Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

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Sarah Kirschbaum
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Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#1 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » September 4th, 2020, 11:14 am

A bit of thread drift over in the JJ Prum discussion got me thinking about how my buying by producer has changed over the years, and why those changes have come about.

In the Prum thread, I made the assertion that German Riesling might be the only category where one could consistently buy the same top producers in quantity over a 20 year + period. Looking at my cellar by producer now versus a few snapshots over the years that I have to look back on, that is definitely the case. Not too many years ago, names like Roumier, Bachelet, Bartolo Mascarello and Conterno were near the top. Now they are much further down, not because I like them less, but because I simply haven't been able to keep buying them due to price.

Here's where I stand now:

Keller
Emrich-Schönleber
Antonio Vallanna
Egly-Ouriet
Daniel Rion
Ridge
Bruno Giacosa
Ratzenberger
Cavallotto
Taittinger
Diebolt-Vallois*

* I included #11 because the Egly-Ouriet position consists almost entirely of one wine, the NV Rose, albeit over multiple disgorgements.

A large part of the change comes from my point about changing prices above. While burgundy is still the largest holding in my cellar, only one producer remains on the list.

I think overall buying and drinking habits have had a huge influence as well. 10- 20 years ago, when I was single, I used to buy fewer, more expensive bottles, because I was mostly drinking wine at group dinners with a lot of high end wines. Over the years, especially since getting married, I've lost interest in those kinds of events, and now enjoy wine primarily at home over dinner with Jonathan, or with small groups of friends. The wines we reach for most often are more modestly priced, but still delicious, and we tend to buy them by the case(s) and love following them over the years together. Can't do that with many beloved producers anymore, whether due to price, scarcity or both.

Another reason is a migration towards drinking a higher percentage of white wines than in the past, though we still drink more red by a tiny margin, mostly because we eat a lot of roast chickens. :) Notably, the next 10 positions on my list include only one red producer, with the rest being producers of Champagne, Chablis and more Riesling.

Champagne itself is a big reason for my dominant producer changes over time - I only started drinking champagne about 7 or 8 years ago, so I've had some catching up to do.

And Ridge came entirely from Jonathan's dowry.

Thanks for reading my ramblings. I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on the subject.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#2 Post by Russell Faulkner » September 4th, 2020, 11:23 am

Only notable change for us is that Julian Haart has hit number three.

Concentration seems to increase because much of the new and interesting stuff we buy the bottle and drink the same day as purchase.
Top five producers now 35% of the cellar. (Prum, Schaefer, J Haart, Grunhaus, Keller).

I’ve made big inroads on drinking down the champagne lake. Peters and Lilbert still top but dropping in % terms.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#3 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » September 4th, 2020, 11:57 am

The list goes to 11...a large % of the Rhys is in 375ml or 500ml, so it's not really as high up as it looks. Even if I count two for one on all my Donnhoff 375s it remains at the top of the list. von Schubert is slowly dropping down the list due to limited local availability, but since I prefer those wines with a ton of age it's not that big of a deal.

Donnhoff
Prum
Rhys
Edmunds St. John
Selbach-Oster
Bedrock
Produttori del Barbaresco
Ridge
Maximin Grunhaus/von Schubert
Willi Schaefer
Mugneret Gibourg
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#4 Post by Howard Cooper » September 4th, 2020, 12:04 pm

I don't buy nearly as much wine as I used to buy because of age (I am no longer buying wines to put away for many years) so my list of top producers does not change that much anymore:

Prum and Truchot essentially tied (Prum will eventually be #1 as I cannot buy Truchot anymore)
Jadot (holding to going down - have enough and prices have gone up)
Dublere (as Blair has sold the winery, this will come down as I drink mine up)
Rossignol-Trapet - still buying, great value in Grand Cru Burgundy
Ridge - stopped buying Montebello, still buy Geyserville and Lytton Springs
Reinhold Haart - been buying heavily
Zilliken - Looking forward to buying 2019s
Hudelot-Noellat - Bought a lot in 2013-2017, not a fan of the style of 2018 red Burgs generally, will only buy if I taste
Bouchard - Mostly just buy Meursault Perrieres. Best value in Meursault Perrieres
Chandon de Briailles - Need time to mature. Enjoying what I have but not really buying much more.

A lot of these have been on the list for a very long time, including Prum, Truchot, Jadot, Ridge and Bouchard.

My #s for top purchases since the beginning of 2018 are very different:

1. Ramonet - Buy whites when in Burgundy and price is right. On buying binge for reds. Going up, except I like to drink the wines.
2. Reinhold Haart - Bought a bunch this year and may buy more if I can find 2019s.
3. Bernard Moreau - Buy whites and reds. Moving up my list.
4. Taittinger - Dominates my Champagne purchases. May not in future if prices stay high as reported for 2008s.
5. Clos to a tie among Falkenstein (mostly this week), Heitz-Lochardet, Hudelot-Noellat and Pierre Amiot.

I expect these last number to change some this fall as I buy more 2019 German wines.
Last edited by Howard Cooper on September 4th, 2020, 3:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#5 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » September 4th, 2020, 12:07 pm

Likewise I've seen far more producers "rotate off" due to price than stay on the list. Even within producers, where Ridge Geyserville has stayed on, but Montebello has rotated off.

Beaucastel, Felsina Rancia, Ridge Geyserville, Leoville Barton. That's about it for producers/wines I was buying 20+ years ago and still am. Others, like Lopez de Heredia, Huet and Prüm, would be there except I wasn't wise enough to be buying them back then.

But Chave, Giacosa, Chave, Mascarello Monprivato, Chave, Conterno Francia, Chave, Pichon-Lalande, Chave, LMHB, Chave, Chevillon, Chave, and too many others to name, have all had to be replaced with less expensive names. Domage, but there are far worse problems to have...

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#6 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » September 4th, 2020, 12:26 pm

My cellar is much more unbalanced than most here, it seems.

1. Dom Perignon
2. Krug
3. Cristal

By number of bottles that’s like 25% of the cellar right there.

4. PYCM
5. Hudelot Noellat
6. Chartogne-Tallet
Our house white/red/champagne are from those 3 houses all of which I have in >10 case quantities.

Then almost all of the rest of the cellar is red burgundy, from a variety of different producers without a dominant one.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#7 Post by Rob M » September 4th, 2020, 12:34 pm

I'm pretty concentrated in Piedmont and try to focus on a few producers. Whether I'll be able to keep that up for all of these for the next 20 years, we'll see.....it does get harder each year, but I've found a way thus far to buy at prices I can stomach. It's sort of an open question each vintage esp in hyped ones like 2016.

1. G.D. Vajra (14%)
2. Elio Grasso (9%)
3. Bartolo Mascarello (8%)
4. Giuseppe Rinaldi (7%)
5. Vietti (7%)
6. Produttori del Barbaresco (6%)
7. Luigi Baudana (3%)
8. Francesco Rinaldi (3%)
9. Giacomo Conterno (3%)
10. Bruno Giacosa (3%)

Top 10 = 63%
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#8 Post by Troy Stark » September 4th, 2020, 12:35 pm

We have also migrated toward drinking more white wine and Champagne over the years.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#9 Post by Peter Hirsch » September 4th, 2020, 12:54 pm

Roumier
Rousseau
De Vogue
Jadot
Fourrier
Perrot-Minot
Arnoux
Chave
Groffier
G. Conterno
That's about 31% of my cellar.

Not much of a change from 5 or 10 years ago. I think the reason isn't because I continue to buy these wines in quantity (that's not the case. They were so reasonable 20 years ago, not so much anymore! $100 per bottle for Rousseau 'Chambertin' wasn't a prob in the late '90s). It's because what I buy now I generally consume the same year. More white wine (what my wife likes), some 'everyday' wines, and so proportions don't change that much. Roumier used to be an 'everyday' wine (at least the village Chambolle) and now the whole range is 'special occasion with friends' wine, same with Rousseau. When I was buying, I thought I had a 10-15 year supply of the good stuff, now it's more like 30-40 years!
Last edited by Peter Hirsch on September 7th, 2020, 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#10 Post by Brian Pinci » September 4th, 2020, 1:07 pm

I was a surprised when I ran the report. I was expecting Bordeaux producers Giscours and Le Gay to top the list but I guess I was on a California buying spree at one point in time
In order

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Aubert
Kistler
Patricia Green
Anderson’s Conn Valley
Jonata
Bevan
Abreu
Zind Humbrecht
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#11 Post by Joe W i n o g r a d » September 4th, 2020, 1:22 pm

Producers have changed dramatically (and predictably) during 8 years of finding my way into the hobby.

The clearest through-lines are transition from 10:1 new:old world to the reverse and 4:1 red:white to the reverse.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#12 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » September 4th, 2020, 1:30 pm

Thanks everyone, especially those with notes about how things have or haven't changed. So often, when new wine collectors ask for advice about what to buy or cellar, they hear "be careful, your tastes may change," which is absolutely true, but that just touches the surface of how things can change (or not). I am hoping this thread might shine some light there, and I encourage long time collectors to share!
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#13 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » September 4th, 2020, 1:47 pm

Speaking specifically to changes, I started out with a heavy % of my red wines in Zinfandel. Loved the stuff. Fell out of love with it (even Ridge) for several years (2000-2007 or so), then got back into it in a big way. Hope I don’t switch again!
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#14 Post by Michael Martin » September 4th, 2020, 1:53 pm

Drinking way more whites, Rosé and sparkling. Started heavy into Syrah and Zins.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#15 Post by Kirk.Grant » September 4th, 2020, 2:19 pm

It's interesting to look at this list, but a few things are certainly heavily influencing this list right now. Keller has been my #1 producer for a few years now. However, Bob Bartlett has decided not to make any more wine. So I'm now on a buying spree to pick up as much as I can. I've got 5 cases & 3 mags that I'm quite excited to be adding to the cellar. Sine Qua Non has been in my top 10 for the past 3-4 years, they have been gifts to clinicians on my team, my in-laws, & wines that I truly enjoyed opening & sharing...however, I rarely find myself craving their wines, and that's why they are no longer in my top 10. Brovia has made a big jump in my holdings thanks to the 2016 vintage. I just recently started drinking their wines and the 2006 Villero I opened at my wedding was gone in 20 minutes. It was that good. Produttori is just always a solid value...end of story. Musar has been in my top 10 for the last decade. Coudert & everything below has been a mainstay in the cellar for years but I've been buying more Levet while I still can. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to justify the rising costs in the N. Rhone.

Bartlett Winemaker's Reserve Blueberry (14 bottles & 51 pending) 8.5%
Weingut Keller (37 bottles & 6 pending) 5.7%
Fratelli Brovia (6 bottles & 26 pending) 4.2%
Produttori del Barbaresco (26 bottles & 2 pending) 3.7%
Chateau Musar (26 bottles) 3.4%
Coudert (22 bottles) 2.9%
Thomas (16 bottles & 1 pending) 2.3%
Bernard Levet (8 bottles & 8 pending) 2.1%
Elio Grasso (8 bottles & 6 pending) 1.8%
Cavallotto (10 bottles & 4 pending) 1.8%
Last edited by Kirk.Grant on September 8th, 2020, 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#16 Post by Matthew King » September 4th, 2020, 2:27 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 1:30 pm
Thanks everyone, especially those with notes about how things have or haven't changed. So often, when new wine collectors ask for advice about what to buy or cellar, they hear "be careful, your tastes may change," which is absolutely true, but that just touches the surface of how things can change (or not). I am hoping this thread might shine some light there, and I encourage long time collectors to share!
Ok, following your lead here and focusing my thoughts on how to reassure nascent collectors. My cellar is below 1,000 bottles and heavily Old World -- so that may provide some perspective.

First, I wish I could tell you what my top 10 producers are. I think I could tell you but I don't use CT and don't have Excel spreadsheets of my wines. So, I want to reassure new collectors you don't have to take the quantitative approach with lots of data points. It doesn't have to be mapped out and constantly recalibrated as if assembling a 10-year business plan with breakeven points and exit strategies, etc. (though if that's your thing, it's totally great!). It's OK to be a right-brained, absent-minded professor when it comes to collecting.

Second, my tastes haven't really "changed" in the past 20 years. It's more been an exploration of key regions over the years. I suppose it's like a "buy and hold" strategy similar to a tortoise-like stock-and-bonds strategy. I'm not constantly mixing up my portfolio or trying to time the market when it comes to wine. It's been blue-chips (Rousseau, say) mixed in with a few "growth" picks (back-in-the-day Keller, say). I would get into a certain region for whatever reason -- say Chablis or Tuscany -- and geek out and heavy up my exploration and buying in that area for a year, say. I'd buy maybe three cases of the wines that I zeroed in on -- from favored producers, over a few vintages. Then I just forget them and moved onto my next "fling" -- say Loire whites or Pinot-based farmer fizz. Rinse and repeat. Before I knew it, I had a pretty decent cellar without consciously managing it like a sabermetrics-obsessed baseball G.M.

Third, I gave up long ago trying to curate the perfect balanced cellar. It's not like I'm crafting a list for a Lower East side hipster bar. I just concentrated on key regions and TOTALLY skipped others. Spain makes more wine than any nation on Earth, much of it very good. But I only have like six bottles of Spanish wine in my cellar. (4 Monos old vine stuff from sandy soils from outside Madrid, BTW. Tasty lifted garnacha! [wow.gif]). So main advice: Buy what you like, not what you think you should like or to impress others.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#17 Post by dsimmons » September 4th, 2020, 2:51 pm

My list is heavily influenced by mailing lists which in turn has been driven by what I consider to be good value.

Carlisle (17.3%) - For me and my wine preferences Carlisle has been and remains one of the most consistently good and fairly priced producers in the wine world. I have been a mailing list customer for over 15 years.

Quilceda Creek (5.3%) - Again for my tastes one of the very best values in high end Cab. I have been on their mailing list for about 20 years.

Cayuse - (5%) - Love their wines with cellar time. I have been on their list for about 15 years.
Walter Hansel - (4.1%) I really like their Chards and Pinots. I've been buying their wines for over 10 years.

Chateau Montelena (2.9%) - I was on their mailing list for about 15 years. Dropped off of the list because of the cellar time needed to mature.

Betz (2.8%) - Have been buying their wines for over 15 years. Great Cab. Rhone blends and Syrah.

Gouges (2%) - These were an auction misstep. Most are from'04 to '07. After 16 years some of the '04 are actually drinkable.

Tablas Creek (1.5%) I have been buying some of their red wines for a long time but have started to buy a lot of their Rhone whites in the last 5 years. Great summer wines.

Outpost - (1.3%) I was on their mailing list for quite a few years and accumulated quite a stash of their outstanding cabs.

Pegau - (1%) I love CdP and have a lot in my cellar from a wide variety of producers. Of the next 10 ranks in my cellar, 6 are CdP producers.

Like most of you who are aging gracefully, I have been drastically reducing my wine purchases by dropping off mailing lists or sharing allocations with friends.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#18 Post by AndyK » September 4th, 2020, 2:51 pm

Interesting exercise :)

Top 10 producers purchased from 1/2017-12/2018:
Rhys
Arnot-Roberts
Larkmead Vineyards
Littorai
Jean Foillard
Ridge
Joseph Phelps
Aubert
Rivers-Marie
Thierry Allemand

And from 1/2019-9/2020:
Rhys
Vincent Dauvissat (René & Vincent)
Thierry Allemand
Vietti
Produttori del Barbaresco
Jean Foillard
Arnot-Roberts
Bruno Giacosa
Jean-François Ganevat
Krug

Quite the shift...
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#19 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » September 4th, 2020, 3:16 pm

For me the only change is that I’ve been buying more grand cru lately for burg, otherwise not really any.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#20 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » September 4th, 2020, 3:49 pm

Expanding on changing tastes, that has also played a role in my cellar.

Initially, my cellar was almost all Napa cab because, as everyone knew, Napa cab and Bordeaux were the only wines worth pursuing, and Bordeaux was in the midst of a string of mediocre vintages, remedied when the ‘95s were released.

Fairly soon, large allocations to the Rhône and Tuscany emerged, plus other CA wine like zin and syrah, and Piedmont and other regions like Campania and Rioja after that, but it was only many years that cellar allocations to Burgundy, Loire (Chenin), and Germany emerged.

All of the changes in producers referenced in my first response were due to price. All of the changes in regions referenced in this response were do to changing/expanding tastes.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#21 Post by brodie thomson » September 4th, 2020, 4:27 pm

Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 1:30 pm
Thanks everyone, especially those with notes about how things have or haven't changed. So often, when new wine collectors ask for advice about what to buy or cellar, they hear "be careful, your tastes may change," which is absolutely true, but that just touches the surface of how things can change (or not). I am hoping this thread might shine some light there, and I encourage long time collectors to share!
My wine journey started in 1981 when I moved from NZ to Australia. Got stats back to 2005. The evolution from 2005 to 2020 represents a journey from Aussie reds to Red Burgs and Rieslings.

2005: Still on a bunch of Aussie mailing lists, but buying a lot more French wines especially Bdx

1. Wendouree
2. Yarra Yering
3. Yeringburg
4. Penfolds
5. Rockford
6. Leoville Barton
7. Kays Block 6
8. Ch.Rieussec
9. Dalwhinnie
10. Leoville Poyferre

2010: by now have completely stopped buying Aussies but the legacy purchases are still dominating the stats. Burgundies and Donnhoff are now making an appearance in the top 10

1. Wendouree
2. Yarra Yaring
3. Yeringburg
4. Penfolds
5. Rockford
6. Leoville Barton
7. Giacosa
8. Donnhoff
9. Mugnier
10. Roussseau

2015: The buying of Red Burgs and Donnhoff is starting the make an impact on the top ten now

1. Wendouree
2. Yarra Yering
3. Yeringburg
4. Mugnier
5. Rousseau
6. Donnhoff
7. Penfolds
8. Rockford
9. Giacosa
10. Clavelier

2020: sold off around 50% of the Aussie holdings - not drinking them fast enough. Patriotic buying of Felton Rd has led to a NZ wine in the top 10. Donnhoff has reached No.1

1. Donnhoff
2. Wendouree
3. Rousseau
4. Mugnier
5. Chave
6. Felton Road
7. Produttori
8. Penfolds
9. Yarra Yering
10. Raveneau


quite a journey from big warm Aussie reds to red Burgs, Piedmont, Rieslings and Nth Rhone

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#22 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » September 4th, 2020, 4:48 pm

D@ve D y r 0 f f wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 12:07 pm
Likewise I've seen far more producers "rotate off" due to price than stay on the list. Even within producers, where Ridge Geyserville has stayed on, but Montebello has rotated off.

Beaucastel, Felsina Rancia, Ridge Geyserville, Leoville Barton. That's about it for producers/wines I was buying 20+ years ago and still am. Others, like Lopez de Heredia, Huet and Prüm, would be there except I wasn't wise enough to be buying them back then.

But Chave, Giacosa, Chave, Mascarello Monprivato, Chave, Conterno Francia, Chave, Pichon-Lalande, Chave, LMHB, Chave, Chevillon, Chave, and too many others to name, have all had to be replaced with less expensive names. Domage, but there are far worse problems to have...
"You said Chave 7 times."

"I like Chave."
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2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#23 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » September 4th, 2020, 4:59 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:48 pm

"I like Chave."
Was I too obvious? [rofl.gif]

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#24 Post by Nevin Miller » September 4th, 2020, 5:02 pm

Not by counting - just a gut feeling for what’s in my cellar. My tastes have switched from Ca, to Europe, and back to Ca over the years. Top holdings, in descending order:

1. Carlisle - approx 300 bottles and 20 magnums
2. Ridge - approx 250 bottles and lots of large formats
3. Rivers Marie - Between Cab and Pinot - 150 bottles and 15 magnums
4. Rochioli - 125 bottles - mostly svds
5. Maybach - 60 bottles and 10 mags
6. Aubert - 60 bottles, Pinot and Chardonnay
7. Rafanelli - 60 bottles
8. Suideraut - 20 bottles
9. Taylor VP - 15 bottles
10. Sherwin Family - 15 bottles

I clearly have a California palate. Sold all my Bordeaux, don’t have any burgundy. Have lots of Rhone Valley, lots of port, and loads of other California Pinots and Cabs.
Last edited by Nevin Miller on September 4th, 2020, 5:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#25 Post by brodie thomson » September 4th, 2020, 5:03 pm

D@ve D y r 0 f f wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:59 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 4:48 pm

"I like Chave."
Was I too obvious? [rofl.gif]
yes - another Chave Hermitage Rouge fan here. It is no.5 on my list and also have 18 different vintages.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#26 Post by jason stein » September 4th, 2020, 5:31 pm

Always find these threads interesting.

My order is as follows:
1. PYCM
2. Hudelot-Noellat
3. Arnoux-Lachaux
4. JF Ganevat
5. Dauvissat
6. Bernard Moreau
7. Donnhoff
8. Mugneret-Gibourg
9. Fourrier
10. Wasenhaus

Definitely have seen Germany/Jura creep in to overtake what was an all-burgundy list, though I'm still actively buying from all of these regions/producers. Have only really been collecting for a few years but has been interesting to see the ebb and flow over time.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#27 Post by Markus S » September 4th, 2020, 5:32 pm

Matthew King wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 2:27 pm
Sarah Kirschbaum wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 1:30 pm
Thanks everyone, especially those with notes about how things have or haven't changed. So often, when new wine collectors ask for advice about what to buy or cellar, they hear "be careful, your tastes may change," which is absolutely true, but that just touches the surface of how things can change (or not). I am hoping this thread might shine some light there, and I encourage long time collectors to share!
...

First, I wish I could tell you what my top 10 producers are. I think I could tell you but I don't use CT and don't have Excel spreadsheets of my wines. ...

Second, my tastes haven't really "changed" in the past 20 years. It's more been an exploration of key regions over the years. ...

Third, I gave up long ago trying to curate the perfect balanced cellar. It....: Buy what you like, not what you think you should like or to impress others.
I would say Matt's approach is very similar to my own. Really have no idea what are the 10 or so largest producers. I could tell you what I have a lot of, mostly Olde Worlde but with smatterings of New World wines I think are cool and have aging potential. I like the aging potential side because I never no when I'll get around to drinking something, so like to have wines that will not fall apart after a year or two.

As for tastes changing, they will, but the things I drank when I first started, German riesling and white Graves, I still like. Early explorations into the Northern Rhone and Burgundy, Loire and Italy and Germany continue and have expanded, while wines I used to like from California have changed during the 1990's and early 2000's as has Bordeaux into something darker and drearier. New areas have appeared, like New Spain, Greece, Austria, South Africa, New America, with the result that more interesting wines are being made worldwide. Older wines that I could have stretched to buy have now simply become unaffordable to me; no need to name names here since we all know what these are. The thing is, as something gets popular and pricey, there are many, many more wines ready and able to fill the slot it used to occupy. So really, no worries there. We can get sentimental about wines we used to love, talking of 'friendships' and 'relationships' but how many people that we call friends and lovers would be willing to take advantage of us? You can have wines that speak to you, whisper into your soul, but they are still a commercially made product that gets sold on the international marketplace. This rather takes the fun out of romanticizing of things like Chave and Rougeard at today's high prices. Don't let people tell you you need to chase something you don't have the resources for. Invest in something that will help the environment instead and you will feel prouder having done so than you would have drinking that Grand Cru Burg. Tastes will change but they will also stay the same too, probably why hamburgers are the best selling fast food. If we all abandoned them as we grew up, they wouldn't be any Burger Kings or McDonalds.
So what about top holdings? Hmm... where IS that flashlight?!
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#28 Post by Craig G » September 4th, 2020, 5:41 pm

Chave (but 60% is St. Joseph)
Guillemot
Gerard Mugneret
Dujac
La Conseillante
Rayas & Ch. Des Tours (very little actual Rayas)
Trevallon
Dehlinger
Pichon Lalande
Bertheau

These make up 40% of my wine. I’ve been moving toward more focus on a set of about 15 producers. Five years ago I had quite a bit of Bordeaux but no producers in the top 10. I tried to pick my favorite wines that I could afford (e.g. no Haut Brion) and buy more of those, so while I haven’t bought all that much Bdx over the past five years, I’ve bought quite a bit of Conseillante and PLL.

Another big change here was Chave. I always collected it but I had stopped buying after 1997 due to pricing. Then I discovered the St. Jo and bought many vintages. More recently I broke down and started backfilling the “lesser” vintages of Hermitage: 92, 02, 08, 11, 13, 14, which are not cheap but I’ve found I love all vintages.

I was on the Dehlinger list for many years but stopped after the 09s. I’ve really been enjoying the late 90’s and early 00’s wines. Recently I’ve started on some 05’s and 06’s which has a bit of a ramp-up in ripeness from earlier vintages, but they are drinking nicely as well. I’m not buying any more CA Pinot because I find I like $20-45 Burgundies more than higher-end CA wines.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#29 Post by Steve Gautier » September 4th, 2020, 6:26 pm

Top ten (eleven since there was a tie for tenth) is all California and very WineBerserkers heavy.

Bedrock
Carlisle
Anderson’s Conn Valley
Sojourn
Jean Edwards
Myriad
Chappellet
Rivers-Marie
Sandler
Lagier-Meredith
Andrew Geoffrey

Percentage of Bedrock is almost as much as the other 10 combined. Carlisle continues to increase as well as I find Zinfandel/Syrah/Mixed Black continues to be my go to.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#30 Post by Nevin Miller » September 4th, 2020, 6:32 pm

Steve Gautier wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 6:26 pm
Top ten (eleven since there was a tie for tenth) is all California and very WineBerserkers heavy.

Bedrock
Carlisle
Anderson’s Conn Valley
Sojourn
Jean Edwards
Myriad
Chappellet
Rivers-Marie
Sandler
Lagier-Meredith
Andrew Geoffrey

Percentage of Bedrock is almost as much as the other 10 combined. Carlisle continues to increase as well as I find Zinfandel/Syrah/Mixed Black continues to be my go to.
Similar tastes....clearly.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#31 Post by EricJ » September 4th, 2020, 8:25 pm

dsimmons wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 2:51 pm
My list is heavily influenced by mailing lists which in turn has been driven by what I consider to be good value.

Carlisle (17.3%) - For me and my wine preferences Carlisle has been and remains one of the most consistently good and fairly priced producers in the wine world. I have been a mailing list customer for over 15 years.

Quilceda Creek (5.3%) - Again for my tastes one of the very best values in high end Cab. I have been on their mailing list for about 20 years.

Cayuse - (5%) - Love their wines with cellar time. I have been on their list for about 15 years.
Walter Hansel - (4.1%) I really like their Chards and Pinots. I've been buying their wines for over 10 years.

Chateau Montelena (2.9%) - I was on their mailing list for about 15 years. Dropped off of the list because of the cellar time needed to mature.

Betz (2.8%) - Have been buying their wines for over 15 years. Great Cab. Rhone blends and Syrah.

Gouges (2%) - These were an auction misstep. Most are from'04 to '07. After 16 years some of the '04 are actually drinkable.

Tablas Creek (1.5%) I have been buying some of their red wines for a long time but have started to buy a lot of their Rhone whites in the last 5 years. Great summer wines.

Outpost - (1.3%) I was on their mailing list for quite a few years and accumulated quite a stash of their outstanding cabs.

Pegau - (1%) I love CdP and have a lot in my cellar from a wide variety of producers. Of the next 10 ranks in my cellar, 6 are CdP producers.

Like most of you who are aging gracefully, I have been drastically reducing my wine purchases by dropping off mailing lists or sharing allocations with friends.
Don,

Is there anywhere in Anchorage to pick up bottles of Carlisle?

As for the original prompt... I just started adding myself onto wine lists to begin building out a cellar. I have until next fall to figure out long term storage before I pick up my 2018 Bordeaux futures in Seattle. As for the initial concentration:

1. Frontaura (Toro producer)
2. Vietti
3. Bruno Giacosa
4. Numanthia
5. Lafite Rothschild (ordered a case of 2018)

I haven't figure out other producers yet, but for I expect it to be heavy in Spanish and Italian wines. A decent amount of sparkling, and a mix of Bordeaux, California, and Washington producers.
J o h n s o n

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#32 Post by john stimson » September 4th, 2020, 8:40 pm

Don't actually know, and haven't really decided whether I care to know, or should know, or not. Haven't really decided if this a corollary of the uncertainty principle, or if I'm just a tad lazy. I do like the uncertainty principle thing, though.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#33 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 4th, 2020, 10:43 pm

My wine buying has changed dramatically in some ways and barely at all in others over the years. I started collecting with a heavy Burgundy focus, but that very heavy focus on Burgundy shifted first to lower priced models and is now relatively a trickle of bargain hunting. I just can’t justify buying village wines for $50-80, let alone the tariff for the “lower end” wines I really like—Mugneret Vosne, Roumier Chambolle, and Lignier MSD VV in red. And Premox also had a big effect on my white buying. I still have a lot of Burgundy in the cellar spread out among many domaines and backfill if i can. The only domaine I seriously focused on buying over the last 15 years or so is Chevillon. I shifted some of Burg buying to N Rhône, but I always bought that too. I also buy a decent amount of older Bordeaux in small lots but that has never accumulated to a significant number of bottles in any one chateau.

I have always bought a lot of German wine and Huet as well. And that has continued. The most significant change there is I used to buy a lot more Donnhoff. I stopped and shifted to filling another perceived hole, Schaefer. That major shift continued over the last 5 years as I drank Donnhoff without replacing them with new vintages, and I stopped backfilling them at auction. I still have a good amount of Donnhoff. I also returned to regular purchasing of von Schubert after a few years off, and that is now reflected in my top holdings.

My ranking now:

Huet
Schaefer
Donnhoff
Juge
Prum
Von Schubert
Chevillon

Added: These 7 producers account for about 25% of my cellar. Huet is just under 7%, which is the same as ~5 years ago.
Last edited by Jayson Cohen on September 5th, 2020, 8:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#34 Post by Stan Y. » September 5th, 2020, 4:51 am

Jadot
Lambrays
Barthod
Gonon
Hudelot-Noellat
Allemand
Chave
Jamet
Vieux Telegraphe
Ramonet, de Villaine (tie)

I used to have more Burgundy in the top 10 but like Sarah says I can't keep up due to price and we drink more modestly more often. Also, at one time, for the northern Rhone it was just Chave in the top 10, then Jamet and Allemand caught up as Chave approached $300.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#35 Post by Jim Hanlon » September 5th, 2020, 7:44 am

My current top 10:

Puffeney (stocked up as retirement approached)
JJ Prum (per another thread, one of wine's best values if you like fruity Riesling)
Mount Eden (my favorite American domaine)
Donnhoff
Produttori (another strong contender for great value, although prices seem to be rising)
Huet (stopped buying when they booted Pinguet -- hope to have enough to last me)
Schaefer
Clos Roche Blanche (also stocked up as retirement approached)
Edmunds St. John (my favorite American winemaker)
Gonon
Baudry (tie, so 11)

These constitute about 20% of my cellar. Over the years I have consolidated my buying in certain core domaines, which is reflected here. But the largest holding in my cellar is Burgundy (25%). There, I have much more diversity because (a) there are so many strong domaines and (b) pricing makes me hunt out bargains, rather than just presume to buy a wine year over year.

Looking at what's moved out:

I've sold my Rhys, which used to be in the top three. As the wines escalated in price, I couldn't justify them relative to Burgundy or domestic wines, like Mount Eden, that I like as much or more. Once I decide not to continue to buy a wine, I often have less interest keeping it in my cellar.

I've also sold a good bit of Bedrock, even though they're still a substantial holding. I just don't drink Zin blends that often, due to the alcohol levels, palate preference, and the food I eat. As a Californian, I do like having the heritage wines around from time to time, though.

I've sold European wines that really increased in price. Goodbye to Rougeard. My few bottles of Truchot. Most of my Juge. If you wouldn't buy a bottle at the price for which you can sell it, then.... It helps that I've enjoyed these wines already, and have pleasant memories of them. I'm comfortable leaving them for others at the vastly higher pricing. I've still kept almost all my Overnoy/Houillon, however. I genuinely love those wines, and have since before they were famous outside the (then small) world of Jura fans.

I also love Beaujolais, but have been trying to cut back my cellar holdings because given how fun the wines are young, I only need to keep so many aged bottles (and I do like the aged counterpoint). Moved off all my Metras because the wines got expensive and were just too variable. Have been cutting back my holdings of even core wines, like Coudert, which used to be in my top 10. I still have a lot of Beaujolais collectively, though.

Only a few things have moved out because my tastes changed. I suppose Sherry would be number one. I used to have quite a bit of Equipo Navazos and others, but have let them all go. I just wasn't drinking them.

Basically, I've been trying to learn to approach my cellar like this: What do I open each year? What do I expect to open in 2035? The number of bottles annually has gone down, which is a good thing. But that's led my default purchase number of bottles to move down and to cutting the number of wines. There are only so many days, and healthy drinking (to the extent one can) has become important to me.
Last edited by Jim Hanlon on September 5th, 2020, 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#36 Post by jason stein » September 5th, 2020, 7:46 am

Jim Hanlon wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 7:44 am
My current top 10:

Puffeney (stocked up as retirement approached)
JJ Prum (per another thread, one of wine's best values if you like fruity Riesling)
Mount Eden (my favorite American domaine)
Donnhoff
Produttori (another strong contender for great value, although prices seem to be rising)
Huet (stopped buying when they booted Pinguet -- hope to have enough to last me)
Schaefer
Clos Roche Blanche (also stocked up as retirement approached)
Edmunds St. John (my favorite American winemaker)
Gonon
Baudry (tie, so 11)

These constitute about 20% of my cellar. Over the years I have consolidated my buying in certain core domaines, which is reflected here. But the largest holding in my cellar is Burgundy (25%). There, I have much more diversity because (a) there are so many strong domaines and (b) pricing makes me hunt out bargains, rather than just presume to buy a wine year over year.

Looking at what's moved out:

I've sold my Rhys, which used to be in the top three. As the wines escalated in price, I couldn't justify them relative to Burgundy or domestic wines, like Mount Eden, that I like as much or more.

I've also sold a good bit of Bedrock, even though they're still a substantial holding. I just don't drink Zin blends that often, due to the alcohol levels, palate preference, and the food I eat. As a Californian, I do like having the heritage wines around from time to time, though.

I've sold European wines that really increased in price. Goodbye to Rougeard. My few bottles of Truchot. Most of my Juge. If you wouldn't buy a bottle at the price for which you can sell it, then.... It helps that I've enjoyed these wines already, and have pleasant memories of them. I'm comfortable leaving them for others at the vastly higher pricing. I've still kept almost all my Overnoy/Houillon, however. I genuinely love those wines, and have since before they were famous outside the (then small) world of Jura fans.

I also love Beaujolais, but have been trying to cut back my cellar holdings because given how fun the wines are young, I only need to many aged bottles (and I do like the aged counterpoint). Moved off all my Metras because the wines got expensive and were just too variable. Have been cutting back my holdings of even core wines, like Coudert, which used to be in my top 10. I still have a lot of Beaujolais collectively, though.

Only a few things have moved out because my tastes changed. I suppose Sherry would be number one. I used to have quite a bit of Equipo Navazos and others, but have let them all go. I just wasn't drinking them.

Basically, I've been trying to learn to approach my cellar like this: What do I open each year? What do I expect to open in 2035? The number of bottles annually has gone down, which is a good thing. But that's led my default purchase number of bottles to move down and to cutting the number of wines. There are only so many days, and healthy drinking (to the extent one can) has become important to me.
Nice on the Puffeney. I have some of the Trousseau Berangeres, Poulsard and Savagnin that I cherish (and struggle to find more of!)
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#37 Post by Jim Hanlon » September 5th, 2020, 8:00 am

jason stein wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 7:46 am
Jim Hanlon wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 7:44 am
My current top 10:

Puffeney (stocked up as retirement approached)
JJ Prum (per another thread, one of wine's best values if you like fruity Riesling)
Mount Eden (my favorite American domaine)
Donnhoff
Produttori (another strong contender for great value, although prices seem to be rising)
Huet (stopped buying when they booted Pinguet -- hope to have enough to last me)
Schaefer
Clos Roche Blanche (also stocked up as retirement approached)
Edmunds St. John (my favorite American winemaker)
Gonon
Baudry (tie, so 11)
Nice on the Puffeney. I have some of the Trousseau Berangeres, Poulsard and Savagnin that I cherish (and struggle to find more of!)
I was fortunate to visit Puffeney in 2010, and learned that there wasn't going to be a succession. So I had a bit of a head's up on gathering what I could. I probably have enough for a bottle every quarter for the rest of my life, which works. I haven't actually been drinking them that regularly the last couple years because each bottle seems so precious.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#38 Post by David Glasser » September 5th, 2020, 8:41 am

We tend to buy and drink broadly rather than in depth so there isn’t a huge difference in number of bottles between the top 10 producers and the next 10. The differences over time have been more related to regions/styles than producers.

I’ve been through a few phases.

When I started out in the early '80s, tasting group exposures to Zins, Napa cabs, and aged Bordeaux drove my interests. There was no internet buying and minimal online info sharing. Parker was a big influence and I got on a bunch of mailing lists. I loved to drink big fruity oaky wines while waiting for the Bordeaux and Napa cabs to mature. Back then and into the mid-late '90s my top holdings were likely:
Lynch Bages
Angelus
Gruaud Larose
Talbot
Pichon Lalande
Pichon Baron
Conseillante
Shafer
Ridge
Turley
Martinelli
Peter Michael
Mondavi
Beringer

I then fell out of love with Zins in general and the massively oaky, high alcohol style and discovered that most of my Napa cabs were not turning into Bordeaux as they aged. And the cellar was filling up with mailing list wines faster than we could drink them. Many of them were "hostage wines" required to purchase to stay on the list or to have access to the cherries. I dropped the lists and sent the excess to auction.

At the same time I was developing an interest in Champagne, N. and S. Rhône and German Riesling. Friends' attempts to turn me on to Burgundy and Italian wines were mostly unsuccessful. So the next phase of my cellar probably had these as top holdings:
Lynch Bages
Pichon Lalande
Pichon Baron
Gruaud Larose
Talbot
Montrose
Conseillante
Haut Bailly
Jamet
Chave
Beaucastel
Pegau
Prum
Ridge
Montelena

More recently I’ve fallen out of love with the increasingly sweet ripe Grenache coming out of CduP so I’ve stopped buying there. And I’ve finally started to "get" Italian Nebbiolo and Burgundy. Probably too late but I’ve been buying Produttori. Currently the top 10 are:
Lynch Bages
Krug
Prum
Pichon Lalande
Haut Bailly
Produttori
Conseillante
Pichon Baron
Dom Perignon
Beaucastel

We still drink more red Bordeaux than anything else so that aspect of my preferences hasn’t changed, even though some other areas/styles have fallen in or out of favor. Bordeaux makes up half of our top 10 producers and just over 50% of the total cellar.

My advice for newbies is not to go overboard on one producer or style until you’ve had a chance to try a range of styles and regions. Join a tasting group (it may be another year before these are back to in-person, but COVID won’t be forever) to expand the reach of what you can try without killing your budget or liver.

Try some aged stuff by backfilling or via tasting group. If you like what you taste, AND the story is that they’re still making it that way, then it may be worth buying in quantity to age.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#39 Post by alan weinberg » September 5th, 2020, 8:46 am

like some others, my organization is random chaos. In the cellar I’ve separated whites from reds from Germans from champagne, etc. Roumier, DRC, and Bachelet used to lead the pack but I faced actuarial reality and stopped buying reds with the 2005 vintage—except cheaper stuff to drink while letting the great wines age. Now I buy Ramonet and a few other whites, mostly Chablis and lots of champagne. It’s always a nice surprise when searching the cellar for a wine to drink since my cataloguing is so inexact.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#40 Post by Brian Bohr » September 5th, 2020, 8:56 am

Always an interesting exercise. I will admit my list may appear strange and I will be surprised if anyone else has Saxum and Mugneret Gibourg in their top 10 but here goes:

Saxum - I have been on the mailing list since the 2001 release. We drink a ton of these but they still add up
Linne Calodo - I have been on the mailing list since the 2000 release. Same as above
Rhys - Another early mailing list, my holdings have been declining as release prices have increased
PYCM - Love their wines, as prices have increased across their lineup I have purchased more of the St. Aubins
Aubert - My favorite CA Chardonnay producer, I don't buy the pinots
Donnhoff - I tend to buy four German producers, Donnhoff, Prum, Willi Schaeffer and AJ Adam. I just so happen to have more Donnhoff than the others
Andremily - Another mailing list that I enjoy
Pontet-Canet - Have been buying since the 2003 vintage, buy in most vintages except those that I avoid Bordeaux altogether (2007, 2011, 2013, 2017)
Faiveley - Easily available. Wide selection of village, 1er and Grand Cru
Mugneret-Gibourg - I just love these wines. Only wish I could find them in quantities at the prices I paid as little as 5 or 6 years ago
Dom Perignon - Always a hit, I stocked up a lot on the 2008 vintage
Roumier - The first Burgundy producer I really bought (and that was only 7 or 8 years ago). Buy when I find them at a price I like but as with MG this is getting more difficult
SQN - Have bought from friends' allocations in the past and was recently added to the mailing list
Prum - As many others have said what a great value

Overall I am happy with this list. Sure I would likely trade some of the new world Rhones for more MG and Roumier but good luck finding that counterparty. The biggest change is that at one time Turley and Carlisle would have been in my top 5 but as I have moved away from zinfandel they have decreased. The next names on the list are more Burgundy domaines, the other two Germans, Krug, a Northern Rhone producer and another Bordeaux. My first California Cabernet (Shafer - all Hillside Select) comes in at #25. I do wish I had a bit more properly aged California cabernet.
Last edited by Brian Bohr on September 5th, 2020, 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#41 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 5th, 2020, 10:49 am

I really wish MG was in my top 10. That’s fabulous.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#42 Post by Mattstolz » September 5th, 2020, 11:08 am

I basically have a top five and then everything else. The top are not even close to the rest:

Kelley Fox
Bedrock
Produttori
Felsina
Patricia Green

Chantreves is creeping across the gap from the Peleton to the leaders but hasn't made it quite yet, though I imagine they will at some point, especially as they start bottling more estate fruit.

these havent really changed much, but I also have not been buying wine very long. I imagine most changes for me early in the game so far will come more from discovery of producers new to me than changing tastes. and hopefully due to buying more champagne.

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#43 Post by Lee Barnard » September 5th, 2020, 11:14 am

Ended up not being all that surprised when I ran the report. Basically my favorite producers who still are (or recently were) affordable in quantity.

Domaine de Chevalier
Hudelot-Noellat
Sociando Mallet
Grand-Puy-Lacoste
Produttori
Patricia Green
Dom
Pichon Lalande
Chevillon
d’Angerville

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#44 Post by Greg K » September 5th, 2020, 11:25 am

I don't have an exact list, but my cellar concentration has definitely narrowed over the last two years, especially with Burgundy. I was more willing to buy widely as I was exploring Burgundy, I am considerably less willing now.

I've also almost entirely stopped buying village, other than a few very specific producers; the value is just not there.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#45 Post by Gregory Dal Piaz » September 5th, 2020, 1:18 pm

I can't say the top producers in my cellar have changed much over the past several years, which is not to say that what I've bought hasn't changed. I've bought for decades, and often in case quantities, and generally start drinking wine at age 20, so my most abundant producers are fairly static. Though considering I haven't bought a Giacomo Conterno wine in at east 4 years it might be surprising that this cantina remains on top.

G Conterno 5%
Brovia 4.1%
G Mascarello 4%
Vietti 3.1%
Burlotto 2.9%
Bartolo Mascarello 2.5%
G Rinaldi 2.3%
Oddero 2.2%
Giacosa 2.1%
Produttori del Barbaresco 1.5%

The next 2 are gaining ground, joining Brovia and Oddero as the producers represented here that I currently buy in quantity, though if pricing is good I would still add Bartolo.

Elvio Cogno 1.4%
Massolino 1.3%

Looking at wines that i buy in quantity for more immediate consumption shows that Burgundy and Chianti Classico represent more of my daily drinking these days than they had in the past. Joblot. Michele Sarrazin, Pierre Guillemot, Castellare in Castellina, Montevertine, Istine, and Selvapiana represent purchases on par with those in Piedmont and occupy a more important place in my cellar than perhaps sheer numbers on hand might indicate.
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#46 Post by Rob M » September 5th, 2020, 1:25 pm

Gregory Dal Piaz wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 1:18 pm
I can't say the top producers in my cellar have changed much over the past several years, which is not to say that what I've bought hasn't changed. I've bought for decades, and often in case quantities, and generally start drinking wine at age 20, so my most abundant producers are fairly static. Though considering I haven't bought a Giacomo Conterno wine in at east 4 years it might be surprising that this cantina remains on top.

G Conterno 5%
Brovia 4.1%
G Mascarello 4%
Vietti 3.1%
Burlotto 2.9%
Bartolo Mascarello 2.5%
G Rinaldi 2.3%
Oddero 2.2%
Giacosa 2.1%
Produttori del Barbaresco 1.5%

The next 2 are gaining ground, joining Brovia and Oddero as the producers represented here that I currently buy in quantity, though if pricing is good I would still add Bartolo.

Elvio Cogno 1.4%
Massolino 1.3%

Looking at wines that i buy in quantity for more immediate consumption shows that Burgundy and Chianti Classico represent more of my daily drinking these days than they had in the past. Joblot. Michele Sarrazin, Pierre Guillemot, Castellare in Castellina, Montevertine, Istine, and Selvapiana represent purchases on par with those in Piedmont and occupy a more important place in my cellar than perhaps sheer numbers on hand might indicate.
At least I'm not the only crazy person with every winery in their top 10 being from Piedmont [highfive.gif]
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#47 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » September 5th, 2020, 1:26 pm

EricJ wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 8:25 pm
Don,

Is there anywhere in Anchorage to pick up bottles of Carlisle?

As for the original prompt... I just started adding myself onto wine lists to begin building out a cellar. I have until next fall to figure out long term storage before I pick up my 2018 Bordeaux futures in Seattle. As for the initial concentration:

1. Frontaura (Toro producer)
2. Vietti
3. Bruno Giacosa
4. Numanthia
5. Lafite Rothschild (ordered a case of 2018)

I haven't figure out other producers yet, but for I expect it to be heavy in Spanish and Italian wines. A decent amount of sparkling, and a mix of Bordeaux, California, and Washington producers.
Welcome to the board, Eric! A quick little word on my personal experience with Numanthia: they don't age well, in my opinion. I don't know if you are focusing on wines with a mind towards cellaring them (it appears you are), but I've had some pretty poor experiences with the '04 and '05 "Numanthia" bottling the past couple years. YMMV, but something to think about --- you might want to pivot to a different producer. Or not. :)
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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#48 Post by Andrew Gold » September 5th, 2020, 1:53 pm

My list at the moment. I expect the burgs to migrate down and maybe off the list, likely Cavalloto in 11th will move up, followed by Vajra/Brovia.

Marcarini
Produttori del Barbaresco
Comm. G.B. Burlotto
Domaine Henri Gouges
Domaine de Montille
Francois Gay
Cappellano
Domaine Ghislaine Barthod
Giacomo Fenocchio
Corison

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#49 Post by EvanLodes » September 5th, 2020, 2:42 pm

The biggest change to our cellar has been a steady shift towards Champagne, which is now 34% of the total, nearly in line with Burgundy, which has always been a major focus. This has come at the expense primarily of the New World, where we still have a few producers that we like and consistently buy and enjoy (HDV and Littorai), but very few others. The other major change is a shift within Champagne from big houses (other than Krug) to growers.

Top 5 = 47% of total, top 10 = 63%.

Current top 10:
Hyde de Villaine
Pierre Peters
de Montille
Leflaive
PYCM
Littorai
Suenen
Ledru (have been buying a lot since her retirement)
Dujac
Krug

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Re: Top Cellar Holdings by Producer and Some Thoughts on how/why that's Changed

#50 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » September 5th, 2020, 3:04 pm

I'm not going to post my top 10 producers, as I'm only 5 years into this wine hobby and some recent purchases with 2019 German rieslings have shifted things a bit.

The biggest change for me has been as a consequence of a shifting palate. When I first started, my purchasing was mostly limited to CA zinfandel/zin blends (Bedrock, Ridge, Carlisle, Turley), southern Rhone blends, and German riesling. While I still buy and drink German riesling with a fervor (JJ Prum, Martin Mullen, and Willi Schaefer are my top 3 holdings), my buying has shifted away a bit from big, full-bodied reds as my wife doesn't like them and I can't drink those higher ABV wines with such regularity. For CA zinfandel/zin blends, I now only buy Bedrock as I love Morgan's wines, and limit CA cabernet to just a couple producers whose styles I like. Southern Rhone purchases are now limited to just Beaucastel and Vieux Telegraphe in vintages I think I'll like.

Over time I've dipped a little into several regions, including Piedmont, Tuscany, and Bordeaux, but find myself drinking a lot more light reds and whites with good acid structure on the whole. My German riesling fanaticism hasn't changed, and I've come to enjoy Champagne with more regularity than as a celebratory wine. I spent a little time trying Oregon pinot noir in 2016-2017, but in the past year have come back to Oregon wines in a big way both for pinot noir and chardonnay.
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2020 contenders for WOTY:
2017 Goodfellow Family Cellars Durant Vineyard Chardonnay
2015 Laherte Frères Champagne Blanc des Blancs Extra Brut Les Grands Crayeres
2001 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2015 Josef Walter Hundsruck Spätburgunder "J"

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