Best domestic Chardonnay?

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MBerto
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#51 Post by MBerto » June 12th, 2020, 5:09 pm

As I person who does not really like most Oregon chards, I'd put Antica Terra chards in my top 5 domestic.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#52 Post by TGigante » June 12th, 2020, 5:20 pm

Sean_S wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 3:35 pm
M. Dildine wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 3:29 pm
Sean_S wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 3:17 pm


I'm partial to the Peter Martin Ray and Trout Gulch (both local SCM sites near my house) but I need to try the Zephyr.

Let's talk QPR for a second because I love Ceritas and Rhys but not in the QPR Champion Realm:

Best QPR Chardonnay in America:
Cameron Dundee Hills < $20
Goodfellow RR, Dundee Hills just over $20, or the WV just under $20
Vincent: all of em ~$20
Le Petit Paysan: Jack's Chardonnay. 21$ retail, 19$ wine club or case price.

Who else makes a kickass Chablis or White Burg competitor for ~$20

Overall best value to me: Goodfellow Richards Cuvee ~ $45

and just realized I forgot Ladd Cellars and Model Farm. Edited my original post to reflect my brain fart

Sean
I'm a big fan of Le Petit Paysan "Jack's" Chardonnay
Not, sure why I doesn't get more love. Its darn good and at $20 a great value. Had the Sauv Blanc the other night and it was exceptional as well.

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#53 Post by Dan Kravitz » June 12th, 2020, 5:22 pm

I've had about half of the ones mentioned so far.

Among those, Mount Eden is the hands-down winner. I've had about 20 vintages. I've had them at 5 years and at 25 years. I've never had one too old. I've never had one so young that it wasn't already enjoyable.

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#54 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » June 12th, 2020, 6:10 pm

Dan Hammer wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 12:48 pm
With all the recent Walter Scott hype + this thread, I picked up a 2018 Walter Scott Chardonnay La Combe Verte at Grapes the Wine Company in White Plains. Let's see what all the fuss is about.

dh
That’s a killer entry level wine, but you need to check out the Cuvee Anne and Ex Novo to see what the fuss is really about.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#55 Post by jgreco » June 12th, 2020, 6:32 pm

The best four in California are Aubert, Peter Michael, Morlet, and Kistler. People also put Marcassin up there.

For Oregon I like Walter Scott, Antica Terra, and Lingua Franca.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#56 Post by Diane Kessler » June 12th, 2020, 6:52 pm

Rhys and Ceritas make some of the most compelling Chardonnay with a little bit of age.

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#57 Post by Scott Tallman » June 12th, 2020, 7:45 pm

Scott Brunson wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 2:14 pm
Scott Tallman wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 12:29 pm
Scott Brunson wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 11:36 am

Blend?
Gonna throw a bottle into a blind tasting to mess with people when our group can meet again.

And for me, Ceritas.
I hate the over-ripe, over-extracted, over-oaked Chards.
Not blend, Cameron’s estate vineyard next to the winery
But with some Pinot Blanc (and I’ve seen hints of a few Italians too)
In the vineyard, yes. Goes into Giovanni bottling, not into anything else
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#58 Post by Wes Barton » June 12th, 2020, 7:58 pm

Mount Eden for me. Quite a few excellent ones these days from CA and OR. The best single bottle of mature CA Chard I've had was Arcadian. As a great wine at peak maturity, I haven't had many white Burgs that showed better.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#59 Post by Brian Pinci » June 13th, 2020, 8:38 am

Marcassin Marcassin Vineyard
Kongsgaard The Judge
Peter Michael Cuvee Indigene or Point Rouge
Aubert Lauren Estate
Kistler Cuvee Cathleen
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#60 Post by John Morris » June 13th, 2020, 8:47 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 2:40 pm
John Morris wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm
Dave Ramey’s Hyde (and other single-vineyards) deserve more notice.
I cannot add this to my list because I have never tasted it.
They’re widely available.

They are definitely in a more traditional Californian style (not cooler zone, New Wave), but balanced and complex. Not flabby or overoaked or overripe.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#61 Post by Len Stevens » June 13th, 2020, 9:00 am

Some amazing selections thus far...my favorite domestic chard thus far is the '14 Sonoma Coast from Kutch! On a side note, Jamie is super excited by the '17 Trout Gulch being released this Fall. It is my plan to purchase 2 cases.

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#62 Post by David B » June 13th, 2020, 9:02 am

Sean_S wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 3:17 pm
Adam Frisch wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 1:04 pm
The Ceritas ones are all good, but the Ceritas Zephyr vineyard is the best one out of all them, in my opinion.
Best QPR Chardonnay in America:
Cameron Dundee Hills < $20
Goodfellow RR, Dundee Hills just over $20, or the WV just under $20
Vincent: all of em ~$20
Le Petit Paysan: Jack's Chardonnay. 21$ retail, 19$ wine club or case price.

Who else makes a kickass Chablis or White Burg competitor for ~$20

Overall best value to me: Goodfellow Richards Cuvee ~ $45

and just realized I forgot Ladd Cellars and Model Farm. Edited my original post to reflect my brain fart

Sean
I've been finding Calera Central Coast Chardonnay for $15 recently. Definitely overdelivers at that price.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#63 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » June 13th, 2020, 9:07 am

Wes Barton wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 7:58 pm
Mount Eden for me. Quite a few excellent ones these days from CA and OR. The best single bottle of mature CA Chard I've had was Arcadian. As a great wine at peak maturity, I haven't had many white Burgs that showed better.
I’m an idiot for not trying Arcadian. +1 on Mount Eden. Their 2011 absolutely floored me - insanely good.

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#64 Post by Howard Cooper » June 13th, 2020, 12:18 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 8:47 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 2:40 pm
John Morris wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm
Dave Ramey’s Hyde (and other single-vineyards) deserve more notice.
I cannot add this to my list because I have never tasted it.
They’re widely available.

They are definitely in a more traditional Californian style (not cooler zone, New Wave), but balanced and complex. Not flabby or overoaked or overripe.
It is possible that the wine is available somewhere around here but I do not ever remember seeing an offering for it and I really doubt it is widely available around these parts. I really don't go out of my way to find California Chardonnays. Most of the ones I taste are brought to tastings by others. As these people have good palates, I get to taste some good ones and not as many duds (esp. since I retired and no longer attend work happy hours - although I do taste some horrible US Chardonnays at our Country Club wine group). Almost all the Chardonnay I buy is from Burgundy (including Chablis) or Champagne.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#65 Post by Mel Knox » June 13th, 2020, 12:33 pm

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Au Bon Climat. Or did I miss that??
Ramey and ABC just got reviewed nicely by Jancis Robinson. So was the MT Eden Cab.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#66 Post by lleichtman » June 13th, 2020, 1:15 pm

James Lyon wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 5:05 pm
Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 4:06 pm
Rick Allen wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 2:35 pm

There may be a little Pinot Blanc in the Chardonnay, but not very much, if any. Most of the Pinot Blanc gets thrown in with the Italian varietals that go into Guiliano.

BTW, both Clos Electrique and X Novo are vineyards planted in multiple clones and selections that are expected to ripen differently but be harvested together.
As is the Chardonnay from Whistling Ridge that produces the Richard’s.
Yeah, Rick A. always beats me to it. I was fairly certain that Clos Electrique was a blend of multiple clones and selections like X Novo (and Whistling Ridge via Marcus G.). Would multiple clones and selections be considered a Massale?

Speaking of Mo, we enjoyed a 2016 Ayoub Chardonnay last weekend. Definitely amped up on the second night.

Moe does make delicious wines and his Chardonnays are as good as his Pinots.


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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#67 Post by Adam Frisch » June 13th, 2020, 3:03 pm

Sean_S wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 3:17 pm

I'm partial to the Peter Martin Ray and Trout Gulch (both local SCM sites near my house) but I need to try the Zephyr.

Let's talk QPR for a second because I love Ceritas and Rhys but not in the QPR Champion Realm:
Agreed - they are pretty pricey.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#68 Post by John Morris » June 13th, 2020, 3:04 pm

Mel Knox wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 12:33 pm
I am surprised nobody has mentioned Au Bon Climat. Or did I miss that??
Ramey and ABC just got reviewed nicely by Jancis Robinson. So was the MT Eden Cab.
Good point! The basic ABCs are really nice wines and amazing values.

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#69 Post by Joe Mendez » June 13th, 2020, 5:25 pm

Vice Versa Platt Chard
Aubert Lauren

Walter Scott X Novo
Lingua Franca

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#70 Post by T Welch » June 13th, 2020, 5:29 pm

Diane Kessler wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 6:52 pm
Rhys and Ceritas make some of the most compelling Chardonnay with a little bit of age.
A 2010 Rhys Alpine Chardonnay last night was fantastic.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#71 Post by Mel Knox » June 13th, 2020, 10:09 pm

John,

They are all my friends. I just brought up the un-mentioned
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#72 Post by rgallagher » June 13th, 2020, 11:29 pm

Hanzell is really solid. At least in the conversation...
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#73 Post by Steve Crawford » June 14th, 2020, 6:03 pm

Adam Frisch wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 3:03 pm
Sean_S wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 3:17 pm

I'm partial to the Peter Martin Ray and Trout Gulch (both local SCM sites near my house) but I need to try the Zephyr.

Let's talk QPR for a second because I love Ceritas and Rhys but not in the QPR Champion Realm:
Agreed - they are pretty pricey.
how much are rhys chards running these days?

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#74 Post by Keith Levenberg » June 14th, 2020, 6:14 pm

Bill Sweeney wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 6:09 am
A few comments in the thread about aging Oregon chards made me wonder which chards are contenders for ‘best’ produced in this country. If someone was willing to gift you a bottle of any domestic Chardonnay you want, which one would you choose?QPR should not be a consideration.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#75 Post by Adam Frisch » June 14th, 2020, 7:01 pm

Steve Crawford wrote:
June 14th, 2020, 6:03 pm
how much are rhys chards running these days?
Sorry, I was referencing only the Ceritas prices in my answer. I have never tried Rhys, but would like to.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#76 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 14th, 2020, 7:05 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm
Dave Ramey’s Hyde (and other single-vineyards) deserve more notice.
[winner.gif] [winner.gif] [winner.gif]
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#77 Post by B. Buzzini » June 14th, 2020, 7:57 pm

It’s Rombauer...duh!
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#78 Post by R. Somerville » June 15th, 2020, 3:03 pm

Has anyone tried Girgich Hills recently?

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#79 Post by williamwhelan » June 15th, 2020, 3:40 pm

So many incredible examples out there these days. Handful of my preferences right now:

Evening Land Summum
Ceritas Trout Gulch
Arnot-Roberts Watson Ranch
Forman Star Vineyard
Enfield Heron Lake
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#80 Post by Ben M a n d l e r » June 15th, 2020, 3:43 pm

HdV. I don’t think I’ve seen them mentioned yet but consistently one of my favorite Chardonnays period. Other people using Hyde fruit have also made excellent wines of course. Also, I think ignoring QPR makes no sense.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#81 Post by Jeff_M. » June 15th, 2020, 4:02 pm

R. Somerville wrote:
June 15th, 2020, 3:03 pm
Has anyone tried Girgich Hills recently?
Had the regular estate chardonnay over the weekend, 2016 vintage. Drinking very nice!
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#82 Post by Dan Kravitz » June 15th, 2020, 4:26 pm

Ben M a n d l e r wrote:
June 15th, 2020, 3:43 pm
HdV. I don’t think I’ve seen them mentioned yet but consistently one of my favorite Chardonnays period. Other people using Hyde fruit have also made excellent wines of course. Also, I think ignoring QPR makes no sense.
Ignoring QPR makes complete sense, because the OP asked for the best domestic Chardonnay. Did not mention price. As of my last post, I had tried about half of these, with a great many I would love to try but have not because of capacity limits to the liver and the wallet.

Can't remember if Mayacamas has been mentioned yet. As with Mount Eden, I've had about 20 vintages, from 5 - 25 years of age. No, overall not as good as Mount Eden, but YMWV (your mileage will vary) and good enough to belong in the conversation. As different in style from Mount Eden as you can get. Other Santa Cruz Mountain Chardonnays have some affinity with Mount Eden. I've never had a Chardonnay that much resembled Mayacamas.

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#83 Post by R. Somerville » June 16th, 2020, 6:13 am

Jeff_M. wrote:
June 15th, 2020, 4:02 pm
R. Somerville wrote:
June 15th, 2020, 3:03 pm
Has anyone tried Girgich Hills recently?
Had the regular estate chardonnay over the weekend, 2016 vintage. Drinking very nice!
Thanks Jeff - haven't drunk that wonderful chardonnay since 1985 when I was over in California! It was expensive then even more so now I'm sure.

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#84 Post by Jeff_M. » June 16th, 2020, 6:47 am

R. Somerville wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 6:13 am
Jeff_M. wrote:
June 15th, 2020, 4:02 pm
R. Somerville wrote:
June 15th, 2020, 3:03 pm
Has anyone tried Girgich Hills recently?
Had the regular estate chardonnay over the weekend, 2016 vintage. Drinking very nice!
Thanks Jeff - haven't drunk that wonderful chardonnay since 1985 when I was over in California! It was expensive then even more so now I'm sure.
My father in law just got a half case on wine access with a sign up bonus offer and AMEX offer stacked for $22 a bottle. That's where a lot of folks are figuring out how to get nice discounts from online stores stacking store sale codes/discounts with credit card offers.

We did a tasting at Grgich last September and the wines are very good.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#85 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » June 16th, 2020, 6:52 am

John Morris wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm
Dave Ramey’s Hyde (and other single-vineyards) deserve more notice.
David's Chardonnays are truly built like White Burgundy. They take a few years to come around and aren't necessarily as enjoyable out of the gate IMHO. I think that's why people don't talk about them as much. They need time.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#86 Post by Brian R Bachman » June 16th, 2020, 10:11 am

I've had a lot of Marcassin Marcassin, Aubert, and Kistler over the past decades. Today I only buy Ceritas, Rhys and Kutch chardonnay. Kutch is the QPR winner in my book. I love these wines. Rhys does age beautifully.

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#87 Post by Troy Stark » June 16th, 2020, 1:59 pm

Walter Scott
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#88 Post by Troy Stark » June 16th, 2020, 2:04 pm

MBerto wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 5:09 pm
As I person who does not really like most Oregon chards, I'd put Antica Terra chards in my top 5 domestic.
Matt. Buddy. You need to taste it side by side with some other domestic chards. It's hot and oaky.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#89 Post by Charlie Carnes » June 16th, 2020, 2:09 pm

Great discussion, for me, and they are all fairly new discoveries, but easily: Kutch Trout Gulch, Walter Scott Seven Springs, Walter Scott X Novo, and Goodfellow Richard's. These are all world class Chards!
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#90 Post by Charlie Carnes » June 16th, 2020, 2:11 pm

Keith Levenberg wrote:
June 14th, 2020, 6:14 pm
Bill Sweeney wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 6:09 am
A few comments in the thread about aging Oregon chards made me wonder which chards are contenders for ‘best’ produced in this country. If someone was willing to gift you a bottle of any domestic Chardonnay you want, which one would you choose?QPR should not be a consideration.
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I have never seen one. I need to try one of these.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#91 Post by Sebastian C. » June 16th, 2020, 2:35 pm

From what I have tasted; Rhys, Littorai and Aubert.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#92 Post by Dan Kravitz » June 16th, 2020, 3:33 pm

I've had at least half a dozen vintages of Grgich Hills, from 5 to probably about 15 years of age. Good wine in a style that I like, but not IMO close to 'top 10' territory for CA Chard. I mentioned Mayacamas, also that I've never had another Chardonnay like it. Well, Grgich probably comes as close as any in style, but for me it's simply not as good, nowhere near as good. Now at $22, I'd be willing to give it another try. In the ~$35 - 40 range I normally see, it's an easy pass for me.

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#93 Post by Will F » June 16th, 2020, 3:33 pm

Another vote for Walter Scott
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#94 Post by R. Somerville » June 16th, 2020, 3:49 pm

Jeff_M. wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 6:47 am
R. Somerville wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 6:13 am
Jeff_M. wrote:
June 15th, 2020, 4:02 pm


Had the regular estate chardonnay over the weekend, 2016 vintage. Drinking very nice!
Thanks Jeff - haven't drunk that wonderful chardonnay since 1985 when I was over in California! It was expensive then even more so now I'm sure.
My father in law just got a half case on wine access with a sign up bonus offer and AMEX offer stacked for $22 a bottle. That's where a lot of folks are figuring out how to get nice discounts from online stores stacking store sale codes/discounts with credit card offers.

We did a tasting at Grgich last September and the wines are very good.
That's great way of making discount points work. Last time I looked over here it was nearly £50.00 a bottle!

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#95 Post by Blake Brown » June 17th, 2020, 8:48 am

Here's a vote for at least one. As the notes reflect, this was tasted in a recent blind wine event along with other wines:

2017 RHYS HORSESHOE VINEYARD SANTA VRUZ MOUNTAINS CHARDONNAY- the Provost was the antithesis of the Marguet and this is the antithesis of the Marcassin; it has elegance and finesse and easily glides over the palate leaving a sense of calmness while delivering pleasantries all the way along to the back end; the oak in this wine is already fully integrated in its youthful state and bright acidity prevails while nice citrus notes are expressed in the form of lemon and lime along with green apple, mild creme brûlée and vanilla; it’s medium bodied and has amazing balance, again at this early state in life. Wente, Hyde and Mount Eden clones were used. As with the 2 aforementioned champagnes, our host selected perfect pairings for a blind format.
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#96 Post by Len Stevens » June 17th, 2020, 9:59 am

Charlie Carnes wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 2:09 pm
Great discussion, for me, and they are all fairly new discoveries, but easily: Kutch Trout Gulch, Walter Scott Seven Springs, Walter Scott X Novo, and Goodfellow Richard's. These are all world class Chards!
Envious and curious how you were lucky enough to try Jamie's Trouut Gulch? As I've stated on here a few times, his '14 Sonoma Coast is my favorite Chard thus far and his debut '17 Trout Gulch is being released Sep 5th...he has spoken very highly of it and he is usually a modest man.

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#97 Post by J.Vizuete » June 17th, 2020, 10:21 am

Len Stevens wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 9:59 am
Charlie Carnes wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 2:09 pm
Great discussion, for me, and they are all fairly new discoveries, but easily: Kutch Trout Gulch, Walter Scott Seven Springs, Walter Scott X Novo, and Goodfellow Richard's. These are all world class Chards!
Envious and curious how you were lucky enough to try Jamie's Trouut Gulch? As I've stated on here a few times, his '14 Sonoma Coast is my favorite Chard thus far and his debut '17 Trout Gulch is being released Sep 5th...he has spoken very highly of it and he is usually a modest man.
2017 Trout Gulch was released last September. I have opened one of my 3 bottles. Eager to try more Kutch chards, and yes, it falls squarely in the vein of leaner, acid driven, low oak influenced domestic Chards (Ceritas, Arnot Roberts, Liquid farm, etc). Of these, I've tasted Ceritas and Liquid farm back vintages with some development and both have the capability for great aging!
John
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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#98 Post by Len Stevens » June 17th, 2020, 10:42 am

J.Vizuete wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 10:21 am
Len Stevens wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 9:59 am
Charlie Carnes wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 2:09 pm
Great discussion, for me, and they are all fairly new discoveries, but easily: Kutch Trout Gulch, Walter Scott Seven Springs, Walter Scott X Novo, and Goodfellow Richard's. These are all world class Chards!
Envious and curious how you were lucky enough to try Jamie's Trouut Gulch? As I've stated on here a few times, his '14 Sonoma Coast is my favorite Chard thus far and his debut '17 Trout Gulch is being released Sep 5th...he has spoken very highly of it and he is usually a modest man.
2017 Trout Gulch was released last September. I have opened one of my 3 bottles. Eager to try more Kutch chards, and yes, it falls squarely in the vein of leaner, acid driven, low oak influenced domestic Chards (Ceritas, Arnot Roberts, Liquid farm, etc). Of these, I've tasted Ceritas and Liquid farm back vintages with some development and both have the capability for great aging!
Thanks J, my mistake, it's the 18 coming out this Sep. I just ordered from Liquid Farm last week and have been wanting to try Ceritas!

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#99 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 17th, 2020, 11:24 am

Brent C l a y t o n wrote:
June 16th, 2020, 6:52 am
John Morris wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 2:19 pm
Dave Ramey’s Hyde (and other single-vineyards) deserve more notice.
David's Chardonnays are truly built like White Burgundy. They take a few years to come around and aren't necessarily as enjoyable out of the gate IMHO. I think that's why people don't talk about them as much. They need time.
That's why you have to also buy the Sonoma Coast Chardonnay (now labeled as Fort Ross-Seaview).
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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Re: Best domestic Chardonnay?

#100 Post by Anthony C » June 18th, 2020, 3:05 pm

I'm looking forward to trying a bunch of these.

I would throw Montelena in but I have to admit I haven't tried most of the chards mentioned earlier in this thread. We tend to like the more French style chards.
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