Buying strategies

I’m in the beginning of my thirties and over the last couple of years my interest within wine has risen exponentially to the point where it is almost the only thing I read about outside work. I enjoy reading through this forum about producers, tastings, discussions etc. I started to build up a wine collection, and could really need some advice in this process. Before I go to my specific questions I just want to give you a little background and context.

My interest in wine started when I met my wife and her family. They really value the whole concept of eating together and enjoying food and wine. They also traveled a lot in France and visited multiple places in Rhone. When I came into this family I had been drinking wine from mostly California, Australia and Chile. Never that charmless sour French stuff . But I was always curios and wanted to learn more about wine, but never really knew how to get started. So through my farther in law I had a lot of southern Rhone and learned about the different areas such as Lirac, Gigondas, Rasteau, Chateauneuf-du-Pape and so on. Later on my wife (girl friend at that time) and I booked a travel to Piemonte, which completely blew us away. The friendliness of people, the food and the landscape were just fabulous. And then we started to taste some young Barolo… I really wanted to like it, but it was impossible for me to derive any pleasure of those young hard as a rock kind of wine. I was confused and frustrated. Then we had a tasting at Scarzello in Barolo, where we tasted an aged Sarmassa Vigna Merenda. I was amazed how a young Barolo could be almost undrinkable just for it to shine years later. That was a real epiphany for me and I was so fascinated how wine could evolve over time.

Today we are drinking mostly wine from either France (Loire, Burgundy, Bordeaux and Rhone), Italy(Piemonte and some Tuscany) and Germany(dry Riesling) But I always try to expand my knowledge about new areas. Now to my question. With the arrival of the 2016 Barolo, I started to think about what my buying strategy should be. I already have a few from 2010, 2012, a bit more of 2013 and a few from 2014, so this is the first vintage in Piemonte where I plan to buy in more volume (before it gets too expensive!). I can’t figure out if I should choose a couple of my favorite producers and go deep in their lineup so I can track the progress of the wine as they age, or I should go for a more diverse approach and only buy 1-2 bottles of the same wine. What is your experience on this? Would you wish you just invested heavily in the very good vintages on a few selected producers or has it been more educational to go broad across vintages and producers? From time to time I read some threats about people saying stuff like “ah had I only did this or that when I started collecting wine then…” So I would also be interested in some general advice for a guy that is starting to build up a collection (I have around 200 bottles).

Most of my purchasing is burgundy. I don’t plan on a number of producers, I just buy all of the ones I like and have access to.

I like to get wines in as many vintages as possible and across each producer’s range. I try to get at least 4 bottles per wine, which allows me to try one bottle young as a reference point and age the other 3 without running out of cellar space as quickly.

For me, the enjoyment of drinking wine is seeing how producers do in different bottlings across different years and following the wines as they age.

I would buy across a variety of different producers, for variety and educational purposes. But I would buy more than 1-2 bottles, buy at least 3 or 4, so that you can try them at different times during their aging.

Buy what you like and buy as much as you can afford …

General advise based on my experience:

Limit purchases of individual wines to 3 bottles and never more than 6 bottles.

Don’t over due it on daily drinkers. You will likely find that they will linger in your cellar as you become more prone to drink well on a regular basis.

Do not over do it on mailing list and never subscribe to wine clubs where you do not get to pick what and how much you buy.

Try to buy some older wines to determine your preferences for aging.

Experiment by buying 1 or 2 bottles of wines you want to try.

Use Critic and Cellar Tracker scores as screening tools but recognize individual tastes may not align.

Try a few vintage champagnes… nearly everyone seems to go there eventually

Have a great time on your journey.

Wise indeed. I wish I this kind of advice when I got into collecting.

I would not load up too much on any one vintage unless you have tasted a number of wines from the vintage. Vintages that are really highly rated often are vintages where the weather was hot and the grapes very ripe. Used to be that these were the wines with enough in them to age well. However, with climate change I don’t think that this is always the case and some wines are overripe and don’t age as well as predicted. Will, for example, 2009 Bordeauxs age well. Ask me in 10 years. And, even here there are very much differences in preference. Some people really like 2003 Bordeauxs, others (like me) do not.

Today, I would rather have more wines from fewer producers than lots of wines from many producers. But, I am in my 60s and have watched my wines mature and so know which producers I wish I had more wines from. From how many of the few producers you would select have you tasted mature wines - and how many of these producers are still making wines in the style they were when the mature wines were made? So, again I would recommend spreading the risk unless you know which wines to buy.

I highly recommend discussing purchases with people (retailers, post here, etc.) before purchasing to see how well wines from your favorite producers age. For example, when I was young, I purchased both 1979 Leoville las Cases and 1979 Pichon Lalande. When they were young, the LLC was the much better wine. As it aged, the PL matched and eventually far surpassed the LLC (it could be the opposite in other vintages like 1982). I am glad I bought some of both.

Realistically, will you hold the wines to maturity or will you get too excited and drink them earlier - a very common issue for most of us. Again an example. For a number of years (probably at least the first 20-25 years, 1982 Cos D’Estournal was the favorite wine of the majority of the people at any tasting of 1982s I attended. For the last 10 years or so, this has not be true as other wines I surpassed it. Was the 1982 Cos the best wine to buy - depends on when you plan on drinking it. Again, talk to people about their experiences with an estate.

Good luck, have fun and don’t worry too much. Assuming you buy wines from good producers, you will probably have a lot of very good wine to enjoy over the years even if it is highly unlikely you will pick the exact right bottle to buy.

Buy quality producers over bargains.

I’m in a similar situation to you in a lot of respects having started collecting relatively recently. While I don’t have the experience of a lot of the people who post on these boards, I wanted to share a few things I’ve learned so far:

First, I would limit larger purchases to vintages and/or producers that you’ve tried before and know you like. Styles vary a lot and it takes time to learn your own preferences.

Second, don’t load up on too many new releases unless you have the wherewithal (and cellar space) to hold the wines to your desired maturity, whenever that is for you. I suggest mixing newer releases with older vintages that are ready to drink now.

Third, if you are buying blind, look for critics whose palates you know you tend to agree with or find and compare different opinions. For example, while I haven’t tried the 2016 Produttori Barbaresco, I was confident putting a few away recently given the overwhelmingly positive feedback from so many people on this board.

Fourth, I’ve so far tended to sample a wide range of producers for current drinking while limiting to a smaller number of favorite producers for longer term cellaring. This has worked particularly well with Burgundy (where you can try to lower end of the range as you’re exploring producers and learning their styles), but may not work as well in other regions.

Finally, be patient (yes easier said than done)! Prices will go up, but based on everything you said it sounds like you’re in this for the long haul.

over the last couple of years > my interest within wine has risen exponentially to the point where it is almost the only thing I read about outside work.

My advice is not to have any “buying strategy”.

If you’re only tasting and drinking wine for the past few years, don’t worry about building a cellar that you’re going to be fascinated with thirty years hence.

Just learn.

Eventually you’ll realize that you like this or that and if you trust your palate, you won’t be chasing things that people post about here or elsewhere, or that receive high praise from critics.

Then buy those, regardless of whether anyone else likes them.

So to your comment about Piedmont - how many wines at the ten, twenty, thirty, and forty year age have you had and from which producers? And ignore all the comments about not opening a wine at ten or twenty years. Just do it and taste it. You DON’T want to load up on some wine that you end up not liking all that much, and there are some producers who you just may not like at all, notwithstanding the praise others lavish on them.

That doesn’t mean big, ripe, modern, whatever. People say your palate will shift and in twenty years you won’t like the wines you like today.

Screw all that too. I think most people just don’t have any confidence in their own palates. In over thirty years I’ve never come to the conclusion that I need to get me some Burgundy or some Champagne.

In life, some people like lean nasty crap and others like big gloopy syrup. Just figure out what you yourself like. And if you get advice from someone who eats regularly at Popeye’s, MacDonald’s, Domino’s, then you know you’re dealing with someone lacking a palate.

I definitely wouldn’t buy cases of anything I wasn’t absolutely sure of. And here’s the good thing - you can usually find older vintages of things. Sure prices go up. But I feel no loss for not having picked up a lot of wine back in the 1970s and 80s. That’s life. I wish I’d held on to my Apple stock when it was $5. There’s always more wine.

And there’s another thread where the OP is asking what to do with wine he doesn’t like that he bought multiple bottles of.

Best of luck!

Oh no.

Here we go on the path to perdition.

Remember there is always another vintage a year away. Some will be good, some better, some not so much, but these could be individual to you, and the only way to suss it out is to try them and find out. I wouldn’t get too caught up on what quantities to buy, because you ought to be able to find many wines again someplace (outside of small producers who produce miniscule amounts and at higher prices than you would have paid earlier), especially Bordeaux and many Piedmont. Don’t overthink this.

I find this to be key. I have lots of producers whom I’ve only bought 1-2 bottles of to try, and 90% of those I’ll never buy from again. I actually try for older vintages here so I get a sense for what they’re like at maturity. Then there’s a mid-tier where I’ll buy a smattering across vintages and cuvees that I like, both old and new. Then there’s a handful (5-7 producers or so) that I’ll buy current releases from in quantity to age

This!

Ignore cellar tracker point scores. The real info is in reading the comments.

I find a lot of misinformation on cellartracker points and notes. When I read notes or scores here, I know who is posting them and can judge whether their palates match mine, their level of experience, etc., based on history of reading their posts. With exceptions, I really don’t know who is writing posts on cellartracter. For example, when I see notes on wines I have tasted, I am often surprised at how many people cannot tell the difference between a wine that is too young and one that is too old. I often read notes by people saying a wine is past its prime when in reality it is closed and needs more time. Some of this could be varying cellar conditions, etc. But, I think a lot of it is inexperience. Also, I often see scores much higher or lower than I would have rated the wine - likely different palates. All this makes me less comfortable with judging whether to buy a wine (or even when to drink it) than I am reading tasting notes here from people where I have been reading their notes for years.

Taste everything you can.
Buy only what you love.
Buy a lot of that.
Best, Jim

1. All roads lead to Burgundy
2. Cell Tracker is a good (but not prefect) place for info.
3. Dont waste your time on stuff you can easily find at Grocery or local wine stores.
4. Make sure your spouse likes the grapes you are buying

B

Honestly I would question #1 because it sounds, based on what some very experienced wine drinkers here say, that Italy or Champagne are just as likely in terms of outcome. But #4 definitely; these days I’m buying more white Burg and BdB Champagne than anything else because it’s where our palate preferences intersect

Much good advice here already. A few more thoughts thrown on the jumbled heap, very Barolo specific.

I understand your challenge with Barolo. The wines that are age worthy are often very hard/tannic young, but even finding them to taste is really challenging. How to solve?

• Buy Langhe Nebbiolo or entry level Barolo and sample them. This is a great way to explore a producer’s style. Plus they come out a year or two before the Barolos so they give you time to taste and plan. Plus they can be excellent in their own way. The 2017s and 2018s are out now. 2015 is the latest Barolo release (2016 just emerging).
• Look for recent ‘back vintage’ wines to taste. There are still a decent amount of 2011/2012/2014 in the market, and these are a bit earlier drinking vintages. I’m not sure about 2015, but you might see sales on it later this year as the 2016s come out. If you loved producer X’ 2012s, then buying a few more 2016s to cellar would be a good idea.
• Look for whatever dribs and drabs of wine are available from the 2000s to sample. 2001/4/6/8/10 are vintages that will likely take longer to come around, but 2005/7/9 are earlier drinking(ish) and could help you find your preferences. I’d only avoid 2002 (a disaster) and 2003 (some good wines but mostly not representative).
• look harder for tastings. They do come around, but pretty darn rarely. NYC is the best, with some in Chi, DC, SF, LA, etc. Hopefully you live near a big city.
• Make new friends with cellars. Dine with them. Organize tasting nights. Seriously. Not hard to do and is fun, social, and educational. I have a lot of good friends I’ve met on this board.
• Try Barbaresco. Everything I’ve written here applies to Barbaresco, and the wines are very similar to Barolo. Cheaper though!
• If you have some producers you already like, go ahead and buy a few cases of 2016 when they come out. Hard to regret. But also see if you can find their 2013s - some are still around and they are likely of similar quality. Whether you want to go deep on a few producers, or buy a few bottles from many is a personal preference that only you can decide.
• visit Piemonte more. Harder but oh so pleasurable!

as another early-30s fairly new to wine buyer, i want to echo this. especially the older vintage thing. 2016 is a really awesome Piedmont vintage that has a ton of balance and is fun to drink young, but these wines are gonna be at their peak 20-50 years from now. make sure you have stuff to drink until then! I bought a bunch of new stuff on release when I started and now am realizing that I am stuck with a full wine fridge and nothing to drink!

Excellent advice. Being more specific on this, Produttori is pretty easy to find, a good value and is often available with some age on it. If you like the basic cuvee, try some of their single vineyard wines.