"Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

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Howard Cooper
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#51 Post by Howard Cooper » April 22nd, 2020, 3:17 pm

lleichtman wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:13 pm
I don't know how hyped it was but had the 1947 Cheval Blanc on my 70th birthday. It was purchased in 2007 and was quite expensive but it turned out to be one of the best bottles of wine I ever had. Just sublime and still had some fruit after all that time.
1947 Cheval Blanc is one of the most famous wines of the 20th century. [worship.gif]
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#52 Post by lleichtman » April 22nd, 2020, 3:18 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:17 pm
lleichtman wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:13 pm
I don't know how hyped it was but had the 1947 Cheval Blanc on my 70th birthday. It was purchased in 2007 and was quite expensive but it turned out to be one of the best bottles of wine I ever had. Just sublime and still had some fruit after all that time.
1947 Cheval Blanc is one of the most famous wines of the 20th century. [worship.gif]
It lived up to the hype while I did not. This wine will outlive me.
Lawrence G. Leichtman

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#53 Post by Peter Simpson » April 22nd, 2020, 3:35 pm

I've yet to have any bottle of 2000 Bordeaux that has come anywhere near the hype. Parker blew this one big time!

Please don't tell me they just need more time, at my age I most likely don't have enough of it. [wink.gif] [cheers.gif]
Cheers, Peter

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#54 Post by Eric Ifune » April 22nd, 2020, 3:48 pm

Mattstolz wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:56 pm
C Chen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:26 pm
The only producer that immediately comes to mind as not being worth the hype is d'Yquem.
I do remember being pretty underwhelmed by the d'yquem that ive had. give me a sweet riesling for 1/3 the price and I think ill be happier.
I learned early on those are pretty unimpressive too young, at least from the vintages I tried. At 10 years out they've been waxy and not very expressive. At 20 years they're starting to strut. i'd be more comfortable not wasting the effort opening one before 25 years.
This is so true. Young, d'Yquem is no better than any other Sauternes. After 30 plus years, that's when it pulls head and shoulders ahead. Opened a 1976 just last week. Superb!

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#55 Post by Joe G a l e w s k i » April 22nd, 2020, 4:00 pm

Scott M. Bloomberg wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 12:57 pm
New member and first time posting!

Last February for my 30th birthday I drank 3 1989 Bordeux: La Conseillante, Montrose and Lynch Bages. Easily one of my greatest wine experiences.

The 1989 vintage lived up to the hype with La Conseillante being my favorite wine yet. Surprisingly, the Montrose —-most critically acclaimed of them all was my least favorite. Wimped out on getting the 89 Haut Brion or Mission, but will need to try those hopefully soon.

Welcome to the board Scott, and that is a much better lineup than I had for my 30th birthday. But you have a better vintage to work with than I do. Congratulations! So, Lynch Bages or Montrose, those are a horse a piece. I wouldn't kick either of them out of bed. Was it the Lynch Bages or the the La Conseillante that you preferred on that night?

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#56 Post by Doug Schulman » April 22nd, 2020, 4:08 pm

AndyK wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 2:30 pm
Hyped wines that are good/very good, but not worth secondary market prices:LdH Rosado, Gonon
Yeah, I really like both of these wines, but agree that the hype that has led to current secondary pricing is unfounded. I’d be buying Gonon in quantity if I could get it for what I paid a few years ago.

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#57 Post by Markus S » April 22nd, 2020, 4:42 pm

Doug Schulman wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 4:08 pm
AndyK wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 2:30 pm
Hyped wines that are good/very good, but not worth secondary market prices:LdH Rosado, Gonon
Yeah, I really like both of these wines, but agree that the hype that has led to current secondary pricing is unfounded. I’d be buying Gonon in quantity if I could get it for what I paid a few years ago.
Not sure about this. These are benchmark wines.
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#58 Post by Howard Cooper » April 22nd, 2020, 4:43 pm

lleichtman wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:18 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:17 pm
lleichtman wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:13 pm
I don't know how hyped it was but had the 1947 Cheval Blanc on my 70th birthday. It was purchased in 2007 and was quite expensive but it turned out to be one of the best bottles of wine I ever had. Just sublime and still had some fruit after all that time.
1947 Cheval Blanc is one of the most famous wines of the 20th century. [worship.gif]
It lived up to the hype while I did not. This wine will outlive me.
What did Parker rate you?
Howard

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#59 Post by Howard Cooper » April 22nd, 2020, 4:45 pm

Peter Simpson wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:35 pm
I've yet to have any bottle of 2000 Bordeaux that has come anywhere near the hype. Parker blew this one big time!

Please don't tell me they just need more time, at my age I most likely don't have enough of it. [wink.gif] [cheers.gif]
Whether you (or I) have time for wines for mature may determine whether we should have purchased certain wines, but does not impact how good the wine ultimately will be.
Howard

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#60 Post by Kirk.Grant » April 22nd, 2020, 4:50 pm

Doug Schulman wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 10:20 am
Haven't come close to living up to the hype:

'96 Salon
several vintages of Grange (undrinkable; yes, I mean it)
any Quilceda Creek (maybe the hype was all from 1 person, though)
'08 Cristal (I know I'm in the minority here, and maybe with time it will)
many others that were probably just opened at awkward stages of development

Have totally lived up to the hype:

Clos Rougeard (not worth current pricing to me, but clearly best of class, and better than almost all others by a huge margin)
'96 Taittinger Comtes (oh my god)
'96 and '08 Sir Winston Churchill (but '96 seemed to lose its luster over the years, and it should still be young)
Keller (sadly won't pay aftermarket pricing and no longer have a connection for regular retail markup pricing)
old red Burgundy, just in general (not all great, but so many performing above expectations when well chosen, and I'm not talking trophies)
Cerbaiona Brunello (sadly found out too late)
Poggio di Sotto Brunello (not too late!)
probably many others that I'm not thinking of at the moment
How could I forget the '96 Salon...I dumped it down the drain after giving it 12+ hours to show up. Granted it was a weekend full of amazing wines...but it couldn't hold a candle to any of them. Even the $50 Champagnes. It was good, it was aged, but there were NO fireworks like any of the other aged Champagnes I've had.

Also...Didier Dagueneau (his wines live up to all the hype & praise; unfortunately his son's are not reliable enough to justify the cost. Some are great, some are off...and at those prices I'll be buying from the producers that always hit the mark.
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#61 Post by Kirk.Grant » April 22nd, 2020, 4:51 pm

Peter Simpson wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:35 pm
I've yet to have any bottle of 2000 Bordeaux that has come anywhere near the hype. Parker blew this one big time!

Please don't tell me they just need more time, at my age I most likely don't have enough of it. [wink.gif] [cheers.gif]
Peter, try to snag some 75's, 83's, & 86's. They're mostly ready.
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#62 Post by crickey » April 22nd, 2020, 5:14 pm

Several people mentioned (positively) the 2008 Cristal. That one went in my "I don't get it" bucket. Sure, it was probably just too young and tight, but it was just lemony champagne to me. I'm sitting on the rest of my batch hoping it turns into something spectacular.

Many negative examples: perhaps just off bottles. The one I will relate is the one DRC I've ever tried (no, I don't remember the specifics, but it wasn't La Tache, Romanee Conti or Richebourg). It was...good. Really, it was good. But I had a good Burgundy last week that cost me $60, and no one would write paeans to it. The DRC didn't make me want to drop $X thousand to try another.

Fortunately, many examples living up to the hype, too. Just because it was dissed earlier, I will cite d'Yquem, which I credit with changing my life in respect of wine because it was the wine that made me realize that spending a lot of money on a bottle of wine could actually be worth it.
Chri$ Ri¢k€y

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#63 Post by G. Bienstock » April 22nd, 2020, 5:37 pm

Peter Simpson wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:35 pm
I've yet to have any bottle of 2000 Bordeaux that has come anywhere near the hype. Parker blew this one big time!

Please don't tell me they just need more time, at my age I most likely don't have enough of it. [wink.gif] [cheers.gif]
Historically I have not been a big fan of 2000 Bordeaux. A few weeks ago I opened a 2000 Rauzan Segla. My first of 6 bottles purchased. It was stunning albeit on the younger side, WOTY contender.
Glenn

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#64 Post by Brian Pinci » April 22nd, 2020, 7:37 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 10:29 am
Doug Schulman wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 10:20 am
Haven't come close to living up to the hype:

'96 Salon
This is where personal taste really comes into play. The 1996 Salon is one of my favorite Salons. I would put it and 1996 Taittinger CdC about equal, but they taste nothing alike.
I’ve only had Salon once and it was the 1976. Blew me away. We had it at The Hotel Crillon restaurant in Paris. And we had several other wonderful bottles that night, including a 1975 Leoville Las Cases. We were young and stupid and the franc was 10 to 1 against the dollar at the time. We went overboard on that vacation!
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#65 Post by Scott M. Bloomberg » April 22nd, 2020, 8:04 pm

Joe G a l e w s k i wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 4:00 pm
[quote="Scott M. Bloomberg" post_id=2968612 time=<a href="tel:1587585446">1587585446</a> user_id=31011]
New member and first time posting!

Last February for my 30th birthday I drank 3 1989 Bordeux: La Conseillante, Montrose and Lynch Bages. Easily one of my greatest wine experiences.

The 1989 vintage lived up to the hype with La Conseillante being my favorite wine yet. Surprisingly, the Montrose —-most critically acclaimed of them all was my least favorite. Wimped out on getting the 89 Haut Brion or Mission, but will need to try those hopefully soon.

Welcome to the board Scott, and that is a much better lineup than I had for my 30th birthday. But you have a better vintage to work with than I do. Congratulations! So, Lynch Bages or Montrose, those are a horse a piece. I wouldn't kick either of them out of bed. Was it the Lynch Bages or the the La Conseillante that you preferred on that night?
[/quote]

Thanks Joe! I fell for La Conseillante. Fruit, Cigar Box, and spices...first time I’ve ever tasted a wine changing in the glass. Turns out I have expensive taste—-Pomerol doesn’t exactly come cheap.

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#66 Post by David K o l i n » April 22nd, 2020, 8:45 pm

NED VALOIS wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 9:37 am
1992 La Jota 11th anniversary !!
98 points Robert Parker's Wine Advocate
The just-released 1992s from La Jota are stunning. The 1992 Cabernet Sauvignon 11th Anniversary Release (the only Cabernet aged in 100% new oak) is a spectacular wine, among the greatest Cabernet Sauvignons I have recently tasted. The superb nose explodes from the glass, offering a decadent level of sweet black fruits, flowers, vanilla, and spice. Full-bodied, sweeter, more expansive and chewy than the other cuvees, this lavishly rich, beautifully balanced, pure Cabernet Sauvignon can be drunk early in its life, but it promises to last for 20-25 years. It is a tour de force in winemaking! La Jota's twenty acres of vineyards situated high up on Howell Mountain behind the small village of Angwin has consistently proven to be a superb source for red wines, particularly Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc. (RP) (12/1994)
So, did you like it? My experiences have been excellent with this bottle

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#67 Post by Kris Patten » April 22nd, 2020, 8:57 pm

I can think of a few wines where my excitement met reality and wine was mind-blowing....1961 Dom. Leroy Musigny, 1953 Chateau Margaux, and 1985 DRC RC come to mind first. On the flip side I had same expectation for a few wines that didn't meet reality....1982 Cheval Blanc and 1989 Jaboulet La Chapelle, both corked. The wines that just flat out didn't perform, I get over quickly and have forgotten most.
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#68 Post by NED VALOIS » April 22nd, 2020, 9:28 pm

David K o l i n wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 8:45 pm
NED VALOIS wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 9:37 am
1992 La Jota 11th anniversary !!
98 points Robert Parker's Wine Advocate
The just-released 1992s from La Jota are stunning. The 1992 Cabernet Sauvignon 11th Anniversary Release (the only Cabernet aged in 100% new oak) is a spectacular wine, among the greatest Cabernet Sauvignons I have recently tasted. The superb nose explodes from the glass, offering a decadent level of sweet black fruits, flowers, vanilla, and spice. Full-bodied, sweeter, more expansive and chewy than the other cuvees, this lavishly rich, beautifully balanced, pure Cabernet Sauvignon can be drunk early in its life, but it promises to last for 20-25 years. It is a tour de force in winemaking! La Jota's twenty acres of vineyards situated high up on Howell Mountain behind the small village of Angwin has consistently proven to be a superb source for red wines, particularly Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc. (RP) (12/1994)
So, did you like it? My experiences have been excellent with this bottle
No, I LOVED IT!!! flirtysmile
Some predicted it would "NEVER BE READY " !

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#69 Post by Martin Zwick » April 22nd, 2020, 11:07 pm

Many years ago, my first 100/100 by Parker. YES

1990 Ch. Montrose
„ When this is all over, nobody will admit to ever having supported it“

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#70 Post by Doug Schulman » April 23rd, 2020, 5:49 am

Markus S wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 4:42 pm
Doug Schulman wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 4:08 pm
AndyK wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 2:30 pm
Hyped wines that are good/very good, but not worth secondary market prices:LdH Rosado, Gonon
Yeah, I really like both of these wines, but agree that the hype that has led to current secondary pricing is unfounded. I’d be buying Gonon in quantity if I could get it for what I paid a few years ago.
Not sure about this. These are benchmark wines.
So is Clos des Briords, but it’s not worth $60 (let alone $100+).

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#71 Post by Ramon C » April 23rd, 2020, 6:11 am

G. Bienstock wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 5:37 pm
Peter Simpson wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:35 pm
I've yet to have any bottle of 2000 Bordeaux that has come anywhere near the hype. Parker blew this one big time!

Please don't tell me they just need more time, at my age I most likely don't have enough of it. [wink.gif] [cheers.gif]
Historically I have not been a big fan of 2000 Bordeaux. A few weeks ago I opened a 2000 Rauzan Segla. My first of 6 bottles purchased. It was stunning albeit on the younger side, WOTY contender.
I knew that there's something in this thread that'll excite! I have bottles of 2000 Rauzan-Segla blindly purchased EP and have not tried ever.
@brera

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#72 Post by Doug Lee » April 23rd, 2020, 7:22 am

Sampled the 2000 Clos de Sarpe just over a year ago and found it really impressive.

Cheers,
Doug

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#73 Post by G. Bienstock » April 23rd, 2020, 7:31 am

Ramon C wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 6:11 am
G. Bienstock wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 5:37 pm
Peter Simpson wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:35 pm
I've yet to have any bottle of 2000 Bordeaux that has come anywhere near the hype. Parker blew this one big time!

Please don't tell me they just need more time, at my age I most likely don't have enough of it. [wink.gif] [cheers.gif]
Historically I have not been a big fan of 2000 Bordeaux. A few weeks ago I opened a 2000 Rauzan Segla. My first of 6 bottles purchased. It was stunning albeit on the younger side, WOTY contender.
I knew that there's something in this thread that'll excite! I have bottles of 2000 Rauzan-Segla blindly purchased EP and have not tried ever.
Pop one now Ramon, just be sure to give it air.
Glenn

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#74 Post by Ramon C » April 23rd, 2020, 7:55 am

G. Bienstock wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 7:31 am
Ramon C wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 6:11 am
G. Bienstock wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 5:37 pm


Historically I have not been a big fan of 2000 Bordeaux. A few weeks ago I opened a 2000 Rauzan Segla. My first of 6 bottles purchased. It was stunning albeit on the younger side, WOTY contender.
I knew that there's something in this thread that'll excite! I have bottles of 2000 Rauzan-Segla blindly purchased EP and have not tried ever.
Pop one now Ramon, just be sure to give it air.
Will do, Glenn.
@brera

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#75 Post by Brandon R » April 23rd, 2020, 8:21 am

Back when I was new to wine, a co-worker somehow heard about the 2001 Paloma Merlot being WS WOTY, so he grabbed a case. After this came to be true, and it was given (I think) a lofty 95 points by Wine Spectator, the hype was certainly there. We opened one together and, yep, to my very young and inexperienced palate that had mostly had great WA wines at that point, the hype was worth it. I was a smitten kitten. It's funny to contemplate how my wine life trajectory might have changed if that wine was really a disappointment in that momenet.
B. Redman

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#76 Post by alan weinberg » April 23rd, 2020, 9:15 am

1990 Leroy and DRC languished on the shelves while California wines were scooped up by admiring folk. I went to Wine Ex and traded Steve a whole bunch of Cali wines for a variety of Leroy and several mixed DRC cases. Coates had called the 90 DRC wines “a cathedral full of archbishops in all their finery.” The 90 Leroy Clos de la Roche, for example, cost $100, Musigny $200. DRC mixed cases included 3 La Tâche and one Romanée Conti cost $2000. One night many years later, by myself, I opened and drank a bottle of the 90 Leroy Musigny. One of about 240 bottles made. The heavens opened and two angels flew down, lifted me onto their shoulders, and flew me around the room. That experience has rarely been replicated, though the 90 DRC come close.

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#77 Post by joeduncan » April 23rd, 2020, 10:17 am

cjsadler wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 5:54 pm
Nate Simon wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 5:32 pm
SQN.
Absolutely not.
I have a friend that occasionally opens a SQN when I'm over. Utterly mystifying to me how these wines command the prices they do.
I tried my first this year. Didn't enjoy it, really not my style at all either!

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#78 Post by Mark Donnelly » April 23rd, 2020, 10:41 am

I've been fortunate to have been impressed by wines that I had hyped up myself, and only a few that have been disappointments. The one that stands out the most, was the first time I had a first growth, a 1983 Margaux, about 10 years ago.

Biggest disappointment for a super hyped wine was a 2005 Vatan Sancerre Clos La Neore that I had last summer. I didn't get it, but some others thought it was amazing. In fact, I personally find that the hype/price for the cult Loire wines (Rougeard, newer Dageneau) don't match up for my palate. Don't get me wrong, I think they are phenomenal wines, but don't get the prices.

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#79 Post by Jonathan Favre » April 23rd, 2020, 11:05 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 1:49 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 1:43 pm
The 2010 Latour is what, $1,200 a bottle? Not even tempted at that price. A little curious of course, and I'd be eager to drink a glass of Robert's bottle, but no not tempted in the slightest
Same price as the 1982, and more than the 2000 and 1990. I know where I’d put my $1200 were I burning up to buy a Latour!
Robert - I had a quick chuckle when I read this. What? He's using his $1200 rescue check to buy Latour neener? Of course not, right? lol

This is a fun exercise and brings back memories! Expectations are what all of us really need to contemplate/temper when trying to enjoy wine with or without friends :). If you think about it - the more open minded you are - theoretically giving you more of a shot to not overshoot perceived stratospheric expectations?

1982 Pichon Lalande maybe for the first time maybe 16-17 years ago first comes to thought (many since...). Fresh case from a good source - relatively cheap to tell you the truth. Man, it was a magical bottle of wine that transformed the entire evening and not just for me. I'm pretty sure it launched a couple people there that night to further chase wines to build cellars. Crazy - it's also well known there there's fairly good bottle variation with this '82 so 1/2 the bottles since have been just OK experiences - I'd say they just showed young :). Fun stuff.

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#80 Post by Markus S » April 23rd, 2020, 11:17 am

alan weinberg wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 9:15 am
...The heavens opened and two angels flew down, lifted me onto their shoulders, and flew me around the room. ...
Did you see the light, too? Not many people return after they've experienced death.
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#81 Post by Doug Schulman » April 23rd, 2020, 11:32 am

Kirk.Grant wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 4:50 pm
Also...Didier Dagueneau (his wines live up to all the hype & praise; unfortunately his son's are not reliable enough to justify the cost.
You know I agree with you here! Didier was one of my favorite winemakers in the world. I think his wines transcend their category.

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#82 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » April 23rd, 2020, 11:36 am

Jonathan Favre wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 11:05 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 1:49 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 1:43 pm
The 2010 Latour is what, $1,200 a bottle? Not even tempted at that price. A little curious of course, and I'd be eager to drink a glass of Robert's bottle, but no not tempted in the slightest
Same price as the 1982, and more than the 2000 and 1990. I know where I’d put my $1200 were I burning up to buy a Latour!
Robert - I had a quick chuckle when I read this. What? He's using his $1200 rescue check to buy Latour neener? Of course not, right? lol

This is a fun exercise and brings back memories! Expectations are what all of us really need to contemplate/temper when trying to enjoy wine with or without friends :). If you think about it - the more open minded you are - theoretically giving you more of a shot to not overshoot perceived stratospheric expectations?

1982 Pichon Lalande maybe for the first time maybe 16-17 years ago first comes to thought (many since...). Fresh case from a good source - relatively cheap to tell you the truth. Man, it was a magical bottle of wine that transformed the entire evening and not just for me. I'm pretty sure it launched a couple people there that night to further chase wines to build cellars. Crazy - it's also well known there there's fairly good bottle variation with this '82 so 1/2 the bottles since have been just OK experiences - I'd say they just showed young :). Fun stuff.
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#83 Post by Jayson Cohen » April 23rd, 2020, 11:57 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 12:31 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 10:29 am
Doug Schulman wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 10:20 am
Haven't come close to living up to the hype:

'96 Salon
This is where personal taste really comes into play. The 1996 Salon is one of my favorite Salons. I would put it and 1996 Taittinger CdC about equal, but they taste nothing alike.
I love both but would add the 1995 Taittinger Comtes to these; a little bit of an outlier for the vintage. Can’t think of another great 1995.
Roederer vintage, Cristal, C Heidsieck BdM

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#84 Post by Jonathan Favre » April 23rd, 2020, 12:20 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 11:36 am
Jonathan Favre wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 11:05 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 1:49 pm


Same price as the 1982, and more than the 2000 and 1990. I know where I’d put my $1200 were I burning up to buy a Latour!
Robert - I had a quick chuckle when I read this. What? He's using his $1200 rescue check to buy Latour neener? Of course not, right? lol

This is a fun exercise and brings back memories! Expectations are what all of us really need to contemplate/temper when trying to enjoy wine with or without friends :). If you think about it - the more open minded you are - theoretically giving you more of a shot to not overshoot perceived stratospheric expectations?

1982 Pichon Lalande maybe for the first time maybe 16-17 years ago first comes to thought (many since...). Fresh case from a good source - relatively cheap to tell you the truth. Man, it was a magical bottle of wine that transformed the entire evening and not just for me. I'm pretty sure it launched a couple people there that night to further chase wines to build cellars. Crazy - it's also well known there there's fairly good bottle variation with this '82 so 1/2 the bottles since have been just OK experiences - I'd say they just showed young :). Fun stuff.
Best. Stimulus. Eva!

Sitting here in my chalet, Hermes silk robe , gucco slippers, sipping on 2010 Latour baby! champagne.gif
[wow.gif] gucco the name of a counterfeit gucci brand? [pillow-fight.gif]

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#85 Post by Jayson Cohen » April 23rd, 2020, 12:43 pm

I feel like there are countless wines that fit the “worth the hype” and “not worth the hype” categories if worth isn’t about cost but rather about reputation independent of cost. And hype can come in different forms. Almost none of these come from my own cellar - I can’t afford many of these.

90 Latour opened by a friend for his 60th last year is certainly worth it. He bought it on release. This wine is insanely good and will outlive us all.

90 Margaux, same friend, same birthday, same purchase. Not worth it. There is something fundamentally wrong with that wine to my taste.

In Champagne I’m in the pro ‘96 Salon camp but recognize there is a lot of bottle variability. The consensus best ‘96 at a ~12-14 wine horizontal in ‘16 over many wines, including Comtes, Peters Cuvee Speciale (Chetillons), Dom, and Dom Oeno. It was one of my two bottles bought on release. And I wasn’t biased here as I brought 6 different wines that day. And it’s better than any of the numerous bottles of 96 Pol Roger SWC I’ve ever tried.

Others living up to the hype:

Old Dom. Pick any vintage.

95 and 96 Comtes. 95 C Heidsieck BdM.

Burgundy: Any Rousseau or La Tache I’ve ever had.

Mugneret-Gibourg Clos Vougeot. To me no one else’s is close on a consistent basis. Its reputation as the best CV is well deserved.

Older Yquem including more recently ‘75 and ‘88.

Climens 71, 75, 86, and 88.

71 Prum WS and Muller Scharzhofberger Auslesen

At the same dinner in 2002 or 2003 hosted by a friend who spent years collecting these wine legends: 64 Right Banks - Petrus, Ausone, VCC, Cheval, Canon, and La Consiellante; 48 VCC; 28 and 34 Ausone.

21, 24, 45, 47, 59, 71, 89 Huet Vouvrays.

Quintarelli.

Everything from Mauro Mascarello that has ever been hyped. I love his Barolos.

Allemand. Juge. Verset. Gentaz.

(Working my way around a map of Europe, not necessarily in a logical progression.)

Lopez de Heredia - everything they make at its own level.

Vega Sicilia Unico from the hyped vintages up to the 81.

The Pepiere Muscadets.

Crossing the pond: late 60s and 70s Mayacamas.

In the can’t live up to hype, I’ll only take two more pot shots. Any SQN and any 90s Martinellis.

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#86 Post by Billbell » April 23rd, 2020, 12:56 pm

hyped, not worth it:
B Mascarello - I understand this is may be controversial and that my sample set may have been too limited in the case of vintages that are fully mature and not representative for the vintages I've tried in their youth...but I drink a good bit of nebbiolo and I just can't justify the prices relative to other producers whose wines are more consistent. That's not to say that I haven't tried great bottles. Hopefully I am wrong here as I have a good bit that I purchased in the last ten years.

Nikolaihof Vinothek - Always seem a bit lacking and sometimes show coarse oxidative flavors.

Trimbach Clos Ste Hune - I adore riesling in all of its glorious forms, and I enjoy CSH, but the hype is lost on me.

Lopez de Heredia reds - I enjoy them but I feel they are over hyped. I've had way more than enough to form my opinion as the library releases were cheap when I started buying and I bought too much, so perhaps this is just palate fatigue. The blancos and rosados are a different story!

hyped and worth it:

G Rinaldi - Almost every bottle I've tried has been spectacular or close to it. The only expensive baroli which I'm tempted to buy at current prices.

Poggio di Sotto Rosso - the brunello is great but the rosso is a sleeper, and still worth the price.

Paolo Bea

Levet

Jacques Selosse

Krug Grande Cuvee - I have a contrarian bent so I missed out on Krug for way too long.

Chateau D'Yquem- I ignored this one also due to my contrarian bent, and they aren't very noteworthy when young, but with a lot of age they are worthy of all the hype and truly profound. Of course, on the rare occasions when I'm lucky enough to try one it's usually at the end of the night so maybe my critical faculties are dulled...

Ulysse Collin

Lopez de Heredia Rosado, at the retail price

Lopez de Heredia Gravonia or Tondonia blanco

Chateau Simone rose

Donnhoff, Schaefer - love them upon release and love them with bottle age

JJ Prum - when given enough time

Dirty and Rowdy - Hardy makes such joyous, beautiful wines.
Last edited by Billbell on April 23rd, 2020, 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#87 Post by Neal.Mollen » April 23rd, 2020, 12:59 pm

C. Keller wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 3:54 pm
95% of wine is overhyped. Very rare that a wine delivers IMO. Scores are just a random, well trained palate of one individual. For every wine one person will like it and one will not.
This seems like a pretty odd place for you to be then
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#88 Post by Wes Barton » April 23rd, 2020, 2:12 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 12:59 pm
C. Keller wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 3:54 pm
95% of wine is overhyped. Very rare that a wine delivers IMO. Scores are just a random, well trained palate of one individual. For every wine one person will like it and one will not.
This seems like a pretty odd place for you to be then
It sounds like somewhere someone would be if they bought some of the more affordable wines that are highly rated by certain critics. Like, Parker could give very high ratings to very controversial to polarizing wines, while still being spot-on with traditionally styled great wines. Understanding his strengths and blind spots and your own palate could make his notes useful. Laube ratings are random to the extreme, unless your preference is over-ripe early drinkers.

But, so many of the classics aren't controversial. Regardless of preferences, they have near universal praise from critics and consumers.

Then again, a lot of the classics need age. Need as in need. They can be outright unpleasant too young. Someone could easily get jaded buying a bunch of very expensive highly rated wines and ignoring the "Drink 2045 to 2080" recommendations for "an early look".
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#89 Post by Neal.Mollen » April 23rd, 2020, 2:18 pm

Wes Barton wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 2:12 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 12:59 pm
C. Keller wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 3:54 pm
95% of wine is overhyped. Very rare that a wine delivers IMO. Scores are just a random, well trained palate of one individual. For every wine one person will like it and one will not.
This seems like a pretty odd place for you to be then
It sounds like somewhere someone would be if they bought some of the more affordable wines that are highly rated by certain critics. Like, Parker could give very high ratings to very controversial to polarizing wines, while still being spot-on with traditionally styled great wines. Understanding his strengths and blind spots and your own palate could make his notes useful. Laube ratings are random to the extreme, unless your preference is over-ripe early drinkers.

But, so many of the classics aren't controversial. Regardless of preferences, they have near universal praise from critics and consumers.

Then again, a lot of the classics need age. Need as in need. They can be outright unpleasant too young. Someone could easily get jaded buying a bunch of very expensive highly rated wines and ignoring the "Drink 2045 to 2080" recommendations for "an early look".
If one thinks that "it's rare that a wine delivers," maybe you just don't like wine very much.

Call me crazy but the vast majority of the wines I buy are pretty much what I expected when I bought them.
Last edited by Neal.Mollen on April 23rd, 2020, 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#90 Post by Lee Braem » April 23rd, 2020, 2:39 pm

To me, not worth the hype:
Sea Smoke
Buccella
Scarecrow

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#91 Post by Nic F. » April 23rd, 2020, 3:15 pm

First post here but I have been lurking for ages. I started appreciating wine when I was in school in Oregon. I would go to the tasting rooms with friends and learn about Pinot Noir. A year after graduating in the early 2000's, one of my friends came into a substantial inheritance and he went crazy buying wine. The most memorable experience was with a 1985 DRC Richebourg that he purchased from a local wine shop. We shared it over a dinner and it was profound. From that day forward, I have an appreciation for what the pinnacle of Pinot Noir can be and would definitely say the hype was worth it.
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#92 Post by Brandon R » April 23rd, 2020, 3:28 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 12:59 pm
C. Keller wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 3:54 pm
95% of wine is overhyped. Very rare that a wine delivers IMO. Scores are just a random, well trained palate of one individual. For every wine one person will like it and one will not.
This seems like a pretty odd place for you to be then
I didn't say anything when I read that post, but I 100% had the same reaction.
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#93 Post by C. Keller » April 23rd, 2020, 3:51 pm

Brandon R wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 3:28 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 12:59 pm
C. Keller wrote:
April 21st, 2020, 3:54 pm
95% of wine is overhyped. Very rare that a wine delivers IMO. Scores are just a random, well trained palate of one individual. For every wine one person will like it and one will not.
This seems like a pretty odd place for you to be then
I didn't say anything when I read that post, but I 100% had the same reaction.
Not knowing the quantity and quality of things we've consumed it's hard to compare. My point was probably drastic when looking back. I'm new at this and still in discovery mode having been at this seriously for 3 years which pales in comparison to this board both from experience and consumption levels. I've never had any of these big names wines that are mentioned here specifically. To be honest, not 1. Maybe I'll hunt one down.

There is the other 5% that I really enjoy and toots my horn just enough. There's also a lot of untouched land I need to explore. For the most part wine is good but there's a lot more bad wine than there is great wine may have been a better way of saying it. Again, very limited experience.
Chris

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#94 Post by Jonathan Favre » April 23rd, 2020, 6:00 pm

Nic F. wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 3:15 pm
First post here but I have been lurking for ages. I started appreciating wine when I was in school in Oregon. I would go to the tasting rooms with friends and learn about Pinot Noir. A year after graduating in the early 2000's, one of my friends came into a substantial inheritance and he went crazy buying wine. The most memorable experience was with a 1985 DRC Richebourg that he purchased from a local wine shop. We shared it over a dinner and it was profound. From that day forward, I have an appreciation for what the pinnacle of Pinot Noir can be and would definitely say the hype was worth it.
Welcome Nic! Same sorta experience with the white wine from DRC for me also.... Late 90's - the '95 DRC Montrachet was still a youngster - I had high expectations especially with the other red wines that were at the dinner that were supposed to blow me away.... It was a magical several ounces of wine - pure, energetic, full of botrytis laced ginger - boom! Had that '95 maybe 15 years later and it was still maybe a 99pt experience only because I had the 100pt experience long ago.

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#95 Post by P. ONeill » April 23rd, 2020, 6:58 pm

As I was getting into wine in the mid-2000s, I had the opportunity to buy some 1990 Haut Brion. I knew of the hierarchy of the 89 and 90, and had written off my chances of an 89 but decided to spring for a few bottles of 1990.

Was it worth it? Doubled, in spades. Still the greatest red wine I've ever tasted.

Honorable mention - a bottle of 1990 Salon, one of three that I bought at a Zachys Auctions sale in 2009. The first was a bit blah. The second.....the greatest champagne I've ever had, absolutely mesmeric. But I'd fetishized the Haut Brion for longer, which made the "was it worth it" score higher. That said, the third bottle of 90 Salon awaits.
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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#96 Post by RyanC » April 23rd, 2020, 7:18 pm

Good thread. My quick thoughts in completely random (and probably confusing) order. I'm purposefully only including "hyped" wines--many/most of my favorites are not below.

Worth the Hype
Rousseau ("worth" it is an interesting concept--but there's no better Burgundy...)
DRC (... except for perhaps DRC)
Allemand (price has caught up to the extreme quality)
Comte Liger-Belair (ditto, but below Rousseau/DRC for me)
Krug (particularly the Grande Cuvee but really all of it)
Raveneau Valmur
JJ Prum
Willi Schaefer
Rayas
08 Cristal
96 Salon
Vega Sicilia Unico
Cheval Blanc/Haut Brion
Bartolo Mascarello (Maria Theresa era)

Not Worth the Hype
Arnaud Ente (I don't get it)
Bizot
Raveneau Clos (as compared to other GCs)
Cathiard (I like/love it but not nearly as good as is hyped)
Mugnier (ditto)
Rouget (ditto)
Prieure-Roch (don't really love it at all, but haven't had a ton)
Gonon (great at $50-70, not at $125; I've never had the VV)
Keller (*ducks*)
Essentially every high-dollar Napa Cab/SQN (cliche but true)
08 Dom
Non-96 Salon
Lafite/Latour/Mouton
Bartolo Mascarello (pre-Maria Theresa era)
C@ughey

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#97 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » April 23rd, 2020, 7:40 pm

Cool list, Ryan.

For me, Mouton has made two of the greatest wines that I’ve ever had, the 1982 and the 1986. Every penny worth the price and worth the hype. Hearing MarkG speak so big about the 2016 has me thinking, even though at 54, this should be a pass. Lafite is extraordinary, but I have to admit, I’ve never had to pay for a bottle. An extraordinarily elegant Bordeaux.

I think you are right about Gonon. Lots of hype about this wine. I love it. And have lots of it. But, I’m not a buyer at $100+. These are after-market hype prices. The VV is as great as any wine made in the Northern Rhône. Rare, expensive, I’ve not sought out more at current pricing and not sure that I even have the access.

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#98 Post by Peter Simpson » April 23rd, 2020, 8:11 pm

Howard Cooper wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 4:45 pm
Peter Simpson wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:35 pm
I've yet to have any bottle of 2000 Bordeaux that has come anywhere near the hype. Parker blew this one big time!

Please don't tell me they just need more time, at my age I most likely don't have enough of it. [wink.gif] [cheers.gif]
Whether you (or I) have time for wines for mature may determine whether we should have purchased certain wines, but does not impact how good the wine ultimately will be.
Thank you Howard for such an insightful post. However, it would have been more timely back in 2004 when I bought all this effing over hyped swill. :-)
Cheers, Peter

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#99 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » April 23rd, 2020, 8:22 pm

Peter Simpson wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 8:11 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 4:45 pm
Peter Simpson wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:35 pm
I've yet to have any bottle of 2000 Bordeaux that has come anywhere near the hype. Parker blew this one big time!

Please don't tell me they just need more time, at my age I most likely don't have enough of it. [wink.gif] [cheers.gif]
Whether you (or I) have time for wines for mature may determine whether we should have purchased certain wines, but does not impact how good the wine ultimately will be.
Thank you Howard for such an insightful post. However, it would have been more timely back in 2004 when I bought all this effing over hyped swill. :-)
Put it all on Commerce Corner for your acquisition cost. I bet it sells promptly. [cheers.gif]

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Re: "Let's see if all of the hype is worth it." Your stories...

#100 Post by Howard Cooper » April 23rd, 2020, 8:23 pm

Peter Simpson wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 8:11 pm
Howard Cooper wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 4:45 pm
Peter Simpson wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 3:35 pm
I've yet to have any bottle of 2000 Bordeaux that has come anywhere near the hype. Parker blew this one big time!

Please don't tell me they just need more time, at my age I most likely don't have enough of it. [wink.gif] [cheers.gif]
Whether you (or I) have time for wines for mature may determine whether we should have purchased certain wines, but does not impact how good the wine ultimately will be.
Thank you Howard for such an insightful post. However, it would have been more timely back in 2004 when I bought all this effing over hyped swill. :-)
I don’t buy much Bordeaux anymore (other than backfilling and wines to be drunk on the younger side) for the same reason.
Howard

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