2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

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A Willi@mson
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#101 Post by A Willi@mson » August 13th, 2020, 2:38 pm

Lorenzo F wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:48 am
Tom Taylor wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Lorenzo F wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Vigna rionda ester Canale, once again , top 5 in this vintage imo

Pretty irrelevant for most at $400+ per bottle
Well tom , if we look at the top 5 producers in Piemonte : conterno giacosa roagna both mascarellos even at 400 dollars at bottle it sits on the average price . Are they all irrelevant ? Burlotto with his stellar 2016 probably soon will trade around the 300usd mark . They are all small productions, reminds me of a place France ...we all know how that ended .

Giacosa and G Mascarello aren't widely considered in the top-5 category (well, not after their 05s and 08s, respectively - there of course no shortage legendary bottlings from before those dates). It's hard to put Roagna in there too tbh. I mean, a "top 5" without Cappellano and G rinaldi? Really??

And as for "Barolo is the next burgundy": most burgundies don't weigh in at 15% abv and burgundy doesn't have the farce of a "single cru" that's larger than the entire area under vine in Vosne (and six times larger than the largest red wine GC)
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#102 Post by Lorenzo F » August 13th, 2020, 4:13 pm

A Willi@mson wrote:
August 13th, 2020, 2:38 pm
Lorenzo F wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:48 am
Tom Taylor wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 4:05 pm



Pretty irrelevant for most at $400+ per bottle
Well tom , if we look at the top 5 producers in Piemonte : conterno giacosa roagna both mascarellos even at 400 dollars at bottle it sits on the average price . Are they all irrelevant ? Burlotto with his stellar 2016 probably soon will trade around the 300usd mark . They are all small productions, reminds me of a place France ...we all know how that ended .

Giacosa and G Mascarello aren't widely considered in the top-5 category (well, not after their 05s and 08s, respectively - there of course no shortage legendary bottlings from before those dates). It's hard to put Roagna in there too tbh. I mean, a "top 5" without Cappellano and G rinaldi? Really??

And as for "Barolo is the next burgundy": most burgundies don't weigh in at 15% abv and burgundy doesn't have the farce of a "single cru" that's larger than the entire area under vine in Vosne (and six times larger than the largest red wine GC)
With due respect for rinaldi I don't think he belongs with the names I mentioned in my opinion for continuity and peaks.I agree of course that the true great giacosa came to and end in 2004 .I still put him in the top 5 cos even with a questionable management lately still delivers some amazing wines .regarding cappellano I agree it's a matter of opinions you can include him in the top 5 is that type of caliber of producer but have you tried it lately ? Crichet paye for me is not only in the top 5 is in the top 3 of my favourite nebbiolos without a doubt and that's why I mentioned roagna and the same applies for CA Di morisso imho. I was prepared to argue on ester Canale but not the other 4 to be quite honest . In any case it's nice to have differences in opinions with certain producers.btw I suspect that if burlotto continues in this direction soon is gonna have to be included too or close to be .
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#103 Post by A Willi@mson » August 14th, 2020, 4:29 am

Lorenzo F wrote:
August 13th, 2020, 4:13 pm

With due respect for rinaldi I don't think he belongs with the names I mentioned in my opinion for continuity and peaks.I agree of course that the true great giacosa came to and end in 2004 .I still put him in the top 5 cos even with a questionable management lately still delivers some amazing wines .regarding cappellano I agree it's a matter of opinions you can include him in the top 5 is that type of caliber of producer but have you tried it lately ? Crichet paye for me is not only in the top 5 is in the top 3 of my favourite nebbiolos without a doubt and that's why I mentioned roagna and the same applies for CA Di morisso imho. I was prepared to argue on ester Canale but not the other 4 to be quite honest . In any case it's nice to have differences in opinions with certain producers.btw I suspect that if burlotto continues in this direction soon is gonna have to be included too or close to be .
1) 'beppe Rinaldi passed away last year, so "he" may not belong but I haven't had a wine since the 98s that wasn't exceptional (obviously excepting the 02s, 03s and 05s... but I defy anyone to find a truly great wine from any of those years in piedmont)

2) As for Cappellano - I had both '11s and '12s Pie Francos and Rupestris side-by-side last week. I think I've had the '12 Pie Franco about a dozen times since release.

The nice thing about wine is that many people can see the same bottle differently. Anytime you want to swap your 'beppe Rinaldi Brunate magnums 2:1 for my Burlotto Monvilgiero doppiomagnums, DM me [cheers.gif]
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#104 Post by Markus S » August 14th, 2020, 6:40 am

A Willi@mson wrote:
August 14th, 2020, 4:29 am
1) 'beppe Rinaldi passed away last year, so "he" may not belong but I haven't had a wine since the 98s that wasn't exceptional (obviously excepting the 02s, 03s and 05s... but I defy anyone to find a truly great wine from any of those years in piedmont)
I wouldn't diss the2003. Had one a year or two ago and it was all pure class, drinking very well.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#105 Post by Michael_H » August 14th, 2020, 7:58 am

I'm not sure that I would call it a "truly great" wine, but I was quite happily surprised with a 2003 Cavallotto I had about a year ago. In a really good spot right now and surprisingly fresh considering the vintage.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#106 Post by Tom Taylor » August 14th, 2020, 12:29 pm

I’ve had more than one great wine from 2005
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#107 Post by Andrew Gold » August 14th, 2020, 1:21 pm

One has to take sweeping generalizations on the internet with a big grain of salt...

(maybe including this one?)

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#108 Post by A Willi@mson » August 14th, 2020, 2:40 pm

Tom Taylor wrote:
August 14th, 2020, 12:29 pm
I’ve had more than one great wine from 2005
I'm all ears :-) learning is fun, especially about piedmont wines that might be under the radar due to vintage perception. (unless you're going to say Monfortino - in which was we're just just to have to disagree)
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#109 Post by A Willi@mson » August 14th, 2020, 2:47 pm

Andrew Gold wrote:
August 14th, 2020, 1:21 pm
One has to take sweeping generalizations on the internet with a big grain of salt...

(maybe including this one?)
My point was made in the context of G Rinaldi's last 20 years being up there with the 5 best wines in piedmont. So I'm using the phrase "Truly great wine" in the context of the very best wines the Langhe has to offer. There are no doubt plenty of pretty good wines from 02/03/05 and in some case "very good indeed" but I haven't found any that would make me stop everything I was doing and become a convert to the wines of the Langhe ("piedmont epiphany" wines, if you will)
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#110 Post by Tom Taylor » August 14th, 2020, 3:09 pm

A Willi@mson wrote:
August 14th, 2020, 2:40 pm
Tom Taylor wrote:
August 14th, 2020, 12:29 pm
I’ve had more than one great wine from 2005
I'm all ears :-) learning is fun, especially about piedmont wines that might be under the radar due to vintage perception. (unless you're going to say Monfortino - in which was we're just just to have to disagree)


Off the top of my head I would say Cascina Francia, Brovia Rocche and Giacosa Asili were/are all great wines. Where they among the finest wines I’ve ever had? No, however I would say all were great wines.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#111 Post by Rob M » August 14th, 2020, 3:50 pm

In 2005 I'd say the Giacosa Rocche del Falletto is both a very good wine, perhaps a great one, and also arguably undervalued in my view.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#112 Post by Tom Taylor » August 14th, 2020, 4:14 pm

Rob M wrote:
August 14th, 2020, 3:50 pm
In 2005 I'd say the Giacosa Rocche del Falletto is both a very good wine, perhaps a great one, and also arguably undervalued in my view.


Agreed on possibly a great wine. Needs another 3-4 years at least, one of the more structured 05s
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#113 Post by Lorenzo F » August 16th, 2020, 6:36 am

A Willi@mson wrote:
August 14th, 2020, 4:29 am
Lorenzo F wrote:
August 13th, 2020, 4:13 pm

With due respect for rinaldi I don't think he belongs with the names I mentioned in my opinion for continuity and peaks.I agree of course that the true great giacosa came to and end in 2004 .I still put him in the top 5 cos even with a questionable management lately still delivers some amazing wines .regarding cappellano I agree it's a matter of opinions you can include him in the top 5 is that type of caliber of producer but have you tried it lately ? Crichet paye for me is not only in the top 5 is in the top 3 of my favourite nebbiolos without a doubt and that's why I mentioned roagna and the same applies for CA Di morisso imho. I was prepared to argue on ester Canale but not the other 4 to be quite honest . In any case it's nice to have differences in opinions with certain producers.btw I suspect that if burlotto continues in this direction soon is gonna have to be included too or close to be .
1) 'beppe Rinaldi passed away last year, so "he" may not belong but I haven't had a wine since the 98s that wasn't exceptional (obviously excepting the 02s, 03s and 05s... but I defy anyone to find a truly great wine from any of those years in piedmont)

2) As for Cappellano - I had both '11s and '12s Pie Francos and Rupestris side-by-side last week. I think I've had the '12 Pie Franco about a dozen times since release.

The nice thing about wine is that many people can see the same bottle differently. Anytime you want to swap your 'beppe Rinaldi Brunate magnums 2:1 for my Burlotto Monvilgiero doppiomagnums, DM me [cheers.gif]
Rinaldi,valentini,giacosa etc we need to identify the next top producer .
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#114 Post by A Willi@mson » August 16th, 2020, 1:28 pm

Tom Taylor wrote:
August 14th, 2020, 3:09 pm

Off the top of my head I would say Cascina Francia, Brovia Rocche and Giacosa Asili were/are all great wines. Where they among the finest wines I’ve ever had? No, however I would say all were great wines.
I'm fortunate enough to have had two of those and I would describe them as quite nice rather than great. I would define a great wine as one of the finest - so I think we're in agreement on the vintages, just not on the definition of "great" :)
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#115 Post by F.Daner » August 16th, 2020, 1:52 pm

It seems like this vintage has such a plethora of very good to excellent wines that are all under $100. I won't chase the few trophies when i can get so many quality wines in the $40-90 range. I'm looking forward to following these wines over the next 20 years.
A Willi@mson wrote:
August 16th, 2020, 1:28 pm
Tom Taylor wrote:
August 14th, 2020, 3:09 pm

Off the top of my head I would say Cascina Francia, Brovia Rocche and Giacosa Asili were/are all great wines. Where they among the finest wines I’ve ever had? No, however I would say all were great wines.
I'm fortunate enough to have had two of those and I would describe them as quite nice rather than great. I would define a great wine as one of the finest - so I think we're in agreement on the vintages, just not on the definition of "great" :)
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#116 Post by John Morris » August 16th, 2020, 2:02 pm

F.Daner wrote:
August 16th, 2020, 1:52 pm
It seems like this vintage has such a plethora of very good to excellent wines that are all under $100. I won't chase the few trophies when i can get so many quality wines in the $40-90 range. I'm looking forward to following these wines over the next 20 years.
Very sensible.

Despite many visits to the Langhe over 20 years, I'm not super confident of my own ability to assess very young Barolo and Barbaresco for the long haul, and I'm not sure whose judgments I'd trust with my pocketbook (maybe Walter Speller). The alternative is to buy based on reputation/track record (generally a good approach) or the vintage (probably pretty safe in 2016).
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#117 Post by Lorenzo F » August 21st, 2020, 12:44 pm

Thoughts on the less renowned elio sandri, piero benevelli and piero busso?
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#118 Post by Tom Taylor » August 21st, 2020, 4:07 pm

Lorenzo F wrote:
August 21st, 2020, 12:44 pm
Thoughts on the less renowned elio sandri, piero benevelli and piero busso?


Elio Sandra, shhhhhhh. When I see any Barolo available from Sandri at any level regardless of vintage I buy it. Very hard to come by here in the States
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#119 Post by Michael_H » August 22nd, 2020, 3:01 pm

Sandri releases his wines on a completely different cycle compared to everyone else. His 2016s won't be out for quite a bit.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#120 Post by Sh@n A » August 22nd, 2020, 3:04 pm

Do we have a better sense of vintage quality? Is this the best vintage within a 5YR band (2014-2018).... or the best vintage in a decade+?
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#121 Post by Lorenzo F » August 22nd, 2020, 4:03 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
August 22nd, 2020, 3:04 pm
Do we have a better sense of vintage quality? Is this the best vintage within a 5YR band (2014-2018).... or the best vintage in a decade+?
For me on average we are on 2010 level if not better .time will tell.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#122 Post by JulianD » August 22nd, 2020, 9:52 pm

Lorenzo F wrote:
August 21st, 2020, 12:44 pm
Thoughts on the less renowned elio sandri, piero benevelli and piero busso?
Have heard good things about benevelli, but have not tried yet
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#123 Post by F.Daner » August 23rd, 2020, 5:17 am

First time buying Azelia this year. I picked up both the normale and Bricco. What base Barolo have you purchased so far ? My list so far

Azelia
Cordero
Luigi Pira
Massolino
Scavino
Vajra Albe
Vietti Castiglione
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#124 Post by Jack E » August 23rd, 2020, 6:22 pm

David Baum wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 9:07 pm
I tasted through most of the 16 Scavino line up last week. Modern style but all very good and drinkable today (at least for now). The Fiasc was exceptional. I was able to order whatever I wanted

91C7FEB8-B6B8-49D1-B320-E6B4E74CD68F.jpeg
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#125 Post by David Baum » August 23rd, 2020, 8:51 pm

I got a few

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#126 Post by AndreasB » August 24th, 2020, 12:17 am

F.Daner wrote:
August 23rd, 2020, 5:17 am
First time buying Azelia this year. I picked up both the normale and Bricco. What base Barolo have you purchased so far ? My list so far

Azelia
Cordero
Luigi Pira
Massolino
Scavino
Vajra Albe
Vietti Castiglione
Here is where am at regarding base barolo:
Fratelli Alessandria
Brovia
Vietti
Burlotto
Principiano
Produttori
Trediberri

Still considering:
Luigi Pira
Scavino
Francesco Rinaldi
A ch

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#127 Post by Tom Taylor » August 24th, 2020, 3:55 am

Found some 2016 Brovia Ca Mia for $90 over the weekend
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#128 Post by JulianD » September 2nd, 2020, 4:45 pm

Seems like burlotto is sold out everywhere in SoCal... can’t find any
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#129 Post by F.Daner » September 12th, 2020, 5:47 am

The 2 bottles I've been able to find I snagged from Eataly LA. Its hit the East coast but at $80 a bottle.
I found a local market that had all the 15's available. I couldn't believe it. Purchased the Normale, Canubi and Monvigliero.

Opened the 15 normale last night and it was excellent. So light and ethreal. A really beautiful wine. We also had the 16 Cordero Monfalletto which is modern in style. Really interesting to compare the 2 wines. I loved them both. The Codero is my qpr of the year at $38. There is a richness and a bit more fullness to it I believe from oak but it's really in balance and just flat out great.
JulianD wrote:
September 2nd, 2020, 4:45 pm
Seems like burlotto is sold out everywhere in SoCal... can’t find any
Last edited by F.Daner on September 12th, 2020, 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#130 Post by Sh@n A » September 12th, 2020, 6:09 am

Anyone try F Rinaldi 16s?
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#131 Post by Kirk.Grant » September 12th, 2020, 6:16 am

Tom Taylor wrote:
August 24th, 2020, 3:55 am
Found some 2016 Brovia Ca Mia for $90 over the weekend
That is a great find...based on the prices I've seen the past month or so.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#132 Post by Jeff Rosenberg » September 12th, 2020, 7:26 am

JulianD wrote:
September 2nd, 2020, 4:45 pm
Seems like burlotto is sold out everywhere in SoCal... can’t find any
Strangely, a couple days ago, I was offered the 2016 G.B. Burlotto Barolo Monvigliero for $225/bottle at a local restaurant.

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#133 Post by F.Daner » September 12th, 2020, 8:29 am

Not yet. I have the regular and Brunate on order. Not a big price difference for the Brunate.
Sh@n A wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 6:09 am
Anyone try F Rinaldi 16s?
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#134 Post by F.Daner » September 16th, 2020, 5:18 am

That might be as good as a price you'll find at this point.
Jeff Rosenberg wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 7:26 am
JulianD wrote:
September 2nd, 2020, 4:45 pm
Seems like burlotto is sold out everywhere in SoCal... can’t find any
Strangely, a couple days ago, I was offered the 2016 G.B. Burlotto Barolo Monvigliero for $225/bottle at a local restaurant.
Fred

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#135 Post by emile bond » September 18th, 2020, 7:09 pm

Oliver McCrum wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 9:15 am
I think the best '14s are beautiful, elegant wines, which makes no sense given the weather. I'm cellaring a lot of 12s and 14s for nearer term drinking.
Castello di Verduno Barbaresco 2014 is delicious tonight.

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

#136 Post by OwenB » September 19th, 2020, 5:32 am

I stumbled upon a few bottles of Chiara Boschis Barolo Via Nuova 2016 for <$100. I think it got 100 pts from AG and seems to be pretty hard to find.
    8 A $ H A

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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #137 Post by F.Daner » September 19th, 2020, 7:31 am

    funny these were impossible to find and now they have popped up a few times. Under $100 should be close to regular retail here in the US. I got a few at that price and some more at $119 a bottle. Northeast and West coast had many of the top names.

    I just purchased F. Allesandria from Woodland Hills. They have the complete line up.
    OwenB wrote:
    September 19th, 2020, 5:32 am
    I stumbled upon a few bottles of Chiara Boschis Barolo Via Nuova 2016 for <$100. I think it got 100 pts from AG and seems to be pretty hard to find.
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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #138 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 19th, 2020, 11:54 am

    I’ve dialed back on buying young Barolo as prices on the ones I like best have increased and given the aging curve. But I did pull the trigger on Brovia normale. I’m really looking forward to trying it. The ‘13 was so fabulous on release.

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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #139 Post by Gregory Dal Piaz » September 19th, 2020, 11:58 am

    Jayson Cohen wrote:
    September 19th, 2020, 11:54 am
    I’ve dialed back on buying young Barolo as prices on the ones I like best have increased and given the aging curve. But I did pull the trigger on Brovia normale. I’m really looking forward to trying it. The ‘13 was so fabulous on release.
    It's terrific. The 15 is also bursting with appeal and each time I drink it, probably 5-6 bottles over the past year, it gets better and better. Arguably the best buy in all of Barolo. Though Roagna's Langhe Rosso offers some stiff competition, as does both Oddero and Massolino Calssicos.

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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #140 Post by Cristian Dezso » September 19th, 2020, 8:30 pm

    Gregory Dal Piaz wrote:
    September 19th, 2020, 11:58 am
    Jayson Cohen wrote:
    September 19th, 2020, 11:54 am
    I’ve dialed back on buying young Barolo as prices on the ones I like best have increased and given the aging curve. But I did pull the trigger on Brovia normale. I’m really looking forward to trying it. The ‘13 was so fabulous on release.
    It's terrific. The 15 is also bursting with appeal and each time I drink it, probably 5-6 bottles over the past year, it gets better and better. Arguably the best buy in all of Barolo. Though Roagna's Langhe Rosso offers some stiff competition, as does both Oddero and Massolino Calssicos.

    Why am I drinking Burgundy tongiht?
    Indeed, why? And when are you publishing your 2016 Barolo report? Were you able to taste as broadly as in past years? Or not this time? I always enjoy reading your views.

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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #141 Post by Cristian Dezso » September 19th, 2020, 8:32 pm

    Cristian Dezso wrote:
    September 19th, 2020, 8:30 pm
    Gregory Dal Piaz wrote:
    September 19th, 2020, 11:58 am
    Jayson Cohen wrote:
    September 19th, 2020, 11:54 am
    I’ve dialed back on buying young Barolo as prices on the ones I like best have increased and given the aging curve. But I did pull the trigger on Brovia normale. I’m really looking forward to trying it. The ‘13 was so fabulous on release.
    It's terrific. The 15 is also bursting with appeal and each time I drink it, probably 5-6 bottles over the past year, it gets better and better. Arguably the best buy in all of Barolo. Though Roagna's Langhe Rosso offers some stiff competition, as does both Oddero and Massolino Calssicos.

    Why am I drinking Burgundy tongiht?
    Indeed, why? And when are you publishing your 2016 Barolo report? Were you able to taste as broadly as in past years? Or not this time? I always enjoy reading your views.
    Though funnily I am guilty of the same, tonight :)

    AndreasB
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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #142 Post by AndreasB » September 20th, 2020, 5:08 am

    I recently bought some F. Rinaldi barolo classico 2016. For 29 Euroes I think it is a great value.
    Also picked up some Poderi Colla barolo bussia dardi le rose 2016, because I recently had their Barbaresco Roncaglie 2016, which was fantastic.
    A ch

    F.Daner
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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #143 Post by F.Daner » September 20th, 2020, 7:01 am

    Wow thats a great price. Around $55 here in the US.
    AndreasB wrote:
    September 20th, 2020, 5:08 am
    I recently bought some F. Rinaldi barolo classico 2016. For 29 Euroes I think it is a great value.
    Also picked up some Poderi Colla barolo bussia dardi le rose 2016, because I recently had their Barbaresco Roncaglie 2016, which was fantastic.
    Fred

    Gregory Dal Piaz
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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #144 Post by Gregory Dal Piaz » September 20th, 2020, 4:10 pm

    Cristian Dezso wrote:
    September 19th, 2020, 8:30 pm
    Gregory Dal Piaz wrote:
    September 19th, 2020, 11:58 am
    Jayson Cohen wrote:
    September 19th, 2020, 11:54 am
    I’ve dialed back on buying young Barolo as prices on the ones I like best have increased and given the aging curve. But I did pull the trigger on Brovia normale. I’m really looking forward to trying it. The ‘13 was so fabulous on release.
    It's terrific. The 15 is also bursting with appeal and each time I drink it, probably 5-6 bottles over the past year, it gets better and better. Arguably the best buy in all of Barolo. Though Roagna's Langhe Rosso offers some stiff competition, as does both Oddero and Massolino Calssicos.

    Why am I drinking Burgundy tongiht?
    Indeed, why? And when are you publishing your 2016 Barolo report? Were you able to taste as broadly as in past years? Or not this time? I always enjoy reading your views.
    Hi Cristian,

    Long time no see. Sadly there will be no report of 2016. I missed 4 trips to Piedmont this year so I would have to have relied on very brief comments on barrel samples. It's of course a great vintage across the board. I really missed my trips, first time in over a decade that I missed them. It's a sign, that I need to move on. Drink more burgundy, though I actually switched to a bottle of Rioja, 1996 Contino Reserva Olivas. Good but not great, actually really good, but not exactly my thing and in all honesty the last glass tonight was better than the well decanted wine last night so it was just to young. Serves me right for not drinking Nebbiolo!
    ITB Freelance Writing/Education/Wine Buying
    [url]www.SimplyBetterWines.com[/url]

    Lorenzo F
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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #145 Post by Lorenzo F » September 20th, 2020, 4:40 pm

    Any thoughts on piero busso barbarescos ?
    Fioravanti

    Peter Valiquette
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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #146 Post by Peter Valiquette » September 25th, 2020, 6:47 pm

    What's a good price for 2016 Bartolo Mascarello? Seems like there's a few pretty aggressive retailers on wine searcher.

    Rob M
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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #147 Post by Rob M » September 25th, 2020, 6:59 pm

    Peter Valiquette wrote:
    September 25th, 2020, 6:47 pm
    What's a good price for 2016 Bartolo Mascarello? Seems like there's a few pretty aggressive retailers on wine searcher.
    Peter - very individual as to what you think a good price is, but a normal markup on the retailer's end would probably be $175 or so - maybe a bit less. The winery obviously sells at a reasonable price and so does the importer. That said things appear to have taken a step change higher with the 2016 vintage, which I must admit I'm surprised at, especially given the COVID impact on restaurants, which I assumed took down a good portion of these wines. At this point I'd say anything below $300 is a good price.

    I love the winery and own more Bartolo than just about anything else, but the 2016 prices are getting a bit nuts. I've backfilled the 2013 at lower prices this year than I bought the 2016 at, and to me the '13 is probably a better wine on the margin. The '16 is approaching the price of the 2010 and the '10 is a better wine.
    Rob McLaughlin

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    John Morris
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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #148 Post by John Morris » September 25th, 2020, 8:33 pm

    Rob M wrote:
    September 25th, 2020, 6:59 pm
    Peter Valiquette wrote:
    September 25th, 2020, 6:47 pm
    What's a good price for 2016 Bartolo Mascarello? Seems like there's a few pretty aggressive retailers on wine searcher.
    Peter - very individual as to what you think a good price is, but a normal markup on the retailer's end would probably be $175 or so - maybe a bit less. The winery obviously sells at a reasonable price and so does the importer. That said things appear to have taken a step change higher with the 2016 vintage, which I must admit I'm surprised at, especially given the COVID impact on restaurants, which I assumed took down a good portion of these wines. At this point I'd say anything below $300 is a good price.
    ...
    It's an excellent vintage, but it's also received an extraordinary amount of hype/press. This is certainly the first time anyone has started a thread about what Barolos to buy on pre-arrival. To me, it seems a bit like 2001 with German riesling, when suddenly a wide audience discovered a wine category and rushed to buy the wines. Not that '01 wasn't excellent in Germany, but there were lots of great vintages before and since.
    "But they told me there would be a hand basket."

    "I'm not slurring my words. I'm speaking cursive."

    Sh@n A
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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #149 Post by Sh@n A » September 25th, 2020, 8:54 pm

    2013 intentions thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=142123&p=2384715&hi ... s#p2384715

    Some quotes
    "what the Piedmont-buying world needs RIGHT NOW is some serious hype about 2016 so that importers and distributors will stop focusing on 2013"
    "Brovia villero @100 seems high"
    "Already got an offer for 2013 B Mascarello for $289. No thank you."
    "One of my go to retailer sold me 4 bottles each of the 13 Burlotto barolos. Based on my past experiences, the prices tend to come down or remain stable after the initial excitement. "
    "what's odd is how the back-vintages of Burlotto have shot up in price too, and/or disappeared. WHWC has a lone bottle of 2011 Monvigliero for sale for $99, which is the same as I paid for the 2013 but about 50% more than the 10/11/12 was before the hype about the 2013. I don't see Burlotto Monvig coming back down into the 60s"
    "The 15s and 16s are so impressive that the hype machine might break down, but I doubt it."
    / @ g r @ \

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    John Morris
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    Re: 2016 Barolo : what to buy in en-primeur

    #150 Post by John Morris » September 25th, 2020, 9:07 pm

    But the 2013s were already showing up when that thread began in July 2017.
    "But they told me there would be a hand basket."

    "I'm not slurring my words. I'm speaking cursive."

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