Does fruit forward wine always mean it's "Modern" in style?

I’m curious what the membership thinks. There are plenty of wines which are very fruit forward that still have structure, and will age wonderfully.

No. There are lots of traditionally made wines that are naturally fruity. In reds, I’m thinking zin/primitivo, Beaujolais, lots of Cotes du Rhones and other grenache/garnacha-based wines, Corbieres, dolcetto, barbera, Morellino di Scansano, Lambrusco. The list goes on.

I think where “modern” most suggests fruit forward is with wines that might not otherwise be so much that way – cabernets, syrahs, etc. – and where it takes some work in the cellar to achieve that.

Everyone has their own idea about what “modern” means in wine making, but I consider it primarily to apply to clean, science aided vinification.
I also think international standardization plays into the picture.

I like fruit. I don’t like modern. Or perhaps I should say - the debate remains open - postmodern.

John and Peter nail the answer, IMHO.

I don’t think Ian was asking for a definition of modern. Just whether for a wine to be fruit-forward it had to have been made with “modern” methods.

Merkelbach, the most traditional producer of Riesling in the Mosel, makes fruit forward wines. They age spectacularly well.

Yeah I was thinking of Riesling generally. Had three last night and young Riesling is almost always fruity. If by “fruit forward” the OP means that the fruit is not only noticeable, but perhaps even dominant, then many wines are fruit forward that people here wouldn’t consider modern. If you’ve tasted LdH when it’s freshly fermented, it’s pretty fruity. They don’t release them for years, so most people here wouldn’t consider them modern, but fruit is fruit.

And there’s also expectation. John mentioned some good examples - people expect fruit in Zin and Garnacha and generally drink them young. Zin not so much but Garnacha has been made for many years in different styles, some considered “modern” and some not, but when first finished, it’s pretty fruity.

After that comes aging in tank, barrel, or bottle and some wines remain fruity, others not so much. But in many cases, it really depends on when you open the bottle and drink the wine.

In my experience this completely depends on the expectations of the taster. I’ve been near people that will tell me the California wine we are tasting is very modern and then turn around and wax on about how great the new young big vintage Beaujolais they have tasted are. Those situations give me whiplash.

It’s a definite no for me. It’s more about age than anything. It can also be about vintage, region, grape, skin contact and cluster dropping among other things.

I can say the overlap of fruit forwardness and modern wine-making is much larger than it would be in what I think of as leaning more traditional. It’s definitely not a rule though but it is more often used as a short cut to quick judgement.

It’s hard to think of a sweet riesling that isn’t fruity!

And I’m not sure what modern versus traditional means in that category.

It doesn’t. Isn’t. Wouldn’t.

In my experience this completely depends on the expectations of the taster. I’ve been near people that will tell me the California wine we are tasting is very modern and then turn around and wax on about how great the new young big vintage Beaujolais they have tasted are. Those situations give me whiplash.

Not all Rieslings are sweet - in fact not even the majority (outside Germany)

That’s not at all what John was saying.

The Merkelbach brothers make almost exclusively sweet Riesling.

Apropos to the OP:

https://www.farrvintners.com/blog.php?blog=270

2016 is really a perfect modern vintage. The wines have the fresh acidity of a cooler vintage, but with the purity and ripeness of fruit akin to 2010 or 2005. The tannins are more refined than in any vintage I have tasted in Bordeaux – persistent and plentiful but fine and superbly integrated. The result is a set of wines that are harmonious and should have long, open drinking windows. The fact that winemakers have moved away from heavy extraction, late picking and high alcohols adds to their quality – these are wines you want to keep going back to rather than being overwhelmed by a single glass.

No. I have had many wines from all over the world that are traditionally made but have plenty of fruit. A few examples would be Ridge Geyserville, Ducru, Montrose, Hudelot-Noellat, Clerget, Pibarnon, Produttori, Pepe, etc.

Even my very favorite Burgundy producer, Jacky Truchot, who really stands for traditionally made wines, made wines full of very beautiful, unbelievably pure fruit.

+1

Perhaps, but we were discussing sweet rieslings.

In fact, the majority of rieslings made in Germany are dry, or very close to it. Sweet German riesling is mainly exported. Few Germans like it.

Lol, you’ve been drinking french wines for too long if you think Ducru, Montrose, and Pibarnon are fruit forward. They have fruit, even lovely fruit, but I would not consider those wines “fruit forward.” I think there are plenty of bojo, granche, barbera and others in which fruit is the star of the show right up front. The dominant front man. But it’s hard to have any of the second growths next to even any of the “traditional” Napa cabs and talk “fruit forward”. Then again, perhaps that means I’ve been drinking Cali wines for too long because I don’t think Ducru, Montrose, and Pibarnon are fruit forward (I do like them, though!).

What does “fruit forward” mean?

I can’t put it much better than this:

Wait, are you equating “forward” with “front”? And “dominant”?

Counselor, that’s quite a stretch. I think the younger John needs to clarify.

PS. Younger John loves 2005 Cos d’Estournel, so one can surmise that his definition of fruit forward may in fact mean modern.