What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

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Chris Seiber
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#51 Post by Chris Seiber » February 14th, 2020, 1:56 pm

Gabe Berk wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 1:27 pm
B. Buzzini wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 6:08 pm
To answer the Q...I'd have to say....OLD VINE ZIN! Greatest "comfort food" type wine...tasty as all hell young...ages into fine claret-like...vineyard history for days! Cheap and obtainable too! [highfive.gif]
+1

Zinfandel goes well with a lot of food. Zinfandel from 100+ year old vines and garners 92-98 points respectively for $30-$40 a bottle seems like the ultimate undervalued wine in the world.
I agree. But I think it depends on what you tend to eat. I eat a lot of grilled meats, a lot of Asian-style meats and vegetables, and I tend to use stronger flavors and spices in my cooking. And as such, zinfandel is often the best, or one of the best, pairings.

For people who emphasize different kinds of eating, it may be suited much less often.

And of course, like everything, it depends on what you like in wine. Wine you like is a much better value than wine you don't like!

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#52 Post by Jim Stewart » February 14th, 2020, 2:05 pm

Chris, you are on a "pithy" roll in this thread. I'm liking it. Kudos and cheers!
Age merely shows what children we remain.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#53 Post by Doug Schulman » February 14th, 2020, 4:04 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 9:59 am
Doug Schulman wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 9:25 am
For me, especially keeping that in mind, Chateau Musar Rouge deserves mention here. Very few wines can evolve into something so great and cost that little on release. And yes, I would pay significantly more per bottle and buy fewer if I had to. I've probably mentioned this in similar threads before, but it's nice to revisit the topic once in a while.
I thought of posting that, and I agree with the sentiment. I'm not sure I can think of another wine with as much distinctiveness, character, and evolutionary upside that you can buy for $40-50 at retail.

But it has its share of detractors, as well as bottle variation/quality issues, so there will be different opinions on it. Maybe that's what keeps the price in its current undervalued state.
I notice people talking about those issues a lot. Funny thing is, I've never seen it. I have had bottles that didn't perform up to expectations (usually those not imported by Broadbent), but I haven't had more than maybe 1-2 bottles that were "dirtier" than others, and I've had quite a few bottles over the years (for example, I've probably opened over a case of the '99, plus drunk from several bottles and a magnum opened by friends, and that's just one vintage). It's worth noting that I find Pegau and a huge percentage of "natural" wines undrinkable. I actually find Musar to be more consistently great than some much more expensive and prestigious wines. I wonder how many of the claims of wild variation in quality have to do with poor storage, which would also kill other wines, though in a different way.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#54 Post by Dan Kravitz » February 14th, 2020, 4:36 pm

I didn't mention it, but +1 me on old vine Zin.

And taking into account global warming, red Bordeaux from basic Appellation, moving through places like Castillon and Fronsac and getting to places like Satellite Saint-Emilion and Graves (not Pessac-Leognan) can be part of the conversation.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#55 Post by Nick Ellis » February 14th, 2020, 5:42 pm

Ian S wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Chenin Blanc, particularly Huet Vouvray. All 3 vineyards produce brilliant wines in all manner of sweetness, which age spectacularly.
+1 on this. I’m drinking a 16 Le Mont Sec right now, and it is a show stopper. This is like Dauvissat/Raveneau level good, and it set me back around $40.

As others have pointed out, lots of amazing Loire values. Baudry, Pèpiére, Raffault and too many others to mention.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#56 Post by jprusack » February 14th, 2020, 6:01 pm

every time i drink baudry's les granges or les grezeaux, i always ask out loud why is this so damn cheap? its almost always punching way above its weight.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#57 Post by Michae1 P0wers » February 14th, 2020, 7:01 pm

Dan Kravitz wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 4:36 pm
I didn't mention it, but +1 me on old vine Zin.

And taking into account global warming, red Bordeaux from basic Appellation, moving through places like Castillon and Fronsac and getting to places like Satellite Saint-Emilion and Graves (not Pessac-Leognan) can be part of the conversation.

Dan Kravitz
Good call on less heralded Bordeaux. Selective choices from petite chateau BDX are certainly up there. The only thing detracting from those wines is that there’s still so much plonk. With careful selection though, there is huge value in that category. Recently had a ‘12 Senejac purchased for $12 that was outstanding on day 2. Ridiculous quality at that price.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#58 Post by Thomas Keim » February 17th, 2020, 4:34 pm

RichardFlack wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 10:26 am
Sherry.
Not trendy. Fortunately.
I would have to agree. A glass of Fino Sherry may be the world's greatest bargain.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#59 Post by Jim Stewart » February 17th, 2020, 4:55 pm

Thomas Keim wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 4:34 pm
RichardFlack wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 10:26 am
Sherry.
Not trendy. Fortunately.
I would have to agree. A glass of Fino Sherry may be the world's greatest bargain.
Thomas and Richard, can you suggest/recommend some Fino Sherry? Thanks.
Age merely shows what children we remain.
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But I've just noticed that my mind is asleep.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#60 Post by Thomas Keim » February 17th, 2020, 5:14 pm

Jim Stewart wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 4:55 pm
Thomas Keim wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 4:34 pm
RichardFlack wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 10:26 am
Sherry.
Not trendy. Fortunately.
I would have to agree. A glass of Fino Sherry may be the world's greatest bargain.
Thomas and Richard, can you suggest/recommend some Fino Sherry? Thanks.
These are all under $20 and probably my three favorites.

Emilio Hidalgo Fino Sherry
Lustau Jarana Fino Sherry
Delgado-Zuleta Fino Sherry
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#61 Post by Bob Semon » February 17th, 2020, 5:35 pm

Producer: Aldo Vajra and family
Vintage: 1993, almost anywhere in the famous European wine regions
Grape: Grasevina

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#62 Post by Nathan V. » February 17th, 2020, 5:38 pm

Bob Semon wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 5:35 pm
Producer: Aldo Vajra and family
Vintage: 1993, almost anywhere in the famous European wine regions
Grape: Grasevina
Bob!!!!
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#63 Post by Bob Semon » February 17th, 2020, 5:49 pm

Nathan V. wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 5:38 pm
Bob Semon wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 5:35 pm
Producer: Aldo Vajra and family
Vintage: 1993, almost anywhere in the famous European wine regions
Grape: Grasevina
Bob!!!!
Ok. You're right, Nathan. I should have given a shout out to Verdicchio, Garganega, and maybe Timorasso, except for some of those prices.

Timorasso! Who even knows what that is?

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#64 Post by Richard Albert » February 17th, 2020, 7:39 pm

2015 Cerbaiona Brunello di Montalcino and you will not find a single bottle on the planet!
It ended up being declassified by the new owners after major sale conflicts with the winery seller, Diego Molinari, it was blended with some 2013, bottled and sold out as a Rosso last year for $30 per bottle in the US.
As Jancis wrote ""Mid ruby that is quite impressively concentrated for this vintage. Subtle nose of raspberry, a hint of tobacco, orange peel and cherry. Already a little progressed, but showing real energy. Really pretty and fresh focused raspberry. Glorious on the palate, with fine and firm tannins on the finish. So unlike any other Rosso di Montalcino from this vintage. Pure class."
Amazing deal, especially when considering the reviews and pricing of recent vintages. Another couple of years in the cellar and it will be a great QPR drinker.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#65 Post by Leonard Maran » February 17th, 2020, 8:44 pm

Many of you are fortunate to be able to enjoy wines that are not on others' radar. Overall, though, particularly when it comes to undervalued wines that I'd want to shout about, it's Rioja 100%. There is a perversity involved here though, as, if it catches on it becomes more expensive. No matter, I'd rather be a champion of these fine wines.

Rioja can be just as delicate as a fine Pinot Noir, and as companionable; it is most versatile. The wine is already aged upon release. It's still possible to buy older bottles easily.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#66 Post by Jeff Vaughan » February 18th, 2020, 4:39 am

Bob Semon wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 5:49 pm
Nathan V. wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 5:38 pm
Bob Semon wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 5:35 pm
Producer: Aldo Vajra and family
Vintage: 1993, almost anywhere in the famous European wine regions
Grape: Grasevina
Bob!!!!
Ok. You're right, Nathan. I should have given a shout out to Verdicchio, Garganega, and maybe Timorasso, except for some of those prices.

Timorasso! Who even knows what that is?
In a very broad sense, Italian whites have to be the most undervalued wines. So many unheralded, but delicious wines.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#67 Post by tpetty » February 18th, 2020, 7:27 pm

This is a great thread for me to refer to in the future, when I'm using one of those $100 off wine.com coupons - although most of these European wines I know nothing about, and don't know how readily available they are on US wine sites.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#68 Post by Dan Kravitz » February 20th, 2020, 5:36 pm

Can't believe I left out Rioja.

I like wine with bottle age and secondary character. Mid-level Crianzas can be found for $10 and abound for ~$11 - 20. For Riservas, add five bucks. Unreal values.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#69 Post by Markus S » February 20th, 2020, 6:25 pm

Jeff Vaughan wrote:
February 18th, 2020, 4:39 am
In a very broad sense, Italian whites have to be the most undervalued wines.
Very broad is right, because most of the Italian whites I like are $100+/bottle (Valenttiini, Miani, Pepe,...), and value is Not a word I would use to describe them.
$ _ € ® e . k @

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#70 Post by Lee Short » February 20th, 2020, 7:08 pm

Jeff Vaughan wrote:
February 18th, 2020, 4:39 am
Bob Semon wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 5:49 pm
Nathan V. wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 5:38 pm


Bob!!!!
Ok. You're right, Nathan. I should have given a shout out to Verdicchio, Garganega, and maybe Timorasso, except for some of those prices.

Timorasso! Who even knows what that is?
In a very broad sense, Italian whites have to be the most undervalued wines. So many unheralded, but delicious wines.
Hard to argue with this. I dunno why they can't get any respect, but there are really great ones at every price level that compete with the value proposition of Muscadet.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#71 Post by alan weinberg » February 20th, 2020, 7:21 pm

white—Muscadet, Pepiere.
red—Rioja.

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#72 Post by G. Greenbaum » February 20th, 2020, 7:49 pm

Pinerolese & Friuli
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#73 Post by Pat Martin » February 20th, 2020, 8:28 pm

Which Rioja bodegas from more recent vintages are you all fans of? I pretty much quit buying Rioja post-2004, but I’d be interested to hear of houses making good, non modernist juice in 2020
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#74 Post by Sean Corbett » February 21st, 2020, 12:45 am

Morellino di Scansano
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#75 Post by Jeff Vaughan » February 21st, 2020, 5:09 am

Markus S wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 6:25 pm
Jeff Vaughan wrote:
February 18th, 2020, 4:39 am
In a very broad sense, Italian whites have to be the most undervalued wines.
Very broad is right, because most of the Italian whites I like are $100+/bottle (Valenttiini, Miani, Pepe,...), and value is Not a word I would use to describe them.
Markus, singling out some of the top producers and then saying value doesn't apply to them, or that region, doesn't make sense to me. I wouldn't use value to describe those producers either. I think there are many white wines in Italy that easily compete with Pepiere Muscadet in the less than $25 category.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#76 Post by Carl Steefel » February 22nd, 2020, 9:40 am

Chris Seiber wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 12:57 pm
Carl Steefel wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 11:57 am
Ian S wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Chenin Blanc, particularly Huet Vouvray. All 3 vineyards produce brilliant wines in all manner of sweetness, which age spectacularly.
Was wondering why this is so undervalued. Maybe if more Loire critics come online (e.g., Vinous), this could change.

Just had the 2017 Huet Le Mont last night. Beautiful wine, rich, yet good acidity really brings out the complex herbal notes on the finish. I think Huet is back(?) at the top of their game now (2016 and 2017 both excellent)...
The price has gone up quite a bit on a percentage basis in the last 7-8 years. I think I was buying 2010 and 2011 Le Mont and Le Haut Lieu (both Sec) for mid to high $20s in the year after release. I think those run mid $30s to mid $40s at retail for current vintages.

That's not to disagree about them being good value - I think they still are. But the word is getting out.

I'd also note they had some uneven vintage results in recent years, plus some premox issues (I've had some premoxed bottles from 2009-2011 vintages in the last few years), so that might play a small role.
Yes, I have had some premox Huet from 2010 in particular. And these wines also did not seem to have the same character as the older bottles, or for that matter, the recent ones. But anyway, this is why I said they seem to be back at the top of their game.

I just bought a case of the 2017 Huet Le Mont for $35 a bottle. Whatever the historical costs, it is not easy to find a world-class wine for $35 in this day and age...

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#77 Post by Jayson Cohen » February 22nd, 2020, 9:07 pm

Nick Ellis wrote:
February 14th, 2020, 5:42 pm
Ian S wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Chenin Blanc, particularly Huet Vouvray. All 3 vineyards produce brilliant wines in all manner of sweetness, which age spectacularly.
+1 on this. I’m drinking a 16 Le Mont Sec right now, and it is a show stopper. This is like Dauvissat/Raveneau level good, and it set me back around $40.

As others have pointed out, lots of amazing Loire values. Baudry, Pèpiére, Raffault and too many others to mention.
The ‘16 Huets went under the radar a bit but are fabulous across the whole range.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#78 Post by MikeVenezia » February 22nd, 2020, 10:58 pm

Richard Albert wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 7:39 pm
2015 Cerbaiona Brunello di Montalcino and you will not find a single bottle on the planet!
It ended up being declassified by the new owners after major sale conflicts with the winery seller, Diego Molinari, it was blended with some 2013, bottled and sold out as a Rosso last year for $30 per bottle in the US.
As Jancis wrote ""Mid ruby that is quite impressively concentrated for this vintage. Subtle nose of raspberry, a hint of tobacco, orange peel and cherry. Already a little progressed, but showing real energy. Really pretty and fresh focused raspberry. Glorious on the palate, with fine and firm tannins on the finish. So unlike any other Rosso di Montalcino from this vintage. Pure class."
Amazing deal, especially when considering the reviews and pricing of recent vintages. Another couple of years in the cellar and it will be a great QPR drinker.
This is right up our alley, where can I find this?!

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#79 Post by Jim Stewart » March 2nd, 2020, 9:01 am

Thomas Keim wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 5:14 pm
Jim Stewart wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 4:55 pm
Thomas Keim wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 4:34 pm


I would have to agree. A glass of Fino Sherry may be the world's greatest bargain.
Thomas and Richard, can you suggest/recommend some Fino Sherry? Thanks.
These are all under $20 and probably my three favorites.

Emilio Hidalgo Fino Sherry
Lustau Jarana Fino Sherry
Delgado-Zuleta Fino Sherry
FWIW. Got a bottle of the Hidalgo and gave it a tryout over three consecutive nights. First by itself, then with Shrimp Scampi, and finally with a Spanish inspired cheese & appetizers plate. The wine was a complete no-go for my wife. For me it was interestingly different, but the flavor profile was not really in my taste pleasure zone. Glad I gave it a go. [cheers.gif]
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#80 Post by Jay Miller » March 2nd, 2020, 9:23 am

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
February 13th, 2020, 10:21 pm
Matt Latuchie wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 7:33 pm
Lee Short wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 5:35 pm
If I'm allowed only one, it's Pepiere's Clos des Briords.
No surprise that I agree with Lee on this one.
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Let's make it a bandwagon.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#81 Post by Ramon C » March 2nd, 2020, 10:58 am

A fan of Pepiere’s Clos des Briords here.

But, I consider it more as great value, rather than undervalued.
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#82 Post by Brian Glas » March 3rd, 2020, 8:00 pm

Sjmotta wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 10:30 am
Lafage Bastide Miraflors and Lafage Narassa, from the Roussillon region. Outrageous QPR. I’m routinely able to pick up on sale for $12-$14... when I first experienced these, I would have thought 3x-4x the ticket.
Agreed. These are great values. I just bought a case last Fall.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#83 Post by Brian Glas » March 3rd, 2020, 8:04 pm

In Washington State the Kevin White wines are excellent and the price is low for the quality.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#84 Post by Dave J » March 3rd, 2020, 9:41 pm

Michae1 P0wers wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 7:40 am
Hard to argue with Loire for the most undervalued region. So much quality and so few truly expensive or unattainable wines. Obviously that is a huge region, but notably each sub-region also qualifies under those criteria. Only Rougeard and maybe some franc de pied bottlings are very expensive or hard to find, or some producers with no/poor US distribution.

German riesling in general as well. You have a few more trophy bottles in that category, particularly GGs, TBAs, and BAs, but the amount of widely available and extremely inexpensive quality bottles is still so high.

Perhaps not the most underrated but I'm increasingly finding Sicily, Etna and Cerasoulo, offer a great deal of value relative to cost.
Are there any specific Loire ones you would recommend? Would also love your thoughts on Sicily etc. Trying to try more stuff and get educated.

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#85 Post by Subu Ramachandran » March 4th, 2020, 5:10 am

Few obvious ones:

Austrian Riesling
German Rieslings as well
Old school Rioja
Etna - Reds and whites

Not well explored in this board:

Gallicia - Reds and whites (Burgundy of spain)
Garnacha from Gredos and few select priorat
Italian Whites

Not so obvious:

Grower Champagne

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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#86 Post by Michae1 P0wers » March 4th, 2020, 7:32 am

Dave J wrote:
March 3rd, 2020, 9:41 pm
Michae1 P0wers wrote:
February 12th, 2020, 7:40 am
Hard to argue with Loire for the most undervalued region. So much quality and so few truly expensive or unattainable wines. Obviously that is a huge region, but notably each sub-region also qualifies under those criteria. Only Rougeard and maybe some franc de pied bottlings are very expensive or hard to find, or some producers with no/poor US distribution.

German riesling in general as well. You have a few more trophy bottles in that category, particularly GGs, TBAs, and BAs, but the amount of widely available and extremely inexpensive quality bottles is still so high.

Perhaps not the most underrated but I'm increasingly finding Sicily, Etna and Cerasoulo, offer a great deal of value relative to cost.
Are there any specific Loire ones you would recommend? Would also love your thoughts on Sicily etc. Trying to try more stuff and get educated.
Many of my Loire suggestions have been covered, but Baudry for reds and Pepiere for whites have to be near the top in terms of quality relative to value. Also in red Breton, Joguet, Domaine de la Butte, Olga Raffault, Thierry Puzelat, and, if you happen to find it, Domaine les Roches; in whites Huet, Chidaine (with a word of warning as to some history of terrible premox), Foreau, Pinon, Landron, Luneau-Papin, and Roches Neuves.

In Sicily, though I'm very much still learning and exploring, some I like include Arianna Occhipinti, Az. Ag. Cos, Calabretta, Gulfi, Tere Nere, and Passopisciaro.

williamwhelan
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Re: What is your pick on the most undervalued wine (producer, vintage, grape, etc.) in the world?

#87 Post by williamwhelan » March 4th, 2020, 8:12 am

Seconded on the Terre Nere wines. The quality and gravitas of those wines at $40-50 for the non-intro level is outstanding.
ITB, DTC sales

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