Oregon PN vs. Santa Barbara PN <<< Kelley Fox, Whitcraft

Took delivery of some new releases and thought it would be fun to compare two Pinot Noirs in a similar price range from different areas. It’s always interesting comparing wines against one another - recently I rated the Kelley Fox higher against a different Pinot that was stylistically outside my wheelhouse, but against the Whitcraft things turned out differently (no formal notes on that one). I think the Mirabai has awesomeness ahead of it, while the Whitcraft is really fun right now.

2018 Kelley Fox Wines Pinot Noir Mirabai - USA, Oregon, Willamette Valley (4/19/2020)
Side by side with 2017 Whitcraft La Lie Fine…

First pop, deep cherry / black cherry nose. Depth, a little tight.

After being open 4 hours, I’m picking up floral, freesia, just a hint of soil, cherry, black cherry, tart red fruit, cranberry, mixed darker berries. Medium bodied. A little astringent on the finish.

Compared to the Whitcraft, a little less graceful, but maybe more of an ager. A much better pairing with tri tip sandwiches and baked beans (but wouldn’t be my first choice for this meal). Obviously young, really good so far! (91 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker

2017 Whitcraft Winery Pinot Noir La Lie Fine V.3 - USA, California, Central Coast, Santa Barbara County (4/19/2020)
Side by side with 2018 Kelley Fox Mirabai…

Cloudy in appearance, but a beautiful ruby color. First pop, wild strawberries on the nose. Tastes like a minimal intervention wine, but no VA. Maybe the slightest little tang, but I like it.

After 4 hours open, it really unfurls. A pure red strawberry fields nose, just a little herbal. Leafy, almost fresh compost on the nose. Fennel. On the palate, it’s all about the red fruit, juicy, glides on the palate. Not tart, mellow, textural. Great acidity. Light/medium bodied.

Compared to the Kelley Fox, this is a redder profile. Gets closer to that “ethereal” feel that we’re all chasing (see their SVD’s for that). For the same-ish price, I vote Whitcraft for the entry level bottling. (92 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker

Note the crazy color on the Whitcraft! Love it. Of note, this is basically a Whitcraft “third wine”. They have their SVD’s, an AVA, and then this leftovers blend of the bottom of unfiltered barrels. Fun stuff!

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Nice. The old adage amongst winos that CA is somehow incapable of producing good Pinot can get a little old at times.

tri tip and baked beans seems like an interesting choice for either of these wines! both of these producers always strike me as more of a roast chicken type of pairing.

but the real winner here if you when drinking these two wines side by side because they’re both fantastic IMO.

Years ago I read a WS article from a som at Del Friscos who liked high acid wines with the fattier cuts of beef, it’s always stuck with me.

??

I’ve found that avowed Burgheads can be skeptical of US Pinots but don’t know any “wino” that believes CA can’t produce good Pinot. CA has a wider variety of available styles and preferences than other Pinot regions…IMHO. My preferences are OR and Burgundy but I’ve had plenty of excellent CA Pinots.

RT

I’d agree but say that both Anderson Valley and that southern section of the Central Coast AVA can produce world class pinot noir. I’m always a bit surprised how cool climate some of those southern Central Coast AVAs really are.

Whitcraft is way down the coast alright. Jim Clendenen at nearby ABC has made his fair share of fine Pinots. I enjoyed the original Sanfords way back when, among others from that area.

RT

I think those “in the know” are aware that there’s more to CA Pinot Noir than what shows up on supermarket shelves. I’m extremely picky, and there’s still more great options than I’ll ever have a chance to taste through. Whitcraft really nails what I’m after, and there’s a lot of others that hang in the same zone.

Great notes indeed - but it did seem like a bit of ‘apples and oranges’ to me. As you said, the Whitcraft is drinking well now - but the Fox seems to have the legs to go out awhile. That’s always the ‘joy’ and the ‘challenge’ of capturing a wine at one specific time, eh>

Interesting comment that you could tell the Whitcraft was ‘minimal intervention’ - would love to hear more about your rationale on this, please.

And PLEASE folks - quit saying ‘Central Coast AVA’ when we are talking very specific areas - in this case, Santa Barbara County or most likely Sta Rita Hills . . .

Sorry - but I don’t see folks getting on here and talking about boutique Sonoma producers as ‘North Coast AVA’. It’s just a consistent thing unfortunately and one that gives our area less ‘distinction’ than I think it deserves. As usual, just my $.02.

Will have to try to get my hands on both of these and see how they develop over time.

Cheers

I can’t count how many times I have seen the same phenomenon.
It is the wine equivalent of “the bigger they come, the harder they fall”.
With wine, a new-ish winemaker or hidden gem starts getting a lot of buzz.
All the chatter starts a domino effect-the denizens fear they will miss out if they don’t get in early.
So the herd rushes in. Many of the cattle in the herd have no idea what they are buying. They think they do but they don’t.
And then, the disgruntled, underwhelmed, and disillusioned sound off.
I could start a list but it would take hours to complete.
Now before anyone gets insulted, I am not saying that the OP slammed the wine (he did not) or that he did not know what he was buying (how can I know, his notes sound pretty accurate?).
But this was very predictable.
Kelley Fox makes very individualistic wines. They are not suited or intended for the masses.
And the Mirabai is far from KF’s best stuff.
There are consistent crowd pleasers among the Board darlings. Bedrock and Carlisle come to mind. SQN and Saxum too.
This is the second or third KF comparison I’ve seen since BD so I feel compelled to comment. Carry on. Don’t mind me.

Mitch.

We never mind you at all, my friend. And your point is well taken, at least by me. Not sure this OP was being negative whatsoever - just looking at two wines at a single time in the life of the wine.

I know with my wines, for instance, that most show really well on Day 2 - but are always ‘judged’ on first taste/smell and then over the next hour or two. It’s ‘challenging’ to say the least, but it is what it is.

Cheers.

Larry, a bit of thread drift, but your comment raised a question to me: does it seem to you that people are drinking your wines “too soon”, if they are often showing better on day 2? It seems to me the usual condition would be to drink a bottle soon after opening, so I assume most wines are “judged” on the initial/early showing.

As always, thanks for your participation and insight.

I didn’t read this as a negative KF comment from the OP so much as a “these wines are both good but they are not the same”. its an interesting distinction because I think a lot of the same people may buy these wines. at least, I could see them being sold in the same shop very easily.

Larry, you’re correct my intent wasn’t to provide the final word on these labels or areas, but simply to talk about two wines that I opened in the same night. I make no claim of being an unbiased professional taster - my notes are specific to my palate and others will totally disagree (and that’s great!).

Whitcraft does make a lot of PN from Santa Rita Hills but also Los Alamos, Santa Maria Valley, and a bit from SLO. It’s labeled Santa Barbara County. I’m sure there’s a lot of SRH juice in the blend, but it would be hard to say what area dominates. Whitcraft’s SVD’s speak much more strongly of “place”. You should take one for a spin if you see it.

Although the producer doesn’t advertise as “natural” I have heard them talk about low sulfur use, sustainable farming, and a bit of biodynamics. When I taste a good natural wine, I get this purity of fruit, a lively mouthfeel, and less unidentifiable “clutter” in the flavor profile. There was also the slightest tang that got a little stronger on day 2, but not overpowering.

As a former Santa Barbara resident, you won’t catch me painting the Central Coast with a broad stroke

Hi Mitch, not insulted at all. I’ve only tried the Mirabai from KF, but the quality is apparent even at this young age and lower price point (not easy to do). Based on that, I’ll be seeking out some higher end bottles at some point. I hope it was apparent that I liked both wines, but on that particular day, one bottle appealed to my palate more than the other bottle.

I didn’t buy these two wines with the goal of doing a comparative tasting, but since I learn a lot about my own palate by way of comparison, I thought I would share.

I’ve been introduced to many great producers on this board. If my notes encourage someone else to try something new, that’s great, but our palates may not align and that’s the risk of taking highly subjective advice from a stranger on the internet.

Thanks for understanding.
I don’t mean to come across as a KF defender.
A) Kelley does not need my defense.
B) I have my own quiet reservations about the price/quality ratio of the upper tier bottlings-the '18 Red Barn Block costs a Benjamin.
C) I am generally not a huge fan of the wines I have had made from Marsh (the way it is pronounced by the locals) vineyard fruit-though I do very much appreciate what KF does with hers-and have heard nothing but negative scuttle about the brash immaturity of the person, Jim Arterberry Maresh. Being the young heir to a locally coveted and highly esteemed vineyard likely comes at a price. But according to JAM, I am wrong, as he is a “grounded man” and just a “farmer and not a a winemaker”. Arterberry Maresh - About us- people, vineyards, and wines

Mitch, I’m not sure that I follow item C, but there is a Marsh Estate Vineyard in the Yamhill-Carlton AVA, so probably best to stick with Maresh Vineyard to avoid any confusion from others. I know that you are talking about the Maresh Vineyard in this context.

Full disclosure, I’m a club member at Arterberry Maresh. I’ve never met young Jim, but Martha and Steve and have always been more than accommodating and hospitable during our visits. Good peeps.

James

Hey Mitch - I hear your scuttle. The ‘farmer not winemaker’ is my grandpa Jim Maresh describing himself. His last year farming was 2018 but he’s still strong at 94. I hadn’t seen that page. I love making wine but promotion doesn’t feel natural. Hard to take serious and I’d rather troll it. Not really sure what grounded means but as the father of a 1 year old and 3 year old that consume all my time I chose the wrong time to expand to 7,000 cases and now I’m beaten to the ground.

Kelly makes great wines. She is the ideal partner on Maresh vineyard. Et Fille leases one acre of Pommard that I also recommend. Kelly and I like the same vines. We both use Maresh and Weber so it’s nice that we are very different in the winery. She likes stems and I will always be 100% de-stemmed. She bottles earlier and I bottle later. Very similar in the vineyard. I usually pick about a week earlier, she does some biodynamic sprays that I don’t. When Scott Paul shut down some blocks on Maresh moved around but it’s all been figured out and I imagine Kelly will be making Maresh vineyard wines for decades to come.

There is indeed a Marsh estate in Carlton. In 1970 Maresh vineyard was called ‘The Red Hills Vineyard’. All the old Arterberry ‘Maresh’ vineyard bottling’s from the 70s and 80s used that name. My grandpa has suggested I put Maresh Red Hills Vineyard on the label, seems a bit long.

I feel very humbled if not shamed by your gentlemanly response.
Thank you. I apologize for simply spreading manure/rumor.
I hope we get the chance to meet one day.

Thanks for the info. While I have many bottles of Maresh PN from both you and Kelley, I’ve yet to drink them side by side to compare. Plan to rectify that soon. Was thrilled to grab some of your Maresh Chardonnay during a late February visit to the Red Barn.

BTW, my wife and I still discuss how gracious you were to host us for a tasting at your house in February 2015. That was a great visit and tasting.

Hope you and your family are staying healthy and sane.