1865 Lafite

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JonathanG
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1865 Lafite

#1 Post by JonathanG » July 3rd, 2020, 8:44 pm

K&L has an 1865 Lafite at auction now, current price $4k. Odds this is actually authentic? It was seemingly recorked by Lafite several years ago.
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J. Rock
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#2 Post by J. Rock » July 4th, 2020, 8:24 am

Do you think there's a way to verify with the Chateau whether this bottle was actually recorked there/
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#3 Post by m. ristev » July 4th, 2020, 8:29 am

it has to be real, come on, it comes from the cellar of "a prominent executive..."
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#4 Post by Glenn P » July 5th, 2020, 6:51 pm

I won a 1900 Margaux at a wine and food weekend in 1998. It had allegedly been recorked at the chateau. Pontallier and his assistant open the bottle, taste it, and then re cork and capsule with a new label that was embossed with “recondition aux chateau” on the label. It was refilled with a similar vintage from their cellar.
We opened it New Years Eve 2000. Wonderful for 2 1/2 hours and then began to fade. I still have the bottle.
Broadbent , while a great great man was duped in the Kirniawan fiasco. I’d get someone to authenticate it before buying!
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Anton D
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#5 Post by Anton D » July 6th, 2020, 12:14 pm

I am looking forward to Francois' tasting notes.
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Neal.Mollen
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#6 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 6th, 2020, 12:48 pm

Anton D wrote:
July 6th, 2020, 12:14 pm
I am looking forward to Francois' tasting notes.
He hasn't opened his case
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Brent C l a y t o n
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#7 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » July 6th, 2020, 1:41 pm

Did Maureen Downey check it?
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#8 Post by Tom Reddick » July 6th, 2020, 2:02 pm

In the 1970s, there were a number of US collectors- many of them in Texas- who bought significant quantities of pre-phylloxera Lafite from various London auction sales, including the famous Glamis Castle auctions. Lafite did a US tour a few years later, going around the country to recork and recondition bottles for collectors. They had a nice long stop in Texas during that run, and they brought with them many library wines- including old vintages like this- to do the topping off on bottles that were checked and found to be sound.

Any Bordeaux this old is a rarity worthy of questioning- but when it comes to the late 19th Century, Lafite is the bottling you are most likely to find from a US cellar because such a concentration of them came to the US in the manner I described above at a given point in time.

If anyone is interested in bidding, I would call and ask for provenance. Given the reputation of the collectors who brought a lot of these bottles stateside, that provenance should be proudly advertised. Also ask when the bottle was recorked and if it was done when Lafite-Rothschild did their America tour. None of this is a guarantee- but if you can establish that this bottle was in one of those well-regarded cellars and recorked here, that is very good news.
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#9 Post by Mel Knox » July 7th, 2020, 8:42 am

There was a story about a local collector here named Haskell Norman. He was invited by Hardy Rodenstock to a tasting of the 1865 Lafite. Everyone who came raved about it until they got to Haskell, who said, I've had this wine 12 times and this bottle is completely different. Sadly Haskell is not around to help out.
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#10 Post by Markus S » July 7th, 2020, 8:59 am

Glenn P wrote:
July 5th, 2020, 6:51 pm
... It was refilled with a similar vintage from their cellar....
A "similar" or the "same"? It makes a difference, because if filled with a "similar" wine, could be classified as a NV if not from the same year.
$ _ € ® e . k @

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Re: 1865 Lafite

#11 Post by Markus S » July 7th, 2020, 9:02 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
July 6th, 2020, 12:48 pm
Anton D wrote:
July 6th, 2020, 12:14 pm
I am looking forward to Francois' tasting notes.
He hasn't opened his case
Still too young.
$ _ € ® e . k @

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Re: 1865 Lafite

#12 Post by Dave McIsaac » July 7th, 2020, 9:34 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
July 6th, 2020, 12:48 pm
Anton D wrote:
July 6th, 2020, 12:14 pm
I am looking forward to Francois' tasting notes.
He hasn't opened his case
He's tasting through his 1867s........more approachable young......
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#13 Post by Glenn P » July 8th, 2020, 6:17 pm

The 1900 Margaux was fill with the same vintage!
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#14 Post by Glenn P » July 8th, 2020, 6:19 pm

Didn’t Reidel do an HR collection for a while?
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#15 Post by p. raghib » July 8th, 2020, 6:25 pm

Markus S wrote:
July 7th, 2020, 8:59 am
Glenn P wrote:
July 5th, 2020, 6:51 pm
... It was refilled with a similar vintage from their cellar....
A "similar" or the "same"? It makes a difference, because if filled with a "similar" wine, could be classified as a NV if not from the same year.
Similar.

If you had a case of old wine, you used to end up,with 10-11btls as they would use your wine and 1-2btls would be sacrificed for the remaining btls.

If they were using their wine, it was filled with a vintage that had similar characteristics. But may not be the same vintage.
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Ed Steinway
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#16 Post by Ed Steinway » July 8th, 2020, 6:32 pm

A few minutes left and 40 bids. Lots of interest.

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Re: 1865 Lafite

#17 Post by etomasi » July 8th, 2020, 11:14 pm

Not sure of the final price, but when I looked it was north of $15k. Hope its real and good!
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#18 Post by J. Rock » July 9th, 2020, 7:48 am

It went for $17,500.00.
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Re: 1865 Lafite

#19 Post by J a y H a c k » July 9th, 2020, 8:07 pm

J. Rock wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 7:48 am
It went for $17,500.00.
Rats. I was willing to go to $16,500, but that last increment killed me.
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