Help me get into Bordeaux

Friends,

I have been steering away from Bordeaux for the short amount of time I have been in this hobby (~6 months if you don’t know me); you know, the Chateaus, the grandeur, the snotty image; the fact that I couldn’t really wrap my head around their classification and appellation system, in short: I never got the feeling Bordeaux was calling me, so I kept away.

But, with the renewed lockdown in Melbourne - minimum of 6 weeks, likely longer (!) - and the discovery that my birthday year (1990) is one of Bordeaux’s best vintages of the last half-century, I decided to call bullshit on my preconceptions and do some good ol’ wine nerding. That’s what we do best, don’t we?

Hence-wise I started reading the The World Atlas of Wine’s Bordeaux section and did some research on this forum’s past threads. Now, I gained some basic understanding of left/right bank, the Haut-Medoc classification of 1855, and the modern rise of Pomerol and St Emilion. At the same time, I need help in grasping how the QPR works in the region, i.e. the introductory value plays, the optimal drinking ages, and what is common knowledge here.

I forgot to mention that I gravitate more towards lighter reds like Pinot Noir and Nebbiolo, and wonder how I should approach the region with my tastes in mind.

That said, to make things easier I have unanswered some questions I’d like to ask you:

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1. What vintages and producers should I look for as introduction in the region (budget $50)? I already noted down: Cantemerle, Sociando Mallet, Chasse Spleen, Chateau La Vieille Cure, any more suggestions appreciated.

2. Are second wines ever an option or should I stick to the grand vins? I don’t think I have ever seen a second vin mentioned on this board.

3. In terms of classified growths, I tend to hear a lot about 5me, 2me, and 1me. Does this reflect a quality jump from 5th to 2th that makes them better QPR or I’m just not looking close enough?

4. What vintages should I be looking for? I can find some 2015, 2009, 2010, and older on auction. I guess this depends on vintage and producer, but is there a bottle age ballpark for consumption?

5. What about whites in the region? I have only noted Clos Floridene from my research but I heard the whites are on the upswing.

6. I read that the vertical tasting is supposedly typical of Bordeaux since most Chateau produce only one wine. How far apart should the vintages be in say a three-way vertical? I wonder if going too far back would cover the vintage markers and show too much of tertiary aromas making it difficult to compare apples with apples.
   
   
   As always, thanks for helping, you are the best source of wine wisdom on earth

Welcome to Bordeaux! I could not imagine wine appreciation without a finely aged Bordeaux!

You will get tons of posts and pieces of advice, I’ll tackle two of your related, entry point questions. You can find a lot of high quality Bordeaux for your budget of $50. If you saw the 2019 futures prices, which were similar to 2014, you could even snag Classified Growths for that price, which is amazing if you think about it.

To really appreciate Bordeaux, however, I think you need to find some wines with some maturity on them. I am a huge fan of Cantemerle, Chasse Spleen and Sociando. La Vieille Cure is a modern concoction, I avoid it. Others might like it. You can regularly find Cantemerle, Chasse Spleen and Sociando with some age on them for close to your budget. Look for 2009 and 2010, and 2005 and 2014. Would be awesome if you could find some 2000. I recently grabbed 2000 Cantemerle for $45 plus buyer’s vig. The 2009 Cantemerle is showing really well right now, it being a riper, more early maturing vintage for some wines.

When you are ready to plop sown some coin for a 1990, start a separate thread. It’s a strong vintage and I bet, when you post that thread, you will find some folks that have recently popped some 1990s worth recommending. It’s a fairly popular, easy to find vintage at the auction houses and some specialty retailers.

Spend some time reading on Bordeaux. It’s far less complicated than other esteemed regions like Burgundy. If you stick to the classic wines, it’s also fairly hard to miss. Wines like Leoville Barton, Montrose, Lalande, Haut Bailly, Pichon Baron, Vieux Chateau Certan, et al, almost always hit, and in quality vintages, are almost “no-brainers”.

St Emilion is a minefield. I avoid it, generally, like the plague. They are mostly modern confections these days, no longer really resembling Bordeaux. Ripe merlot in the hands of modernist consultants, no bueno.

Good luck, and post what you drink!

Other wines to consider at low prices:

Lanessan
Capbern
Siran
Lillian Ladouys

The 2009 Meyney is drinking well and is findable in your price range.
https://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1094238

Hey Jan!

I agree with Robert, if you really want to appreciate Bordeaux, the beauty of them often is in the aged wines. Not that the new wines cant be great too, but they often are just burly and grumpy and very tannic when theyre young. also, the style has shifted a lot (and hopefully is swinging back a little bit) since the 90s to more modern wines with higher alcs. one of the things thats crazy about bordeaux is sometimes even the “off vintages” can age pretty well. I opened an 83 Cantemerle a few months ago (from a 375 bottle even!) and it was incredibly enjoyable.

if you gravitate towards lighter reds, the “blockbuster” years might not be where its at for you. I like the wines from “cool” or “classic” years like 08 more than the banner years like 15. the good ones are fresher with lower ABVs in those years.

Mark mentioned this, but the 1855 classification at this point I think is sometimes more important for people writing a test on wine than it is as always a quality indicator. especially after you get past the 1st growths. some 5th growths are making their best wines ever, and some 2nd growths are syrupy messes.

as for second wines, theres a couple that Ive gotten through the years, but its more the exception than the rule. id rather have a wine from a lower classified chateau that they put their best grapes into than the one that gets the grapes they sorted out from a grand vin.

That was a very interesting read, Howard. Ticked all boxes: informational, but ignited with spicy drama firing from all sides.

Thanks Robert, I love how you break it down in layman’s terms. And we don’t want no overripe merlot, oh no.

I had heard of Lanessan (of which I can find very old vintages on auction, I see a 1982 and 1985, too old or still good?) but not of the others: added!

No 2009 Meyney available in Melbourne atm, but will keep my eyes open, price definitely up my alley.

Hey Robert, that’s pretty good to hear, means I can go dig up some undervalued vintages and have them align to my palate. Re: Cantemerle, one of the take aways I get from reading about Bordeaux on this forum is: get some Cantemerle. It is probably where I’ll try to start things off.

Welcome to the club. You have some nice tips here already and I am sure more to come. Rumor as it, www.thewinecellarinsider.com is a decent Bordeaux resource. You should peruse the site if you want to learn about the region.

I realize your city is under a lockdown, but at some point when it is loosened, and presumably if you still have interest in the wine region, consider finding a local tasting group. Bordeaux enthusiasts should be one of the easiest regions to find interested tasters to assemble anywhere in the world. (I’ve enjoyed dinners in various cities with some of the commentators on this thread, even though I live no where near them). If you are fortunate enough to find a group that meets consistently, you can explore the region thoughtfully, comparing wines - especially in the vertical you mention - is very instructive. Beyond the offline planning board on here, and Jeff’s website, there is also a website for Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts, which some of us also cross post on.

If you have a good retailer near you I would take a flyer on some of the older (circa 2000) bottles from lesser known chateau / appellations recommended by the retailer. In the us these bottles can be found for $20-40. Jeff’s site is great for learning about these lesser known chateau and his tasting notes are pretty transparent.

I agree with a lot of what has been said here ( although I don’t avoid St Emilion as much as Robert). A distinctly important thing is to buy some older bottles and see how they go over. You do not want to start buying on the promise that your cellar will someday be filled with wonderful aged Bordeaux only to find out in 20 or 30 years that you don’t actually love aged Bordeaux.

Try some now because it is not for everyone.

this is a good point. its definitely worth the aged wine premium if it saves you buying and aging a whole bunch of wine youre not a fan of.

Jan, Jeff is a wonderful resource on Bordeaux and his web site is fabulous. Do note that Jeff’s palate leans very strongly (to the point of tipping over) in his love for more modern styles of Bordeaux.

Wine is no fun without spicy drama firing from all sides. Wine at the level of people on this board is all about passion. Even among winemakers - winemakers will tell you about the best way to grow grapes and make wine. Only, after you listen to them, you find that five different winemakers will tell you six different ways. Who is right? In my experience, the ones with the most passion.

Until you know what you like, it is a good idea to buy wines in different camps and see (1) which YOU like better now and (2) which YOU like better with age.

Then, when you get done with all this Bordeaux nonsense (and I like Bordeaux a lot), you will realize that what you really want is Burgundy. It is like double jeopardy, where all the prizes double as does the penalty for a wrong answer.

There is a theory about buying second label wines from Bordeaux. When the economy is down a bit and there have been abundant crops–we have seen at least six good years in a row–
many top chateaux put some very good wine into the second label so the price of their top wine doesn’t take a nose dive. So this could be a very good year to look at second label wines.

I buy very few seconds, but I do like La Gravette de Certan. La Dame de Montrose, too. Both worth the fare.

Clos du Marquis is another worthwhile selection.

Great call, Clos du Marquis was one of my first a-ha wines in early wine appreciation years.

I would also suggest that you shouldn’t be afraid to try Cru Bourgeois wines, the prices are not inflated by reputation and they don’t require the same amount of aging as grander bottles. Haul Medoc is a good place to start, I regularly buy the following in good vintages like 2009, 10, 14, 15, 16 and pull the corks from 6 years onwards. Because they are not expensive you can open two or three together and compare and contrast.
Caronne St Gemme
Senejac
Cambon la Pelouse
Citran
Larose-Trintaudon
Malleret
St Paul
Verdignan
And of course Lanessan