Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

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Sarah Kirschbaum
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Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#1 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » April 18th, 2020, 4:51 am

We've been opening mostly modest, food friendly, easy going wines during lock down and enjoying them thoroughly. But this weekend we took delivery of some gorgeous blonde morels from Oregon and asparagus from California, and decided to pull a few higher end bottles to celebrate these quintessential spring luxuries.

2007 François Raveneau Chablis 1er Cru Montée de Tonnerre - first out of this case from an impeccable source in the UK, shipped and stored properly. Did a quick decant, planning to drink over dinner. Color was bright gold, what I'd expect for it's age. We poured two glasses and quickly determined that the wine was sound. The nose was restrained, but no signs of flaws, with pretty typical Raveneau flavor profile. When we tasted, it was recognizably Raveneau, recognizably sound, but.....zero fireworks. Okay, maybe it needed more air. So we put the decanter aside, leaving our glass on the table, and decided to try the Ramonet.

2014 Jean-Claude Ramonet Chassagne-Montrachet 1er Cru Les Vergers - also from a pristine case purchased in the UK. Since we have a nice stash of this wine, we thought it would make sense to try one young, especially given all the glowing notes I've read. We assumed this would need some air, based on familiarity with other young Ramonets, so decanted it about an hour before dinner, planning to drink it after the Raveneau, which would give it a couple of hours of air. It poured a bit darker than I would have expected, but there were no signs of premox, no apple cider. There also wasn't much of anything else. Almost no nose at all to begin with, but there were some slight hints of Ramonet mint and a bit of white flower, so figured it might just be very tight. Put it to the side. When we went back to check on it after finding the Raveneau a little dull, we found the palate was equally boring. Really watery through the mid-palate, no stuffing, no depth. A totally uninteresting white wine. We put it back in the bottle and in the fridge and will revisit it tonight, but I don't have very high hopes.

We did return to the Raveneau after the big disappointment of the Ramonet, and drank the rest of the bottle over the next two hours, which is really slow for us. We kept hoping something good would happen, but it remained a decent bottle of Chablis without Raveneau class or depth or zing.

Both my husband and I have had a lot of Raveneau and Ramonet of all ages. We've had a lot of corked bottles, a lot of premoxed bottles, a lot of heat damaged bottles and are pretty good at picking out those signs. We've never had an evening where two bottles which should have been really good, albeit young (the '14 more so), showed so blah. Other than the slightly darker color on the Ramonet than I would have expected, there was nothing overtly wrong with these. But nothing overtly right. Notes on both have been generally good. There was one note on the Ramonet in CT that also described it as pretty dull, so perhaps it is a phase.

I know it's reflex to say they both need more time. The Ramonet could be totally dumb phase right now. I certainly hope that's the case as we have quite a bit more. Just one of those nights? But what a disappointing night! At least the mushrooms and asparagus were great.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#2 Post by Marcus Dean » April 18th, 2020, 6:01 am

Yup just one of those nights when the wines dont shine.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#3 Post by Karl K » April 18th, 2020, 6:33 am

Bummer but it does happen

Hopefully something better soon

Food sounds yummy!
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#4 Post by dcornutt » April 18th, 2020, 6:41 am

Wishing you better bottles with the next dinner Sarah.
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#5 Post by Joshua Kates » April 18th, 2020, 6:59 am

Sorry to hear about your disappointing outing: no great wines, only great bottles, as they say. Perhaps some small part was extra focus/expectation owing to the shutdown? Rarely, have wines such an otherwise entirely empty screen to themselves.

BTW, from whom do you source your morels? I know a few places in Oregon that ship, but their overnight rates tend to be prohibitively expensive.
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#6 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » April 18th, 2020, 7:04 am

Joshua Kates wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 6:59 am

BTW, from whom do you source your morels? I know a few places in Oregon that ship, but their overnight rates tend to be prohibitively expensive.
We get them from Oregon Mushroom Company. If you buy 10 pounds, you get free shipping. So we buy a bunch once a year and share with friends and family.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#7 Post by alan weinberg » April 18th, 2020, 8:11 am

the asparagus killed the wine. 2014 Ramonet is stunning. Either an off bottle or the asparagus killed it. Any left this am to try?

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#8 Post by Claus Jeppesen » April 18th, 2020, 8:16 am

Sarah, I am sure you know the drill. When disappointed with a White Burgundy, grab a Trocken Riesling instead. Have done so numerous times champagne.gif
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#9 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » April 18th, 2020, 8:19 am

alan weinberg wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 8:11 am
the asparagus killed the wine. 2014 Ramonet is stunning. Either an off bottle or the asparagus killed it. Any left this am to try?
This 2014 Ramonet was anything but stunning. And the asparagus did not kill it. Asparagus somewhere in the kitchen can't kill a nose, especially far in advance and hours after eating. Both wines were tasted well in advance of eating and sucked then. Never changed. Asparagus can't kill the palate way in advance and hours after eating either. I've done this meal for 8 years in a row now, with dozens and dozens of white burgs, from villages to grand cru, and not one has ever been even slightly bothered by the mild, fresh, tender asparagus.

As I wrote, we finished the Raveneau last night, have the Ramonet for this evening. This morning, with no evil asparagus in sight, it still had zero nose.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#10 Post by alan weinberg » April 18th, 2020, 8:27 am

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 8:19 am
alan weinberg wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 8:11 am
the asparagus killed the wine. 2014 Ramonet is stunning. Either an off bottle or the asparagus killed it. Any left this am to try?
This 2014 Ramonet was anything but stunning. And the asparagus did not kill it. Asparagus somewhere in the kitchen can't kill a nose, especially far in advance and hours after eating. Both wines were tasted well in advance of eating and sucked then. Never changed. Asparagus can't kill the palate way in advance and hours after eating either. I've done this meal for 8 years in a row now, with dozens and dozens of white burgs, from villages to grand cru, and not one has ever been even slightly bothered by the mild, fresh, tender asparagus.

As I wrote, we finished the Raveneau last night, have the Ramonet for this evening. This morning, with no evil asparagus in sight, it still had zero nose.
I hate asparagus. It killed it for me! Hahahah. Sell me that nasty Ramonet.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#11 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » April 18th, 2020, 8:37 am

alan weinberg wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 8:27 am
I hate asparagus. It killed it for me! Hahahah. Sell me that nasty Ramonet.
Lol. Fair enough. We went deep on the Ramonet 1er crus in 2014. If they don't please us more than this, you bet I'll sell them. But it'll take me a few more bottles and a few more years to make that sad call. Hope springs eternal.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#12 Post by alan weinberg » April 18th, 2020, 9:34 am


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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#13 Post by Matthew King » April 18th, 2020, 10:16 am

Thank you for calling them as you see them. I find it helpful when people share notes about fails from fabled houses instead of just sharing glowing reviews.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#14 Post by alan weinberg » April 18th, 2020, 10:20 am

Matthew King wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 10:16 am
Thank you for calling them as you see them. I find it helpful when people share notes about fails from fabled houses instead of just sharing glowing reviews.

Babe Ruth hit 714 home runs in his career, but he also struck out a then-record 1,330 times ...
guess you could say Sarah isn’t Raving-now.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#15 Post by john stimson » April 18th, 2020, 10:49 am

You know, there are flower days, and then there are leaf days. And then there are manure days.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#16 Post by Fred C » April 18th, 2020, 11:30 am

Blame it on the decant? Same decanter?

When wines don’t show as they should, I end up blaming the decanting process. Easy target. Otherwise I blame it on root day.

The 2014 Raveneau Chablis village is currently drinking well if the 14 Ramonet fails to please today.

Also it is a flower day today.
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#17 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » April 18th, 2020, 11:48 am

Fred C wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 11:30 am
Blame it on the decant? Same decanter?

When wines don’t show as they should, I end up blaming the decanting process. Easy target. Otherwise I blame it on root day.

The 2014 Raveneau Chablis village is currently drinking well if the 14 Ramonet fails to please today.

Also it is a flower day today.
Two different decanters, both clear without odors. My glassware cabinets are steel and glass, so no wood or varnish to impart any odors. Neither wine was decanted excessively far in advance - I am not a fan of extended decants in general, except for old nebbiolo, as you can always wait longer but can't ever take it back. That said, I have always found both Raveneau and Ramonet to benefit from modest decants. I do not think there was anything wrong with the decant - if a 30 to 60 minute decant ruins a wine of this caliber, there is something wrong with the wine.

We'll see how the Ramonet shows tonight. Sadly, I don't have any 2014 Raveneau chablis village. But I have many other good options, never fear.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#18 Post by Fred C » April 18th, 2020, 12:06 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 11:48 am

We'll see how the Ramonet shows tonight. Sadly, I don't have any 2014 Raveneau chablis village. But I have many other good options, never fear.
Looking forward to the followup(s) and tonight’s pairing!

I vote keep opening until something wows as it should.
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#19 Post by Josh Grossman » April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm

I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#20 Post by alan weinberg » April 18th, 2020, 12:55 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
agree with half of what you say—but Oregon and white Burgundy are two different animals. Raveneau’s pox rate is very low and the hit rate very high.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#21 Post by Carl Steefel » April 18th, 2020, 12:56 pm

Almost sounds like low level TCA--I would expect the Raveneau to show better, at least some nose for a 12.5 year old wine.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#22 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » April 18th, 2020, 1:03 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
Not so amazing. I spend my money on white burgundy because I love it, and I don't love wine from Oregon. There is no substitute for white burgundy. Just because I had two disappointing bottles last night doesn't negate the many hundreds of white burgs I've loved, despite premox (last night's wines were not premoxed). The point of my notes was not to flagellate the region. I've had disappointing bottles from each and every region around the world. If I rejected whole regions because I'm sometimes disappointed, I'd have nothing left to drink.

I love champagne, too. I spend some of my money on that as well. It's an "and" not an "or." I drink it often - but I don't drink champagne when what I want is white burgundy.

As for Oregon chardonnay, despite the efforts of many Portland friends, I've never had one I'd spend my money on.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#23 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » April 18th, 2020, 1:05 pm

Carl Steefel wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:56 pm
Almost sounds like low level TCA--I would expect the Raveneau to show better, at least some nose for a 12.5 year old wine.
It is certainly a possibility I'd considered. I would have expected low level TCA to become more and more evident with air, but sometimes that doesn't happen. No way of knowing.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#24 Post by Nathan V. » April 18th, 2020, 1:26 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 1:05 pm
Carl Steefel wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:56 pm
Almost sounds like low level TCA--I would expect the Raveneau to show better, at least some nose for a 12.5 year old wine.
It is certainly a possibility I'd considered. I would have expected low level TCA to become more and more evident with air, but sometimes that doesn't happen. No way of knowing.
I think you should just trust your judgement. I've had too many disappointing bottles from Raveneau, such that, I'm glad I don't chase them especially at current prices. I have a pet theory that the house style doesn't work as well with climate change. In any event, a shame, since many of the best bottles of white wine I've ever had were Raveneau. The cellar at Hostellerie Des Clos was a source for many of these back in my formative years in the 90s.
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#25 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » April 18th, 2020, 2:24 pm

Nathan V. wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 1:26 pm
Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 1:05 pm
Carl Steefel wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:56 pm
Almost sounds like low level TCA--I would expect the Raveneau to show better, at least some nose for a 12.5 year old wine.
It is certainly a possibility I'd considered. I would have expected low level TCA to become more and more evident with air, but sometimes that doesn't happen. No way of knowing.
I think you should just trust your judgement. I've had too many disappointing bottles from Raveneau, such that, I'm glad I don't chase them especially at current prices. I have a pet theory that the house style doesn't work as well with climate change. In any event, a shame, since many of the best bottles of white wine I've ever had were Raveneau. The cellar at Hostellerie Des Clos was a source for many of these back in my formative years in the 90s.
I have not had so many disappointing bottles from Raveneau, thank goodness. I no longer chase them either, due to price, but I'm very glad that both of my husband and I, separately, accumulated them for years before they got stupid expensive. I have had many a wonderful old Raveneau at Hostellerie des Clos, once directly after a tasting at Raveneau. Good times.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#26 Post by Josh Grossman » April 18th, 2020, 2:27 pm

alan weinberg wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:55 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
agree with half of what you say—but Oregon and white Burgundy are two different animals. Raveneau’s pox rate is very low and the hit rate very high.
White Burgandy has to be the lowest QPR of any region? It seems the vast majority of threads are either bad tasting notes or pox related.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#27 Post by lleichtman » April 18th, 2020, 2:29 pm

I have had disappointing bottles of both wines from 2012 and 2014. They are ridiculously expensive to have bad experiences. In fact, I will never buy either one again.
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#28 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » April 18th, 2020, 2:32 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 2:27 pm
alan weinberg wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:55 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
agree with half of what you say—but Oregon and white Burgundy are two different animals. Raveneau’s pox rate is very low and the hit rate very high.
White Burgandy has to be the lowest QPR of any region? It seems the vast majority of threads are either bad tasting notes or pox related.
Could be....but QPR isn't the only priority. I'm not sure I'm great QPR either. But you'd have to ask Jonathan. ;-)

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#29 Post by RyanC » April 18th, 2020, 2:44 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 2:27 pm
alan weinberg wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:55 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
agree with half of what you say—but Oregon and white Burgundy are two different animals. Raveneau’s pox rate is very low and the hit rate very high.
White Burgandy has to be the lowest QPR of any region? It seems the vast majority of threads are either bad tasting notes or pox related.
Napa Cab. By far.

But as much as I love White Burg, it’s not a QPR champion.
C@ughey

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#30 Post by Carl Steefel » April 18th, 2020, 2:46 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 1:05 pm
Carl Steefel wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:56 pm
Almost sounds like low level TCA--I would expect the Raveneau to show better, at least some nose for a 12.5 year old wine.
It is certainly a possibility I'd considered. I would have expected low level TCA to become more and more evident with air, but sometimes that doesn't happen. No way of knowing.
Agree, it should become more evident with air normally. I am in the same boat with some of the others. Raveneau just too expensive, so I don't drink them any more (unless maybe I fly to France and do one there)...

But 2007 was a pretty dang good year, so I still register as surprised... 2007 Dauvissat Clos nearly shattered my jaw when it dropped on the floor... I am a little surprised that somebody has not suggested (or I missed it) that the wine is just not ready, still closed after all these years...

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#31 Post by Greg K » April 18th, 2020, 2:53 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 2:27 pm
alan weinberg wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:55 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
agree with half of what you say—but Oregon and white Burgundy are two different animals. Raveneau’s pox rate is very low and the hit rate very high.
White Burgandy has to be the lowest QPR of any region? It seems the vast majority of threads are either bad tasting notes or pox related.
The vast majority of threads are neither bad tasting notes nor pox related, nor is the goal of drinking wine to achieve optimal QPR. If you're amazed people still spend money on white Burgundy, perhaps you've never had white Burgundy.
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#32 Post by Jim Stewart » April 18th, 2020, 3:10 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 4:51 am
We've been opening mostly modest, food friendly, easy going wines during lock down and enjoying them thoroughly. But this weekend we took delivery of some gorgeous blonde morels from Oregon and asparagus from California, and decided to pull a few higher end bottles to celebrate these quintessential spring luxuries.
...
...
...
Unfortunate for the 'blah' showing of both bottles when 'special' was expected. At least the asparagus and mushrooms came through.

I would be interested in hearing more about some of those "modest, food friendly, easy going wines" that you have enjoyed recently .
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#33 Post by Nathan V. » April 18th, 2020, 3:21 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 2:24 pm
Nathan V. wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 1:26 pm
Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 1:05 pm


It is certainly a possibility I'd considered. I would have expected low level TCA to become more and more evident with air, but sometimes that doesn't happen. No way of knowing.
I think you should just trust your judgement. I've had too many disappointing bottles from Raveneau, such that, I'm glad I don't chase them especially at current prices. I have a pet theory that the house style doesn't work as well with climate change. In any event, a shame, since many of the best bottles of white wine I've ever had were Raveneau. The cellar at Hostellerie Des Clos was a source for many of these back in my formative years in the 90s.
I have not had so many disappointing bottles from Raveneau, thank goodness. I no longer chase them either, due to price, but I'm very glad that both of my husband and I, separately, accumulated them for years before they got stupid expensive. I have had many a wonderful old Raveneau at Hostellerie des Clos, once directly after a tasting at Raveneau. Good times.
Me too! Right down the street. I was treated so well as a solo diner back then. At almost 9 francs to the dollar one Spring I was able to do some damage despite being a graduate student.
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#34 Post by Nathan V. » April 18th, 2020, 3:22 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 2:27 pm
alan weinberg wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:55 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
agree with half of what you say—but Oregon and white Burgundy are two different animals. Raveneau’s pox rate is very low and the hit rate very high.
White Burgandy has to be the lowest QPR of any region? It seems the vast majority of threads are either bad tasting notes or pox related.
It's about chasing the dragon. I don't really bother anymore because my particular dragon, Leflaive Chevalier isn't the wine it once was in addition to being stupid expensive.
ITB-ish.
V = V a n der g r i f t

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#35 Post by Ian Alper » April 18th, 2020, 3:31 pm

Have you had subsequent wines that you enjoyed? Any chance it is virus related? I hope not! Would rather you just had an off bottle!

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#36 Post by Josh Grossman » April 18th, 2020, 3:33 pm

RyanC wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 2:44 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 2:27 pm
alan weinberg wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:55 pm
agree with half of what you say—but Oregon and white Burgundy are two different animals. Raveneau’s pox rate is very low and the hit rate very high.
White Burgandy has to be the lowest QPR of any region? It seems the vast majority of threads are either bad tasting notes or pox related.
Napa Cab. By far.

But as much as I love White Burg, it’s not a QPR champion.
I buy very little of Napa Cab too but at least it's not half bland and/or oxidized. pileon

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#37 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » April 18th, 2020, 3:56 pm

Jim Stewart wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 3:10 pm

I would be interested in hearing more about some of those "modest, food friendly, easy going wines" that you have enjoyed recently .
Sure - here are my tasting notes from everything we opened in the first half of April:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=169167

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#38 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » April 18th, 2020, 3:57 pm

Ian Alper wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 3:31 pm
Have you had subsequent wines that you enjoyed? Any chance it is virus related? I hope not! Would rather you just had an off bottle!
Not virus - I'm tasting plenty of other complex, delicate wines and foods tasting wonderful. Thanks for the concern!

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#39 Post by Howard Cooper » April 18th, 2020, 4:14 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 8:37 am
alan weinberg wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 8:27 am
I hate asparagus. It killed it for me! Hahahah. Sell me that nasty Ramonet.
Lol. Fair enough. We went deep on the Ramonet 1er crus in 2014. If they don't please us more than this, you bet I'll sell them. But it'll take me a few more bottles and a few more years to make that sad call. Hope springs eternal.
Sorry, the wines were not that good. Very surprised about the Ramonet. I have not had the Vergers, but I have had the 2014 Morgeot a couple of times and it has been stunning. I wonder if this was just an off bottle.

Hopefully, you will enjoy the other 2014 Ramonets you have.
Last edited by Howard Cooper on April 18th, 2020, 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#40 Post by Howard Cooper » April 18th, 2020, 4:17 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
I am amazed that people spend money on Oregon wines when they can buy Burgundy. I have not had any Oregon wines that I prefer to a good Bourgogne Blanc or Rouge.
Howard

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#41 Post by Josh Grossman » April 18th, 2020, 4:25 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 4:17 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
I am amazed that people spend money on Oregon wines when they can buy Burgundy. I have not had any Oregon wines that I prefer to a good Bourgogne Blanc or Rouge.
I can at least taste a large difference on the reds but, to my understanding, a primary characteristic of chardonnay is its ability to take on secondary characteristics of the winemaker. I still buy a fair amount of Chablis but new oak and bruised apples aren't my cup of tea. I personally wonder how much Meursault and Montrachet would taste like Volnay if they would tear out the crappy chardonnay grapes and put in some nice pinot noir? At least it doesn't taste like fake butter and popcorn. I'll take bland sherry over that.
Last edited by Josh Grossman on April 18th, 2020, 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#42 Post by Mike Grammer » April 18th, 2020, 4:28 pm

I have, but they have so far been few and far between, and in the whites, not Chardy---a 1988 Eyrie Pinot Gris was marvelicious and a Golden Cluster Coury Old Vines Semillon was a truly fascinating drink.

Sarah---I think I know what Jonathan would say as to whether you're QPR or not ;)

As others, sorry to hear about the meh results, but glad to have you post them.

My last Ramonet was about 7 months ago:

"2015 Ramonet Chassagne Montrachet Ruchottes

Stylish for sure, and accessible, with baseline pear core and some buttered toast, this is quite silky and has a touch of sweet, but also is missing for me some real extra gear. Very likeable wine, but a memorable keeper? Maybe not as much. Of all the plots Ramonet handles, I think I've had the most variation with Ruchottes."
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#43 Post by alan weinberg » April 18th, 2020, 4:54 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 4:17 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
I am amazed that people spend money on Oregon wines when they can buy Burgundy. I have not had any Oregon wines that I prefer to a good Bourgogne Blanc or Rouge.
hahah. Nice twist.

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#44 Post by Howard Cooper » April 18th, 2020, 4:55 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 4:51 am
At least the mushrooms and asparagus were great.
In these times, I am glad to read that you could smell and taste the food. Better for something to be wrong with the Ramonet and Raveneau than something to be wrong with you two.
Howard

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#45 Post by P@u1_M3nk3s » April 18th, 2020, 5:46 pm

Very disappointing to read. 2007 was my last Raveneau buy and I haven't opened any yet. As you well know, Montée du Tonnerre is usually a stunner. Sorry to hear that it wasn't. I love that wine. BTW, my pocketbook has moved on to Oregon, and I've had some excellent whites. However, I've never had any that approach Raveneau.
Cheers,
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#46 Post by c fu » April 18th, 2020, 6:18 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 4:17 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
I am amazed that people spend money on Oregon wines when they can buy Burgundy. I have not had any Oregon wines that I prefer to a good Bourgogne Blanc or Rouge.
Walter Scott x novo - I would put it up there with any white burgundy up to $100 (maybe more).

It definitely outclasses any Bourgogne at the same price range.

Try one. You’d be surprised
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#47 Post by P@u1_M3nk3s » April 18th, 2020, 6:21 pm

c fu wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 6:18 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 4:17 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
I am amazed that people spend money on Oregon wines when they can buy Burgundy. I have not had any Oregon wines that I prefer to a good Bourgogne Blanc or Rouge.
I'll be on the lookout now.

Walter Scott x novo - I would put it up there with any white burgundy up to $100 (maybe more).

It definitely outclasses any Bourgogne at the same price range.

Try one. You’d be surprised
Cheers,
Paul

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#48 Post by Andrew M » April 18th, 2020, 6:55 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 4:17 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
I am amazed that people spend money on Oregon wines when they can buy Burgundy. I have not had any Oregon wines that I prefer to a good Bourgogne Blanc or Rouge.
You’re amazed that not everyone has the same preferences as you?
M @ k $ ! m ø v ! ç

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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#49 Post by R Roberts » April 18th, 2020, 7:19 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 1:05 pm
Carl Steefel wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:56 pm
Almost sounds like low level TCA--I would expect the Raveneau to show better, at least some nose for a 12.5 year old wine.
It is certainly a possibility I'd considered. I would have expected low level TCA to become more and more evident with air, but sometimes that doesn't happen. No way of knowing.
Sorry to hear about the wines, the meal sounds delicious though. I need more people in my life who gift morels annually!

It sounds like you have multiple bottles of each. Maybe consider opening up another of each to see if its possibly bottle variation? This is an older thread (and unfortunately Wes Hagen's blog no longer exists, though maybe someone more persistent can find it archived somewhere). I'm still convinced TCA impacts wines negatively and is often not noticeable unless you're tasting the same wines repeatedly and know what to expect.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=104159
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Re: Very Disappointing Showings of Raveneau and Ramonet

#50 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » April 18th, 2020, 7:38 pm

c fu wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 6:18 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 4:17 pm
Josh Grossman wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:21 pm
I'm constantly amazed people spend good money on white Burg when there is Oregon and Champagne.
I am amazed that people spend money on Oregon wines when they can buy Burgundy. I have not had any Oregon wines that I prefer to a good Bourgogne Blanc or Rouge.
Walter Scott x novo - I would put it up there with any white burgundy up to $100 (maybe more).

It definitely outclasses any Bourgogne at the same price range.

Try one. You’d be surprised
It’s a really good wine but there’s a lot of good white burg under 100 too; pycm remilly +/- m&m, chassagne vv and ancengenieres as starters. All the grand cru and some premier cru from top producers is up there now, though.

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