Question for the BurgHeads

I don’t think this has been asked before. If it has, my humble apologies.

I have far too little in the way of comprehensive experience to answer this for myself. But, from those of you who have had much more…

Can you pick out a clos or vineyard that, for you, best expresses consistently…from year to year…the characteristics of the year’s particular vintage in Burgundy? Would be fascinated to hear thoughts on this. Much thanks in advance.

Mike

Good question- and one that requires decades of experience to properly answer IMHO. I feel only just barely capable of responding.

For my part, I think the answer lies more in producer than in site. And I think that is because a true reflection of vintage is going to come from a very non-interventionist approach in the winemaking process. And by that I mean not only a producer who is not going to try and cover up vintage flaws, but is also not going to periodically to try and enhance a vintage’s strengths to help counter the flaws.

And for me that producer is D’Angerville. And I have always loved them for it, and am able to find a good use for the wines in any vintage.

Plus I would also add that I think what you are looking for is near non-existent today- the market prices are just too high now. Look at all the fires that get lit to stave off the effects of frost, the helicopters- the huge sums spent to fight what nature throws one’s way in so many forms. All of these things, in a pure way of thinking, result in a wine that does not reflect what Mother Nature had on the menu in a given year.

Even if one producer does not join in, the collateral effects of what is done to adjacent plots must have some impact. I also happen to think growing intervention in the vineyard is leading to other problems, but that would be another thread.

I wondered who would be first to look to slant towards producer [grin.gif]

I appreciate the outlook, Tom, and the minefield of asking the question the way I did. But it’s part of why I did it, though I absolutely concede that buried in that question is…sort of an inbuilt assumption of minimal intervention.

Your other thoughts are super-appreciated as well.

Mike - good question. But I suppose it really also depends on producer. I believe many producers from the same vineyard will make vastly different wines given the same vintage.

Are you asking: Given the SAME producer year over year, is there a vineyard that consistently expresses the same characteristics of the year’s particular vintage?

I think it’s hard to answer this question because the conditions that make up a given vintage affect each commune differently.

For example, hail may decimate one village one year, but skip it the next.

And in a given vintage, one village is left unscathed while another is riddled with the aftermath of hail.

So it’s hard to say that a particular swath of land is consistently relaying something each vintage over a period of time.

Does that make sense?

But if I had to answer your question, I would say premier cru vineyards in Chablis. Fat vintages = fat wines and lean years = lean wines.

I think that there are too many micro climates in Burgundy to have one commune or plot speak for the whole region.

Well if everywhere got hailed or frosted the same…

I also am leaning more to producer than to vineyard in Burgundy. But, I am going to go in a different direction than Tom by naming type of producer rather than individual producer. For me, and I cannot say that I really do this in practice except to a small extent, I would lean toward a producer whose strength is the flaw of the vintage. For example, if the vintage is a very ripe one, I might lean toward a producer like Chandon des Briailles or d’Angerville who make structured wines. Or, in a more structured vintage, I might want a producer whose wines have more of a lushness to them like Hudelot-Noellat. But, I cannot say that I do this that often in Burgundy. Rather, I tend to go to the Paulee grand tasting when it is in NYC every other year and go to Burgundy every few years to taste and tend to buy from the producers I have tasted and like.

On the other hand, in German wines, when there is a warmer vintage with lower acidity, if I buy the wines at all, I definitely lean more to the Saar because it is cooler and the wines retain acidity better.

Since Howard mentions CdB, I will give a plug to their Ile des Vergelesses and Les Lavières, always terroir driven at least to my palate.

Off topic but did you see Pierre Amiot is splitting up the domaine?

So I am not off the hook so easy then.

Been giving this some thought, and taking into account the presumption of minimal intervention, and given my past experiences with Burgundies in vintages bad and good- I think the answer needs to be a site with an uncommonly persistent and unique terroir expression, but also a site with a certain amount of inherent sheer power, relatively speaking.

And under those terms, the best answer in my opinion is La Tache, followed closely by Musigny.

I would look at crus that have a few very good producers but aren’t so large that they’re spread across a large number.

Les Saint Georges
Clos des Ducs
Clos St. Jacques

I think those are benchmark sites with in their villages and are, generally, made by high level wineries that show the places wonderfully. They may not be on as grand a scale as the top crus but the combo of the breadth and quality of producer along with the dynamic natures of these sites makes for wines that rarely disappoint.

Then again it’s 4:30 in the morning so what do I know?

Interesting. Do you have a link for how and why this is happening?

Email the other day pushing out the 2018 vintage pricing . Here it is…

April 9th

Good evening,
We hope that you and your family are safe during this particular time.
From our side, this situation reminds us that nature always decides. Then, we should remain humble, patient while staying optimistic and ready to fight the disease.
Despite the quarantine, we are hopefully able to work in the vineyards. At this time of the year, we have to finish the pruning, repair some trellis, tie cans and we will plow before bud burst. Nowadays, we can say that “the vine is crying”, which means that the sap is flowing.
Hopefully, 2020 will be a great first harvest for both our wine estates. Indeed, we might have already mentioned it: since the arrival of the 6th generation, we are reorganizing the domaine Pierre Amiot by creating two new wine estates. On one side, the domaine “Didier Amiot” and on the other side, the domaine “Amiot et Fils”, with Léon joining his father Jean-Louis. Starting from the 2020 vintage, you will be able to taste and buy wines from both wineries. We will keep you informed about the evolutions, always keeping in mind that our mission is to provide you with the best of our terroir.
Meanwhile, we are very happy to present you the 2018 vintage: this sunny year delivered some concentrated and mature wines. Well-balanced, the tannins are still there, which is quite pleasant. Volume and opulence are typical of 2018. The exceptional ripeness of tannins enables to enjoy this vintage early, as well as after some ageing.
As of now, you can reserve or directly order our wine (we can find some delivery solutions). We hope to see you very soon at the domaine in order to taste this wonderful vintage.
We remain at your disposal for more information.

Kind regards,
Didier, Jean-Louis, Chantal and Léon


DOMAINE Pierre AMIOT & Fils
27, grande rue - 21220 Morey-Saint-Denis

My close friend Heather, whose palate and knowledge I respect tremendously, would say you know a lot. She also picked out Clos des Ducs and Clos St. Jacques, along with Genevrieres for white. She and I may chat about this today, since for me Genevrieres would almost be the opposite—it is the plot that I would have the most confidence picking out blind no matter the vintage…which isn’t saying I’d have that much confidence :wink:

She also observed that vintage characteristics usually show through the most when the wine is young.

Tom, appreciate you giving extra thought. I’ve had next to no La Tache or Musigny, so have no empirical basis to think about those locations.

I have been giving this some thought as well before answering and definitely don’t have the experience with aged burgundy as other posters, but one vineyard I would consider would be Champans. Most of my experience here is with Angerville but I think their Champans reflects vintage character very well, although my experience is primarily within the last 15 years. I like it more than ducs for this purpose because I think ducs is less accessible as a young wine.

05 was monolithic and tasted very young
06 was relatively tight and inaccessible, even now
07 was generous, friendly, and open
08 was acidic and tight
09 was rich, lush, and generous
10 was structured and beautiful
11 had a hint of green and was austere
12 was structured with depth
13 was less ripe with acidity, but more generous than 08
14 was structured with less depth than 12
15 was lush, ripe, similar to 09 but almost overripe(I believe this was the wine Fred dame liked in somm 3)
16 was structured and less ripe than 15
17 was similar to 07 with a bit more structure

I think that pretty much matches what people thought of the vintages as a whole.

Michael,

If the goal is to see only vintage, as many other variables must be as fixed as is possible. I picked those three because they all have benchmark producers of consistently excellent wines, whose style hasn’t changed significantly, nor have their plots seen dramatic replanting in recent years (to the best of my knowledge). They also all convey a strong sense of place that can still be seen through the stylistic lens of different vignerons.

Firm vintage imprints show most obviously and specifically in youth, but with age they develop into more of a leaning…cool vs warm, intense vs thin…etc.

This is a fascinating discussion…I would love to hear more thoughts on this.

Mike, you posed the question…what say you?

H

I guess my thought on ducs is that it’s very hard to gauge because I wouldn’t open one earlier than 10 years and therefore my experience with it is much less than Champans which is accessible enough to the point where I’ve drank every vintage in the last 15 years more or less.

Sigh. See? Look what happens when you let a fox–even a pretty one–into the henhouse. Fox doesn’t go after the hens, she goes after the farmer. [grin.gif]

I really don’t feel qualified to answer (though I did feel qualified to be the [stirthepothal.gif] for the question ). If I was cornered against a wall, though, I would probably blurt out Chablis Les Clos. I think I’ve had enough of that in enough different vintages to feel that the site does often reflect the vintage, at least in Chablis.

My answer is similar to Tom Reddick’s: you need to find a producer that will be honest to the vintage and that does not have a powerful signature that can overwhelm vintage characteristics (like Fourrier or Comte Liger-Belair). D’Angerville was a good call.

I’ll also throw out Ghislaine Barthod’s Chambolles. I find her wines transparent and detailed and all quite unique expressions of their vintage, village, and terroir. I was thinking about this the other night while drinking a '08 Barthod Chambolle AOC, which showed everything great and troubling about the vintage in minute detail. I wrote the following note:

Delicious villages that exemplifies what I like about Red Burgundy. But this was also an exercise in why you need to let certain wines breathe. Upon opening, this shows the bad side of 08. It is initially very acidic, quite lean, and lacking in fruit. Although I often enjoy bright, angular Burgs, this is an extreme example – at least initially. But with 2-3 hours in the decanter, it begins to show everything great about 08. The fruit really fleshes out and the acids mellow. And with 4-5 hours in the decanter, the fruit becomes even more beautiful and layered but without losing the initial brightness. When it all comes together, this wine is just a flat-out gorgeous Chambolle, with crunchy red fruits, fine details, and real minerality. This is a wine that would never, ever be confused for anything but Burgundy, and it’s not one that would appeal to a New World palate. But it’s so satisfying for what it is. (92 pts)