Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

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Todd F r e n c h
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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#51 Post by Todd F r e n c h » June 9th, 2020, 10:29 am

Kris Patten wrote:
June 6th, 2020, 7:25 pm
Try Bollinger and Charles Heidsieck NV before you jump into a bunch of grower fizz.

Growers are great, but based on your current lineup, may be a bit premature.
Agreed. Growers can be extraordinary and rewarding when 'on', but there is less consistency overall. Get your feet wet with other big house producers, or a super reliable grower like Vilmart, then start to experiment with the growers. Watch the videos posted atop Wine Talk to meet some of those growers - I know I've spent a lot on Champagne recently, as a result.
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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#52 Post by Merrill Lindquist » June 9th, 2020, 10:58 am

J. Schenck wrote:
June 8th, 2020, 11:21 pm
Warren Taranow wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 9:47 am
While you're cursing me, splurge and buy a Tattinger Comte. It will ruin both you and your budget.
i didn't think i liked Champagne until i tried Comte...
This wine accelerated my slide down the slippery slope.... champagne.gif
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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#53 Post by Merrill Lindquist » June 9th, 2020, 11:10 am

3 of my current favorites for every day consumption are Doyard-Mahe Empreinte, Philipponnat, and Pol Roger Brut Reserve. These are in addition to the Delamotte that Dr. Stotter mentioned above.
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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#54 Post by Jim Stewart » June 9th, 2020, 12:51 pm

Bryan Price wrote:
June 6th, 2020, 4:44 pm
My wife and I have started to drink more champagne. It started out as a way for my wife to drink something when I was having beer, but I'm starting to like it a lot too. We've been buying 6-packs of assorted NV bottles from the grocery store, and have been liking Roederer (we've visited there too), Mumm, but haven't found anything we like (for ~$45) as much as Veuve Clicquot. We went to a wine maker dinner for Morlet and loved their family's French champagne, but I assume that bottle was out of my regular price range. I'm really just starting out my exploration of champagne and excited to find out what else is out there in the $30-60 that is as good (or my assumption much better) than Veuve? My wife likes the crisp apple tasting note in Veuve for reference.
No shortage of suggestions from all directions, Bryan, but I'll add another to make it an even half-dozen from me. I perused the Hi-Time Champagne list (spoiled for choices at that store in your price range!) and a favorite caught my eye - Ployez-Jacquemart Extra Brut Rosé Champagne. Less than $50 a bottle and less than half that for a half-bottle which is kind of a rare find and a good way to try it out.
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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#55 Post by brigcampbell » June 9th, 2020, 3:09 pm

Cris Whetstone wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 8:53 am
Veuve is actually ok these days. The regular yellow label NV is just usually over priced since it became popular. The 08 regular vintage yellow label is actually excellent.
I want to comment on this because I think regarding Veuve I tend to agree. The yellow NV isn't a bad wine that's been marketed as a lifestyle product. It's a decent wine that's been marketed as a lifestyle product. [wow.gif]

I never really enjoyed their rose, NV or vintage, but that might just be a "brig thing"

I wouldn't put Veuve in the Caymus category as a spoof.

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#56 Post by J. Schenck » June 9th, 2020, 8:56 pm

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 10:58 am
J. Schenck wrote:
June 8th, 2020, 11:21 pm
Warren Taranow wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 9:47 am
While you're cursing me, splurge and buy a Tattinger Comte. It will ruin both you and your budget.
i didn't think i liked Champagne until i tried Comte...
This wine accelerated my slide down the slippery slope.... champagne.gif
honestly, my wife and I were at a nice restaurant in Paris and they wheeled out a champagne cart and asked if we'd like to start with champagne. in the US i'd probably demur and end up with a aperitif or cocktail, but we're suckers for that kind of gimmick i guess. it was our last night so we asked for two glasses of whatever the sommelier recommended (a risky gambit, to be sure). 2006 Comte. come to think of it, i should get some of those.
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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#57 Post by Otto Forsberg » June 10th, 2020, 3:14 am

R M Kriete wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 8:38 am
I'm a sucker for Champagnes with a bready/yeasty quality. Which with these qualities would be recommended?
Charles Heidsieck
Bollinger LGA and up
Marguet
Lahaye
Selosse
Egly-Ouriet
Boulard

The more you can cellar these, the toastier they tend to become.

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#58 Post by R M Kriete » June 10th, 2020, 11:11 am

Thanks guys champagne.gif

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#59 Post by brigcampbell » June 10th, 2020, 11:22 am

Otto Forsberg wrote:
June 10th, 2020, 3:14 am
R M Kriete wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 8:38 am
I'm a sucker for Champagnes with a bready/yeasty quality. Which with these qualities would be recommended?
Marguet


The more you can cellar these, the toastier they tend to become.
This is an amazing wine for bread... like standing in a rustic European bakery. $95 but worth it for the experience Posted from CellarTracker

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#60 Post by Frank Murray III » June 11th, 2020, 9:00 am

Brig, the 2012 Marguet Les Crayeres is what got me into Marguet back in 2016. That wine is extraordinary. And, I do remember the time we drank the bottle in your TN, as it was from my cellar. Your reference to the 'rye' note that night was brilliant.
  • 2012 Marguet Champagne Grand Cru Extra Brut Les Crayères - France, Champagne, Champagne Grand Cru (4/28/2019)
    Pulled this towards the end of the evening as a palate cleanser and farewell to the meal. Disgorged 09/2017, zero dosage with 72% PN, 28% Chard. I continue to love the Marguet wines. Why? Because in this instance (not all, as some can show the lower dosage more evidently), this bottle of Crayeres drinks perfectly without the lack of dosage being part of the discussion. I poured this blind too, as previously we had Vilmart CdC and Cristal, both that have about 7 g/l. For me, what Benoit Marguet shows is that a wine made without dosage can be equally compelling. The balance on this is terrific, with an imprint of raspberry and black cherry, and an aromatic of rye, which is the term Brig used tasting the wine next to me. This continues to drink super at this stage, too.
Posted from CellarTracker
My best wines for 2020:
2014 Marie Courtin Champagne Efflorescence Extra Brut
2012 Minière F & R Champagne Influence Brut
2008 Rhys Skyline PN SCM
2015 Ulysse Collin Champagne Les Pierrières
2014 Laherte Frères Champagne BdB EB Les Grands Crayeres

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#61 Post by Mattstolz » June 20th, 2020, 5:50 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
June 6th, 2020, 5:08 pm
Gonet Medeville Tradition Brut
Chartogne-Tallet Cuvee St Anne
RL Legras BDB Grand Cru
Paul Bara NV Grand Cru
Vouette Et Sorbee Fidele
Marie Courtin Resonance
Cris Whetstone wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 8:53 am
Veuve is actually ok these days. The regular yellow label NV is just usually over priced since it became popular. The 08 regular vintage yellow label is actually excellent.

Perusing the Hi-Times selection since I know you're local and their selection is a good as any around here, these are a few I would recommend trying. I think you'll find the variety surprising and fun. These are all 'NV'.

Andre Clouet Grand Reserve
Bollinger Special Cuvee(on the high side at $60. You can find it lower sometimes but it's one of my favs.)
Camille Saves Rose
Gaston Chiquet Blanc de Blancs d'Ay
Hebrart Blanc de Blancs
Henri Billiot Reserve(Another fav. I'd start here if you really want that appley thing.)
Henri Goutorbe Brut Prestige
Paul Bara Rose
RH Coutier Brut Tradition

Also, Envoyer gets lots of interesting Champagnes and low prices. That's another good source locally for exploring.
Rory K. wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 11:34 pm
I give a +1 to Delamotte, Hebrart, Tattinger
im curious if the above suggestions were all made specifically for someone who enjoys Veuve, or as good places to start with non-supermarket champagne in general? Im also in the process of trying to taste and educate myself about Champagne but am not necc excited about Veuve.

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#62 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » June 20th, 2020, 6:31 am

My list is simply a list of high quality grower champagne in that price point.

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#63 Post by Rory K. » June 20th, 2020, 8:13 am

Mattstolz wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 5:50 am

im curious if the above suggestions were all made specifically for someone who enjoys Veuve, or as good places to start with non-supermarket champagne in general? Im also in the process of trying to taste and educate myself about Champagne but am not necc excited about Veuve.
Good point, no they were not chosen because they would appeal to a Veuve drinker, just recommendations for Champagne at a reasonable price point that I love.
K i n n e a r

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#64 Post by Cris Whetstone » June 20th, 2020, 9:02 am

My recs were just good Champagnes outside the bigger brands in the price range that were specifically at Hi-Times. The wines I recommend are from a variety of styles.
WetRock

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#65 Post by NED VALOIS » June 20th, 2020, 9:12 am

Kevin Porter wrote:
June 7th, 2020, 5:52 pm
33 posts to get to Deibolt-Vallois? Shame!
And I get $5 for ever bottle sold !! [snort.gif] champagne.gif

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#66 Post by Bryan Price » June 20th, 2020, 4:06 pm

R M Kriete wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 8:38 am
I'm a sucker for Champagnes with a bready/yeasty quality. Which with these qualities would be recommended?
We just cracked a Laurient Perrier and found it had that quality - my wife didn't like it though.
“To alcohol! The cause of...and solution to...all of life's problems.” - Homer Simpson

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#67 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » June 20th, 2020, 4:14 pm

Bryan Price wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 4:06 pm
R M Kriete wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 8:38 am
I'm a sucker for Champagnes with a bready/yeasty quality. Which with these qualities would be recommended?
We just cracked a Laurient Perrier and found it had that quality - my wife didn't like it though.
Your wife doesn’t like Laurent Perrier? That’s like the most standard crowd pleasing champagne. Does she only like sweet wines?

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#68 Post by Frank Murray III » June 20th, 2020, 4:37 pm

Bryan, give the wines in post #38 a try. You may end up liking some/all of these and then you can start a journey into some avenues of stuff that may thrill you. At minimum, you will expand out into some things that you are fortunate to have locally without shipping.
My best wines for 2020:
2014 Marie Courtin Champagne Efflorescence Extra Brut
2012 Minière F & R Champagne Influence Brut
2008 Rhys Skyline PN SCM
2015 Ulysse Collin Champagne Les Pierrières
2014 Laherte Frères Champagne BdB EB Les Grands Crayeres

Kindness matters. Dignity matters. Accountability matters. Respect matters. LEADERSHIP MATTERS!

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#69 Post by M. Taylor » June 20th, 2020, 5:03 pm

At that price point, try Bereche et Fils Brut Reserve
M a r k

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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#70 Post by Brad Baker » June 20th, 2020, 6:19 pm

Mattstolz wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 5:50 am
im curious if the above suggestions were all made specifically for someone who enjoys Veuve, or as good places to start with non-supermarket champagne in general? Im also in the process of trying to taste and educate myself about Champagne but am not necc excited about Veuve.
Matt,

Most of the suggestions given in this thread have absolutely nothing to do with similarity to Veuve or what Bryan has expressed liking so far. In fact, many are about as polar opposite as it can get. This thread is basically a collection of personal favorites of posters. Nothing wrong with that as exploring is how you learn. I thought Moet White Star and Nicolas Feuillatte were good stuff at one point. Then I had Krug which is nothing like either of those and my life changed. Shortly after that, I discovered Rene Geoffroy, Pierre Peters, Vilmart, and Diebolt-Vallois. None of that would have happened if I wouldn't have taken some chances and explored (though I did follow a lot of Tom Stevenson's recommendations at the time). While this thread is a bit like throwing muck against the wall and seeing what sticks, it does have a lot of interesting suggestions. I just hope Bryan takes the time to try a number of different styles of Champagne from large and small producers and some with different amounts of age (both on the lees and post-disgorgement). Hopefully, he learns what he likes and doesn't like and discovers some new favorites.
Brad Baker
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Re: Moving Past Veuve: Initiate Me

#71 Post by Mattstolz » June 21st, 2020, 5:34 am

Brad Baker wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 6:19 pm
Mattstolz wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 5:50 am
im curious if the above suggestions were all made specifically for someone who enjoys Veuve, or as good places to start with non-supermarket champagne in general? Im also in the process of trying to taste and educate myself about Champagne but am not necc excited about Veuve.
Matt,

Most of the suggestions given in this thread have absolutely nothing to do with similarity to Veuve or what Bryan has expressed liking so far. In fact, many are about as polar opposite as it can get. This thread is basically a collection of personal favorites of posters. Nothing wrong with that as exploring is how you learn. I thought Moet White Star and Nicolas Feuillatte were good stuff at one point. Then I had Krug which is nothing like either of those and my life changed. Shortly after that, I discovered Rene Geoffroy, Pierre Peters, Vilmart, and Diebolt-Vallois. None of that would have happened if I wouldn't have taken some chances and explored (though I did follow a lot of Tom Stevenson's recommendations at the time). While this thread is a bit like throwing muck against the wall and seeing what sticks, it does have a lot of interesting suggestions. I just hope Bryan takes the time to try a number of different styles of Champagne from large and small producers and some with different amounts of age (both on the lees and post-disgorgement). Hopefully, he learns what he likes and doesn't like and discovers some new favorites.
Sometimes as someone learning the ropes in champagne that’s kinda what I feel like I’m doing anyways. Personal favorites is a good place to start

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