WA 100/100 and the price of 2016 Sandrone Barolo le Vigne

I have recorded the daily average price, as seen on “Wine Searcher”, for the 2016 Sandrone Barolo le Vigne price, right after the WA 100/100 Published on July 23,2020. (I have kept the screen copies. Prices in Euro.)

July 23 - 97 Euro
July 24 - 106 Euro
July 27 - 144 Euro
July 28 - 157 Euro
July 29 - 171 Euro
July 30 - 189 Euro
July 31 - 209 Euro
Aug 5 - 215 Euro
Today Aug 6 - 198 Euro

Any guess what’s next ? :relaxed:

Thanks for sharing the data! It’s incredible to see how quickly the price skyrockets. I dread when WA/WS give 99/100 point scores to a wine I like. It means in many cases I will never be able to buy it again for a reasonable price.

Case in point, 7-8 years ago, I bought the 1986 Ygay blanco in an auction for $45 (I was the only bidder on the lot.) Then WA gives the wine 100 points and now the same wine is $500.

The part of Ygay Blanco 86 is not correct, as this batch of the Reserva Especial 86 was released at this price. A fact that is mentioned in the tasting note of WA’s Guttierrez. So the price already was where it is before WA published the 100 points score & note. He writes in his tasting note:

Yes, I’m afraid, the price quoted here [>500] seems to be correct (but not adequate), but this otherworldly white 1986 has been priced in the stratosphere. Unfortunately, the speculative price tag makes me very angry, but price does not affect the score. The wine is simply stunning. The only issue here is the price tag, to which I can only say that when I went to taste the wine, I also took the opportunity to cancel an order I had previously put in for one case of this wine. At this price, I won’t be buying. What a shame.

If you really bought the same wine from the same batch (bottled end of January 2014, so 6 years ago), congrats to the 45 dollars price tag. Maybe it’s another wine you have (some of the 1992 release?).

Anyway, the impact perfect WA scores have on wine prices and availability are impressive (and to be fair, annoying).

The flip side of this of course is when some typically well regarded wine gets a low score, and the trade gets whacked on their holdings, and has to absorb a big hit. I seem to remember a long time ago the 1997 Sassicaia getting 87 pts or some thing from a big critic, and dropping a $100 in price pretty fast. A senior guy at my (then) employer served cases of the stuff for a team party we had. I really liked it! I’m sure he picked them all up for pretty cheap.

Prior to the Monica Larner note, a retailer told me that his clients were all buying Aleste per the Vinous relative ranking. And then after the Monica Larner note, which is particularly persuasive, Le Vigne went crazy…

Monica Larner note:
I absolutely adore this wine on every emotional and intellectual level. I can still taste it today, weeks after my first sampling. The Luciano Sandrone 2016 Barolo Le Vigne is a stirring and profound expression that pulls on your heartstrings. I found it to be unforgettable, quite literally, inspiring one of those celebrated “wow” moments that we wine lovers so desperately seek in bottle after bottle. Le Vigne is a clever blend of fruit from Baudana in Serralunga d’Alba (offering the power), Villero in Castiglione Falletto (shaping the precision), Vignane in Barolo (adding to the purity of the aromas) and Merli in Novello (that helps to flesh out the fruit). This intersection of various vineyards spanning the appellation creates a pyramid of perfection and beauty. The wine shows large construction, but that fruit weight is balanced against the vivid cherry, spice, aniseed and campfire ash that gently lift from the bouquet.

A very compelling note!

Larner really does a good job. The article was very, very informative but also her tasting notes show a great work ethic… whether you like/agree with her scores or not, she does the most complete tasting notes and you get the best sense of what you will find in the bottle.

Here an example of the Vajra Ravera 2016 with Larner with the best note and as usually Jancis Robinson (here Walter Speller) being by far the weakest note.

Wine Advocate (Larner)
The 2016 Barolo Ravera is the most angular, powerful and vertical of the various Baroli presented by G.D. Vajra. The optimal growing conditions of this classic vintage contribute to the wine’s vertical lift and pronounced depth. The Ravera cru (that spans the comuni of Novello and Barolo) is characterized by Toronian-era marl with clay and sandstone at 320 to 340 meters above sea level. That’s the ideal spot for wines that show both power and elegance. The tannins are sweeter on this wine, but the fiber is tight and firm. Red and purple fruits with licorice, tar and white truffle are folded neatly within. Some 6,000 bottles are hitting the market now.

This is a terrific offering from G.D Vajra, with innovative and clever wines ranging from the classic Barolo Bricco delle Viole to the informal Langhe Nebbiolo Claré J.C. With a catchy rap song singing its praises (google “Il Primo - Nebbiolo ft. LFT and Toro”), G.D. Vajra is one of the most exciting estates to watch today. Congratulations on these gorgeous wines.

Vinous (Galloni)
The 2016 Barolo Ravera is tough as nails today, but it has striking inner sweetness and remarkable persistence. Even so, readers will have to exercise a great deal of patience, as the 2016 is not likely to offer much in the way of pleasure for a number of years. Bright red cherry, mint, white pepper, blood orange and dried flowers give the 2016 brilliant top notes to match its finely sculpted feel. Veins of acidy and tannin add razor-sharp precision throughout. I can’t wait to taste this in another few years’ time.

Suckling (Suckling)
The boldest of the G.D. Vajra crus. The nose has very intense, rich and ripe darker cherries with a savory, sanguine edge. The palate has layer upon layer of rich dark berries and concentrated, quite rich tannins that carry plenty of brambly dark-cherry flavor. So keenly defined, too. Impressive weight. Try from 2024.

Jancis Robinson (Speller)
Novello. Tasted blind. Mid ruby with orange tinges. Impressive, minerally nose with subdued cherry fruit underneath. Hint of liquorice. Gorgeous succulent fruit with gripping but ripe tannins. Closes up on the finish and needs more bottle age. (WS)

Yea no kidding, an outstanding note in how it conveys detail plus emotion. Compelling.

I have not really followed her and tried to figure out here palate preferences, but do see her notes on many Italian wines.

Where is she on the spectrum, John - taste spectrum.

How much of the higher prices on 2016 Sandrone will be a self fulfilling prophesy based on all the posts about 2016 Le Vigne pricing on Wineberserkers? I don’t think I’ve ever seen that much excitement for Sandrone before on here…

Keep in mind it hasn’t arrived physically as far as I know in many locations. Not everywhere sells pre-arrival. I bought 2 bottles from a NYC shop to try and I think it arrives in a few weeks for them.

Historically Sandrone has been ‘underpriced’ relative to the scores, I presume because it has a modernist image and anything associated with modernism is very out of favor right now. I don’t have a ton of experience with the wines but I think the recent vintages are maybe a bit like Vietti where they have more concentration than the most traditional wines but they’re not oaky. But even the 2010, 100 points by Galloni, has never gone crazy in price - maybe $200-250 at most vs the Bartolo 2010, another AG100, trading up to $400-500.

To me the pricing on Sandrone reflects a slightly different dynamic; a lot of wine drinkers buying high end Barolo tend to do so with an eye towards aging it many years*, and there’s not a lot of evidence that modernist wines age particularly well (having had some 15 year old Sandrone, for instance, I don’t think Sandrone of those vintages did). That causes more modernist producers to trade at a “discount” to scores relative to traditional producers; I don’t think people will be excited to see 30 year old Scavino, Sandrone, etc. And, of course, oak is in the eye of the beholder (palate of the taster?); Sandrone uses 500 liter French oak to age the Le Vigne. That is liable to make a pretty oaky wine to my palate, though I’m someone that’s pretty sensitive to new oak in nebbiolo.


*There are exceptions, of course.

Maybe its just me, but the only notes I find really convincing these days are multiple notes from ordinary wine lovers on Cellartracker testifying that they had a great evening with the wine. I just don’t put a lot of weight on professional critics tasting dozens of wines a day from barrel and trying to figure out which one will be great ten years from now. Nothing against them, but I don’t really think they are in the optimal position to judge a wine and there are many other sources available these days, plus I have built up a lot of experience myself.

Somewhat ironically given some of the comments above, Jancis Robinson is one of the critics I trust more than others, despite her rather brief and cryptic notes, because having ascended to living legend status I’m pretty sure she doesn’t care about her relationship with the producer and is immune to groupthink.

Interesting; I put almost no weight on random notes on Cellartracker unless I’m familiar with the particular poster. I’ve seen far too many “this Konsgaard is a very Burgundian Chardonnay” to do so. And I say that as someone who both posts notes on CT and doesn’t expect other people to get all that much from them unless they know me and my palate.

Yeah, you have to know how to use CT. I put no weight on scores alone, only written notes, and then I am usually able to judge the credibility of the written note and how it matches my taste by how the person describes the wine. For example, this 94 point note on a recent Caymus would not lead me to want to get the wine at all-

“Robust fruit, heavy oak, very smooth texture almost viscous. Ready to drink but should improve with more age.”

but lower-scoring but very credible descriptions on other wines outlining a style I like have led me to good purchases. I also mostly accord weight to multiple descriptions of the same wine, people converging on a consensus.

Either way, whether it’s the oak or fear of it not aging well, I think the takeaway is anything accused of being modern, or having been modern in the past - has been a knock on pricing. Personally, my guess would be the Sandrone Le Vigne of recent vintages will age quite well but obviously only time will tell. I thought the '13 Le Vigne was an incredible wine and quite balanced - not overdone in any way, and I don’t notice any noticeable oak on it. I do think the Vite Talin, which was at La Festa two years ago, is an unknown - that one seems overly concentrated and hard to understand, and at the price I have no interest. I had an '06 Le Vigne last year that was still quite tight but promising, so that is a positive sign on aging. I think the modern wines don’t age well when there is too much ripeness, with the worst offenders probably being in the late 90s especially in hot vintages i.e. '97 or '00, when some wines were just hot fruit bombs given the winemaking style + vintage combined. But a '90 Domenico Clerico Ginestra I had two years ago was quite fresh despite being a warm vintage & modern in style. So I don’t know. I have an 89 Sandrone Cannubi lying around which I’m curious to try.

I feel like I’m the exact opposite when it comes to tasting notes. I like the Jancis Robinson quick and dirty instead of the life changing style notes that remind me of the page long food blog stories when you just want the recipe.

I get it, but for 100 points, the extra is nice and arguably necessary. Jancis can be exact but is often too pithy on wines that are excellent

Eh, Voerzio’s not cheap. I’m a lot less convinced than you are that recent Sandrone will age well, but time will tell; though in part this is based on my experiences with Vietti over the years :slight_smile: If reviewers were to shift their scores from Burlotto and Cavallotto to Sandrone and Scavino, I’m 100% all for it!

I for one am bummed that Sandrone’s Barolos’ prices have shot up. At this rate '13 will be my last vintage. While my cellar is predominantly made up of Berserker certified traditionalists, I also very much enjoy middle of the road makers like Sandrone and Gaja. At tastings of recent vintages ('12 and '13) Sandrone has always been one of my favorites, and I’ve gone through a good bunch of 1996/1998/2001 and I can confirm that they age beautifully.

I’m surprised by that as I truley find them uninformative. Too often its says little to nothing about the character of the wine, gives absolutely no context whatsoever (how does the wine compare to other wines in the region, in the vintage, the same wine of other vintages) and hence leaves you just with a score (and scores alone are not very informative).

I like that they taste blind often in Jancis Robinson’s reports. In their coverage of 2016 barolo they definitiely have some interesting ratings compared to Galloni and WA. Points wise Vietti’s crus and Rinaldi Brunate are getting the same ratings as a lot of other Barolos such as Renato Ratti Marchenasco, Colla Bussia, Brovia barolo (normale) etc. Gaja Speers 2016 even gets a lower score.

A couple of thoughts on this:

  • I wonder if critics like Galloni can stay objective in their judgement of a given wine, when they obviously know the people behind the bottle.
  • The lasted report from Jancis Robinson seems to suggest that their isn’t that big of a difference quality wise among a big group of producers in Langhe. On the other hand other critics have a handful of top estates and then a very large group in the middle.
  • Or are they simply saying that Barolo at this young stage is almost impossible to get a solid impression of what is in the bottle do to the wall of tannins.