are neck and neck with some of the better premier crus (Meursault Perrieres, Puligny Pucelles etc.). De Montille springs to mind here - I prefer and buy more of the Corton Charlemagne but the Puligny Cailleret is priced similarly which reflects the relative quality of both wines. For producers that make a range of Grand Crus including Corton Charlemagne, the CC is typically priced a lot closer to top premier crus than the other white Grand Crus.

Definitely…tho I think of CC as a cross between the Montrachets and GC Chablis (or Monts with some GC Chablis influences). Given its more structured nature, esp the portions that face Savigny more, I’m thinking these will fair better as climate change progresses.

IMO absolutely.

Part of the price discrepencies are scarcity… very roughly speaking, production of Grand Cru white Burgundy breaks down like this:

Chablis - about half
CC and related - about a third
Montrachet and neighbors - about a sixth

I think that Coche-Dury CC sells for about as much as any Montrachet except DRC, but in general I find that CC is good value compared to the Montrachet family and certainly fair compared to GC Chablis… please don’t tell me I’m comparing apples and oranges, I get it, but still…

Lately I’ve found Chandon de Briailles Corton Blanc to be great wine at a fair price. I cleaned out a retailer that had '09 for double digits.

Bonneau du Martray was a touchstone… until it wasn’t. I don’t know if they are partially or fully back on track. I’m tempted, but am averse to paying triple digits for wines that are subject to premox (or that have to be consumed before peak to avoid it).

Dan Kravitz

+1, g cru w many producers.

I’m sure I have less experience than others here, however from the experiences that I’ve had I would say that the Vineyard is absolutely worthy of Grand Cru status. Some producers do more with it than others. The same can be said of Clos Vougeot & Corton (for reds).

When it comes to pure enjoyment, my percentage is higher with CC that with any other white GC by a huge margin. I had my fair share of white Burgundies GCs and with most of them we spent time of justifying why it was not drinking well, Montrachetes in particular…

Like Clos Vougeot exposure and vine placement matters greatly then what producer can do with that vine.

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BdM (when they are on), Leroy or Coche are as good a Grand Cru white Burgundy experience as you could hope to have.

The Bonneau du Martray Corton Charlie I tried had a strong baked beans note on the nose that I couldn’t move past.

Did it make you fart?

Corton Charlemagne from Coche and Leroy are some of Burgundy’s best wines , better than 90 % of any Montrachet .
Other great CC producers today ( not every year )are Henri Boillot , Bouchard , Faiveley and PYCM ( I had the 2017 CC yesterday , wonderful wine ) .
It is much better potentially than Chablis grand cru . ( the best Chablis ever made pales compared to great CC ) .
The old Bonneau du Martray wines. , like 1986 , are wonderful . Unfortunately , the wines deteriorated in quality after that . I hope the new ownership will create again the great wines they once were .
Corton Charlemagne can age very well . Not so long ago , I had a 1985 from an unknown producer which again was great wine .
In style , CC is indeed more focused on minerality while Chevalier is more floral , sweet and nutty .
Unfortunately , there are a lot of average CC’s made , with lot’s of premox , is that why it suffers a bit in reputation ?

Couldn’t agree more, which the exception that I would say >90% of Montrachet. The problem with Corton-Charlemagne is more unrealized potential than any deficiency of the terroir, though of course the surface is large and some sites are inherently better than others. 1973 Bonneau du Matray was spectacular earlier this year, and a pristine bottle 1990 Coche Corton-Charlemagne last week was one of the best white wines I’ve had for a couple of years.