Traditional CdP Producers - Now and Then

So I’ve come to the conclusion that I have a reasonably large void in my cellar in regard to Châteauneuf-du-Pape (CdP) [written in full for the guy who is searching for this thread a year from now] Every time I read tasting notes or open a bottle myself I have a generally enjoyable experience. I’d like to have that experience more often, which means I need to add more to my cellar (not the worst “I need to go buy more wine” logic!)

My palate is far leaning toward traditional wines, but CdP has become a minefield in regard to figuring out who produces what style of wine. Some internet sleuthing and failed searches on here show a fairly inconclusive list of with whom I should backfill my cellar. So here is the ask, can you guys help me pull together a list of traditional produces to buy current vintages (2015-onward) and backfill great past vintages ('98, 00, 01-ish timeframe). I’m hoping for simplicities sake that most producers have overlap here and its generally one list, but really I’d also like to understand who has changes styles in this timeframe.

Here is where I think I stand with a current list of traditionalists to seek out for both backfilling and laying down.

Traditional Production around 2000:
Pegau
Vieux Telegraphe
Clos des Papes
Charvin
Beucastel
Vieux Donjon


Traditional Production Currently:
Pegau
Vieux Telegraphe
Charvin
Beucastel

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Rayas
Bonneau

I’ll add them to the list, but too much $$$ for me to realistically lay any quantity of these down.

TW

Rayas and Bonneau for sure (but Henri Bonneau died 3 years ago) …
but also missing is: Bois de Boursan (Jean-Paul Versino in the French market/orange label). This is as traditional as it gets!

Further
Clos des Brusqières
Domaine de Ferrand
Eddie Feraud
Lucien Barrot
Bosquet des Papes
Dom. de la Charbonniere
Mourre du Tendre
some more
(I do not say all are first class…)

Isn’t bosquet with Rolland?

Are the bonneau wines different after henri’s death?

Not as far as I know … at least not 15+ years ago …

The wine/vintages that are already in bottle (2014 and older) all still have been vinified by Henri, but from vintage 2011 (2010?) onwards the selection/elevage/bottling has been in the hands of the son Marcel (possible with the help of a M.Daniel Combin, ex-owner of the vinotheque Ballon rouge, who distributed the Bonneau wines). Henri still vinified the 2015s, but passed in March 2016.

What I´ve tasted is very much in the line of older vintages, with the exception of a certain feeling that 2011+ are maybe slightly more civilized, a bit more polished - but it can also well be only my imagination. 2011/12/13/14 are not really great vintages, so we´ll maybe see when the 2015 hits the market (2020?).
There has also been a Celestins in 2011, 12 and 14 … but not in 13.

I´ve been told that this Monsieur Combin, who has sold Ballon rouge, is more or less involved at Bonneau, and possibly not only in selling and distribution, but also in the vineyards and the cellar, but this is unconfirmed so far …

Bouquets has been with Cambie for some years now. I also find Charbonierres more modern than not, though still enjoyable. The only other I’d add to Gerhard’s list is Chapelle St. Theodoric, which is mostly only available in the US since it is made from vineyards owned by an American importer.

Great topic. I guess I’d keep Vieux Donjon on the list but agree with the others. It’s the proliferation of special cuvees that irks me the most about CdP but there are a few still making a single red cuvee.

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I’ve gone off CdP, drinking a lot less of it than I used to. Mostly because so many have gone over-ripe, and I don’t like the ripe, sweet Grenache thing. Current producers that I still enjoy are the exact same four you listed:
Pegau
Vieux Telegraphe
Charvin
Beaucastel

I would buy Rayas or Bonneau if they were affordable and available. I normally take Gerhard’s word on CdP as gospel, but Bosquet des Papes is too modern for my palate and I think he may be referring to older vintages. That one aside, if you’re looking to try new producers I’d consider the others on his list. For me, the four above are enough to scratch my CdP itch.

I’d echo this list and add

Dom. La Milliere
Dom de Marcoux

There are a few Cotes du Rhone that are being made in ways that give them the lifeline of CNDP as well. I had a 98 Clos du Caillou CdR (I can’t remember exactly which bottling) within the last year or so which was quite good.

Personally, I think its a little riskier looking for 98-01 CNDPs at this point. If it was my money, I’d pass and maybe backfill a few 2010’s instead.

Sorry I meant cambie not Rolland, same idea, though.

Is Brunel’s Les Cailloux more modern now? I use to love his wines, a yearly purchase.

It’s - how to call it - semi-traditional … excellent producer, I like Andre Brunel.
Generally on the same line as Marcoux.

commercial post: I import Pegau to most of the United States.

If you ask Paul or Laurence Feraud the ‘secret’ of the quality of Pegau, they willingly divulge it: The grapes are grown and wine is made exactly as it was in the late 1800s. Of course the current fermenting tanks were installed between 1904 and 1907, so there’s your modernity.

Starting in the vineyard: Most old Chateauneuf vines have 4 - 6 arms. Pegau: 3.
Yields normally under 2 tons/acre (30 hectolitres/hectare).
Harvest the grapes by hand when they taste ripe.
Fermentation: Put the grapes in the fermenters, press in the Fullness of Time, put the wine into foudres (5 - 100 years old, which doesn’t matter as foudres are almost neutral even when new).
Bottle it two years later.
I have just described in great detail the entire winegrowing and winemaking technique at Pegau.
This is why the wine tastes good and lives forever.

Dan Kravitz

Thanks! I just loaded up on some 2017, including mags, and for reasons I cannot explain, double mags. Coulda used one tonight!

I’d add St. Prefert (unless that’s what Gerhard meant by Ferrand?). Also, I agree Vieux Donjon seems pretty traditional to me, at least based on the 16s that I recently tried.

Clos Mont Olivet, once a true stalwart and still old school by CdP standards are recently as 07 (at which point I gave up on CdP in general).

Good reminder for me to buy and drink more Pegau. If somebody were to ask me what I like in CdP, this would be the first name I would mention. Then I look at my CT and I see I’ve only had 2 bottles over the past 18 months, and somehow none in 2019! Those 2 bottles were two of my best drinking experiences of those past 18 months. Was the 2004 and 2015. Loved them equally and yet for different reasons.

As Arv mentions, Domaine la Milliere is trad. I love them at 8-12 years but they can go longer.
I had a lovely 2009 La Roquete tonight. I’d love to recommend them but honestly don’t know what the new Cuvèes taste like since the Bruniers started splitting up the vineyards into different bottlings. AFIK they are still vinified in concrete and old foudres.

Oh yeah. How could I have forgotten La Roquette. I guess I just mentally lumped them into the VT category.

I might have included Vieux Donjon too, but I haven’t had any recent ones, and there seem to be enough reports that the style is different now. The old ones were long lived classics.