1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

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1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#1 Post by S. Rash »

My wedding anniversary is 1997 and I want to start buying wine from that vintage opening one each year in the future with my wife. I know it was a great year for Italy and good for California. I have never bought wine from an auction or private cellar. What is everyone’s opinion on Wine Bid vs Wine Searcher. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Go!
Last edited by S. Rash on September 15th, 2020, 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Auctions

#2 Post by William Woodruff »

Welcome.

Winebiid is a wine auction site, wine searcher is not a one-action site.

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Re: Auctions

#3 Post by J. Rock »

I've had very good experiences with KL and Benchmark for aged bottles.
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Re: Auctions

#4 Post by Warren Taranow »

Stephen,
That's a great idea. I was married in 1996, and bought cases of Calon Segur from that vintage. They'll probably outlast us.
1997 is a bit trickier. In Piedmont and Tuscany, it was a warm vintage, and while the wines were highly rated, many were pretty exuberant and showy young, and not all will last as long as you'd need. It's the same with 1997 California Cabernets. Some are holding up beautifully, but many were a flash in the pan. I was collecting a bunch as it was my son's birthyear, and there were quite a few disappointments. If you like Port, many of the 1997's will outlast us. Rioja was average, Loire valley pretty good and those wines can last.
For auctions, YMMV, but I often browse WineBid, K & L, TCWC (Chicago Wine Co), Heritage, Benchmark Wine Group, Spectrum, Wally's, plus others I'm sure I'm forgetting. If you log in, you can set 1997 as a favorite and most will let you know when wines come up for auction. Watch out for buyer's fees and shipping. You might think you got a bargain only to find the fees pushed the cost up 30% or more.
There are several great wine stores that stock or get older wines; Chambers Street in NY, Vinopolis in Portland, K&L and JJ Buckley in California. You can also check SommPicks and European Wine Resource. I'm sure folks here will chime in on others.
You can also put a request in here on Commerce Corner.
Happy Hunting, Happy Anniversary. and Cheers,
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Re: Auctions

#5 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

97 Jadot (gagey) Clos St Denis

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Re: Auctions

#6 Post by cjsavino »

Alternatively put a post in commerce corner looking for 1997 vintage wines
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Re: Auctions

#7 Post by Mark Golodetz »

Jadot’s 1997s are really good and very well priced.
My recommendation would be Philip Togni. In a slightly hit and miss vintage, the Togni is not only fantastic for the vintage, but in my top five California wines, period.
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#8 Post by Ethan Abraham »

Mark Golodetz wrote: September 15th, 2020, 4:24 am Jadot’s 1997s are really good and very well priced.
My recommendation would be Philip Togni. In a slightly hit and miss vintage, the Togni is not only fantastic for the vintage, but in my top five California wines, period.
HDH has a lot (ie 1 lot, not many) of 97 togni in the current auction

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Re: Auctions

#9 Post by Andrew A r n t f i e l d »

Warren’s assessment is excellent - both of the 1997 vintage and the best sites to purchase back vintages.

I’ve gone through quite a few 1997 Piedmont and Tuscan wines in the past few years and while some showed very well, the majority were getting tired (balsamic and brown sugar notes beginning to overtake the fruit in the Barolos) and a few were undrinkable.

FWIW, I’ve had better luck with 1997s from Northern Rhone and Burgundy.
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Re: Auctions

#10 Post by Marcu$ Stanley »

Ethan Abraham wrote: September 15th, 2020, 4:36 am
Mark Golodetz wrote: September 15th, 2020, 4:24 am Jadot’s 1997s are really good and very well priced.
My recommendation would be Philip Togni. In a slightly hit and miss vintage, the Togni is not only fantastic for the vintage, but in my top five California wines, period.
HDH has a lot (ie 1 lot, not many) of 97 togni in the current auction
LOL good luck to anyone bidding for it now!

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Re: Auctions

#11 Post by Jason T »

J. Rock wrote: September 14th, 2020, 8:58 pm I've had very good experiences with KL and Benchmark for aged bottles.
+1, and I’ll add in Cellar Raiders.
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Re: Auctions

#12 Post by EvanLodes »

if you want to splurge, the 97 Salon is really lovely. They recently released some of the late-disgorged version.

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Re: Auctions

#13 Post by S. Rash »

Warren Taranow wrote: September 14th, 2020, 9:19 pm Stephen,
That's a great idea. I was married in 1996, and bought cases of Calon Segur from that vintage. They'll probably outlast us.
1997 is a bit trickier. In Piedmont and Tuscany, it was a warm vintage, and while the wines were highly rated, many were pretty exuberant and showy young, and not all will last as long as you'd need. It's the same with 1997 California Cabernets. Some are holding up beautifully, but many were a flash in the pan. I was collecting a bunch as it was my son's birthyear, and there were quite a few disappointments. If you like Port, many of the 1997's will outlast us. Rioja was average, Loire valley pretty good and those wines can last.
For auctions, YMMV, but I often browse WineBid, K & L, TCWC (Chicago Wine Co), Heritage, Benchmark Wine Group, Spectrum, Wally's, plus others I'm sure I'm forgetting. If you log in, you can set 1997 as a favorite and most will let you know when wines come up for auction. Watch out for buyer's fees and shipping. You might think you got a bargain only to find the fees pushed the cost up 30% or more.
There are several great wine stores that stock or get older wines; Chambers Street in NY, Vinopolis in Portland, K&L and JJ Buckley in California. You can also check SommPicks and European Wine Resource. I'm sure folks here will chime in on others.
You can also put a request in here on Commerce Corner.
Happy Hunting, Happy Anniversary. and Cheers,
Warren

Thanks a lot. You gave me a lot of great options and I have a lot of searching ahead. Cheers!!
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Re: Auctions

#14 Post by S. Rash »

Mark Golodetz wrote: September 15th, 2020, 4:24 am Jadot’s 1997s are really good and very well priced.
My recommendation would be Philip Togni. In a slightly hit and miss vintage, the Togni is not only fantastic for the vintage, but in my top five California wines, period.
Thanks! I saw a few available on Wine Bid
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#15 Post by Kelly Walker »

I have a bunch of wine in the upcoming HDH auction including an OWC and singles of 1997 Salon. 1997 Giacosa Falletto and Rocche. Also 6 bottles of 1997 Monfortino.

Just sayin’ :)
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Re: Auctions

#16 Post by John Morris »

Warren Taranow wrote: September 14th, 2020, 9:19 pm .... 1997 is a bit trickier. In Piedmont and Tuscany, it was a warm vintage, and while the wines were highly rated, many were pretty exuberant and showy young, and not all will last as long as you'd need.
Andrew A r n t f i e l d wrote: September 15th, 2020, 4:41 am Warren’s assessment is excellent - both of the 1997 vintage and the best sites to purchase back vintages.

I’ve gone through quite a few 1997 Piedmont and Tuscan wines in the past few years and while some showed very well, the majority were getting tired (balsamic and brown sugar notes beginning to overtake the fruit in the Barolos) and a few were undrinkable.
I concur. 1997 was overrated in Tuscany and never considered that great in Piedmont, except by Wine Spectator (no credibility) and in some early remarks of Parker, but he later backtracked and cautioned about inconsistency.
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Re: Auctions

#17 Post by Marcu$ Stanley »

Mark Golodetz wrote: September 15th, 2020, 4:24 am Jadot’s 1997s are really good and very well priced.
My recommendation would be Philip Togni. In a slightly hit and miss vintage, the Togni is not only fantastic for the vintage, but in my top five California wines, period.
Interesting -- 1997 is excellent but I have preferred the 1992 and 2001 among the Togni bottles I have tried.

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Re: Auctions

#18 Post by Ethan Abraham »

Marcu$ Stanley wrote: September 15th, 2020, 6:21 am
Ethan Abraham wrote: September 15th, 2020, 4:36 am
Mark Golodetz wrote: September 15th, 2020, 4:24 am Jadot’s 1997s are really good and very well priced.
My recommendation would be Philip Togni. In a slightly hit and miss vintage, the Togni is not only fantastic for the vintage, but in my top five California wines, period.
HDH has a lot (ie 1 lot, not many) of 97 togni in the current auction
LOL good luck to anyone bidding for it now!
Believe me I wouldn't be pointing out a lot of 97 Jadots .. [snort.gif]

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Re: Auctions

#19 Post by Br1an Th0rne »

Marcu$ Stanley wrote: September 15th, 2020, 9:57 am
Mark Golodetz wrote: September 15th, 2020, 4:24 am Jadot’s 1997s are really good and very well priced.
My recommendation would be Philip Togni. In a slightly hit and miss vintage, the Togni is not only fantastic for the vintage, but in my top five California wines, period.
Interesting -- 1997 is excellent but I have preferred the 1992 and 2001 among the Togni bottles I have tried.
Togni is my clear cut favorite Napa Cab producer. That said, I’ve had two different ~ 6-packs of the ‘97 that I won at auction, and I ended up selling the majority of them. I greatly preferred the ‘92, and actually thought everything from the ‘90s was preferable to their ‘97, with the exception of ‘98 and ‘99. Given Mark’s (and others) high praise, I am convinced it was bad luck with my bottles.

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Re: Auctions

#20 Post by S. Rash »

Kelly Walker wrote: September 15th, 2020, 9:31 am I have a bunch of wine in the upcoming HDH auction including an OWC and singles of 1997 Salon. 1997 Giacosa Falletto and Rocche. Also 6 bottles of 1997 Monfortino.

Just sayin’ :)
What is the HDH auction?
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Re: Auctions

#21 Post by Dave McIsaac »

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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#22 Post by Eric Ifune »

Great Ports. Both Vintage and Colheita. Noval did very, very well. Douro table wines, if you can find them, are also terrific.

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Re: Auctions

#23 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f »

Andrew A r n t f i e l d wrote: September 15th, 2020, 4:41 am
FWIW, I’ve had better luck with 1997s from Northern Rhone and Burgundy.
Further to this comment, 1997 La Chapelle isn't one of the all-time great La Chapelles, but it's an excellent wine and was delicious when I opened a bottle a couple of years ago. I would certainly include it in any 1997 anniversary collection.

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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#24 Post by Jim Stewart »

If you both enjoy sweet wines, you could take a look at Sauternes/Barsac and see if anything appeals to you.
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#25 Post by S. Rash »

Jim Stewart wrote: September 15th, 2020, 2:32 pm If you both enjoy sweet wines, you could take a look at Sauternes/Barsac and see if anything appeals to you.
Thank you! I saw a couple 375's available on several auction sites
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#26 Post by Jim Stewart »

S. Rash wrote: September 16th, 2020, 10:17 am
Jim Stewart wrote: September 15th, 2020, 2:32 pm If you both enjoy sweet wines, you could take a look at Sauternes/Barsac and see if anything appeals to you.
Thank you! I saw a couple 375's available on several auction sites
375's are a great choice with these wines. Good luck.
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#27 Post by Arv R »

Although 1997 Tuscany may been overrated upon sellers/critics comments upon release, they are probably one of the better/safer buys for someone looking for anniversary wines today. The hype has been deburred, and the wines are likely to be ok or better. I had a delicous (on day#1) 97 Vino Nobile de Montepuliciano last week, a most pleasant surprise.
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#28 Post by Ramon C »

I missed it if a couple of syrah from Northern Rhone have already been suggested.

In any case, I’ll add ‘97 Chave Hermitage and ‘97 Jamet Cote Rotie.
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#29 Post by Jayson Cohen »

To add to what others have already written:

Loire reds and dessert whites are very good. (The dry whites may be ok although they tended to higher alcohol.) Except for Rougeard the reds (from the usual suspects on the separate thread on Loire reds) are still not expensive if you can find them. Neither are the dessert wines, even the Huet Vouvray 1er Tries and Cuvee Constance from what I’ve seen and for what you get.

1997 Chablis has turned out way better than anyone expected. Dauvissats are singing now if you can find a well stored bottle of Premier or Grand Cru. I didn’t have a premox problem with these. Now all gone.

1997 was killer in the Mosel-Saar-Ruwer as mentioned above. Von Schubert, Prum, Schaefer, Selbach-Oster. Donnhoff in the Nahe was very good too. But for these, good storage is especially critical, and I’ve had hit and miss with auction bottles for 1997 German Riesling due to storage / cooked bottles.
Last edited by Jayson Cohen on September 16th, 2020, 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#30 Post by Steve Crawford »

bryant, colgin, dv maya.
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#31 Post by brodie thomson »

Jayson Cohen wrote: September 16th, 2020, 12:56 pm
1997 was killer in the Mosel-Saar-Ruwer as mentioned above. Von Schubert, Prum, Schaefer, Selbach-Oster. Donnhoff in the Nahe was very good too. But for these, good storage is especially critical, and I’ve had hit and miss with auction bottles for 1997 German Riesling purely due to storage / cooked bottles.
Austrian Rieslings are very good too. Have had excellent bottles of F X Pichler from 1997.

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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#32 Post by Jayson Cohen »

brodie thomson wrote: September 16th, 2020, 12:58 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote: September 16th, 2020, 12:56 pm
1997 was killer in the Mosel-Saar-Ruwer as mentioned above. Von Schubert, Prum, Schaefer, Selbach-Oster. Donnhoff in the Nahe was very good too. But for these, good storage is especially critical, and I’ve had hit and miss with auction bottles for 1997 German Riesling purely due to storage / cooked bottles.
Austrian Rieslings are very good too. Have had excellent bottles of F X Pichler from 1997.
Agree! Lots of examples from back in the day, but I don’t have recent experience.

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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#33 Post by Eric Ifune »

Austrian Rieslings are very good too.
Prager's Achleiten and Freie Weingartner Wachau Singerreidel have been great recently. Brundlmayer's Gruner Veltliner Alte Reben has also been excellent

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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#34 Post by david paly »

Montelena, DV, Mondavi reserve, Beringer PR worth holding

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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#35 Post by Brian Pinci »

If you can find, the 1997 Phelps Insignia was wonderful when I opened it last (about 2 years ago). I have a magnum left and trying to find the right occasion to open.
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#36 Post by S. Rash »

Jayson Cohen wrote: September 16th, 2020, 12:56 pm To add to what others have already written:

Loire reds and dessert whites are very good. (The dry whites may be ok although they tended to higher alcohol.) Except for Rougeard the reds (from the usual suspects on the separate thread on Loire reds) are still not expensive if you can find them. Neither are the dessert wines, even the Huet Vouvray 1er Tries and Cuvee Constance from what I’ve seen and for what you get.

1997 Chablis has turned out way better than anyone expected. Dauvissats are singing now if you can find a well stored bottle of Premier or Grand Cru. I didn’t have a premox problem with these. Now all gone.

1997 was killer in the Mosel-Saar-Ruwer as mentioned above. Von Schubert, Prum, Schaefer, Selbach-Oster. Donnhoff in the Nahe was very good too. But for these, good storage is especially critical, and I’ve had hit and miss with auction bottles for 1997 German Riesling due to storage / cooked bottles.
Thanks a lot for the info. [cheers.gif]
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#37 Post by S. Rash »

Brian Pinci wrote: September 16th, 2020, 4:15 pm If you can find, the 1997 Phelps Insignia was wonderful when I opened it last (about 2 years ago). I have a magnum left and trying to find the right occasion to open.
it's not the same thing, but I found a 1997 Joseph Phelps Napa Valley Cab on an auction site
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#38 Post by Mattstolz »

sometimes there are some sleepers on Chicago Wine Co's auctions, and in general the auctions are not typically watched by as many people as the ones listed above. Benchmark has an auction site associated with it as well: Brentwood Wine. I've only ever looked through their auctions once though.

also, I recently had a 97 Pergole Torte and it was still really wound up. needed more time but potential for aging is definitely there.

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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#39 Post by S. Rash »

Any body have any experience with Delas Freres Hermitage Marquis De La Tourette? Or Rotllan Torra Priorat? Both look like great deals at TCWC
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#40 Post by wspohn »

Some from my cellar that show well:
1997 Giovanni Corino Barolo Vigna Giachini
1997 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage
1997 Niepoort Porto Vintage
1997 Fratelli Revello Barolo Vigna Giachini
Anything from Turley that year.
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#41 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

I wasn’t a huge fan of the 97 Chave hermitage I opened last year.

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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#42 Post by Ed Steinway »

Some 1997's that we bought for a birth-year were:

Dunn HM, Montelena, Spottswoode and Monte Bello from California.
Fonseca, Dow's and Taylor Fladgate Vintage Port
Climens and Rieussec Sauternes
Tignanello from Tuscany. Had the last one a coupe of years ago.

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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#43 Post by Brent C l a y t o n »

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: September 16th, 2020, 5:27 pm I wasn’t a huge fan of the 97 Chave hermitage I opened last year.
What does that mean?

I recall the 97 northern Rhones being a little on the lean side, especially when you compared them to the generally great to outstanding trio of 98-99-00.

I don't see David chiming in here yet so I'll be the contrarian and say go look for top Mosel producers at Spatlese and Auselese level. I think 1997 is underrated for Germany.
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#44 Post by S. Rash »

Brent C l a y t o n wrote: September 16th, 2020, 6:05 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: September 16th, 2020, 5:27 pm I wasn’t a huge fan of the 97 Chave hermitage I opened last year.
What does that mean?

I recall the 97 northern Rhones being a little on the lean side, especially when you compared them to the generally great to outstanding trio of 98-99-00.

I don't see David chiming in here yet so I'll be the contrarian and say go look for top Mosel producers at Spatlese and Auselese level. I think 1997 is underrated for Germany.
Thanks! [cheers.gif]
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#45 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng »

1997 Chave Hermitage

Ready to drink. Olive tapenade and garrique on the nose. Well integrated, elegant, soft tannins. Certainly Syrah, but not necessarily northern Rhône feeling. Slightly glossy and polished. Gained in power over an hour in glass. I liked this a lot but didn’t love it. Intellectually a beautiful, well made wine, but no visceral reaction to it.

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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#46 Post by S. Rash »

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: September 16th, 2020, 7:09 pm 1997 Chave Hermitage

Ready to drink. Olive tapenade and garrique on the nose. Well integrated, elegant, soft tannins. Certainly Syrah, but not necessarily northern Rhône feeling. Slightly glossy and polished. Gained in power over an hour in glass. I liked this a lot but didn’t love it. Intellectually a beautiful, well made wine, but no visceral reaction to it.
Great note! I’ll see if I can find one or more
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#47 Post by Nathan Smyth »

S. Rash wrote: September 14th, 2020, 8:07 pmwedding... 1997...
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#48 Post by Craig G »

S. Rash wrote: September 16th, 2020, 8:11 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: September 16th, 2020, 7:09 pm 1997 Chave Hermitage

Ready to drink. Olive tapenade and garrique on the nose. Well integrated, elegant, soft tannins. Certainly Syrah, but not necessarily northern Rhône feeling. Slightly glossy and polished. Gained in power over an hour in glass. I liked this a lot but didn’t love it. Intellectually a beautiful, well made wine, but no visceral reaction to it.
Great note! I’ll see if I can find one or more
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#49 Post by dteng »

K&L has a few 97 Potel Bonne Mares left at $139...had a bottle that was superb...so bought another four...
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Re: 1997 Anniversary Wines - Recommendations?

#50 Post by Mike Evans »

Here are some notes on 1997 Rhônes from the past several years, some of which should be inexpensive if you can find well-stored examples:

1997 Saint Cosme Côte-Rôtie Montsalier - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Côte-Rôtie (5/3/2020)
A little simple but drinking well, it needs some air for the fruit to come out and join the savory meatiness and iron. (90 pts.)

1997 Domaine Combier Crozes-Hermitage Clos des Grives - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Crozes-Hermitage (12/10/2018)
Pretty raspberry and blackberry and evergreen, showing an impressive level of complexity, a very good example of well-aged Syrah from the east bank of the Rhône. I had an incredible 1996 Chave Hermitage on Saturday and this is in the same league though not quite as electric. I’m very impressed. (92 pts.)

1997 Mathilde et Yves Gangloff Côte-Rôtie - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Côte-Rôtie (9/15/2018)
Tart raspberry with meat, a bit of pepper, and a bit of leather, a very well done old style Côte Rotie with plenty of acid, which doesn’t bother me. (92 pts.)

1997 Domaine Jamet Côte-Rôtie - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Côte-Rôtie (4/27/2018)
Very elegant, more on the red fruit side with a dash of pepper, with nice acidity holding it together, it is an excellent wine that was overwhelmed by the exceptional 1998 served along side it. (92 pts.)

1997 Domaine Louis Cheze St. Joseph Cuvée Prestige de Caroline - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, St. Joseph (12/23/2016)
Crisp tart raspberry with a little leather and spice and buttressed by soft tannin, it's delicious, but really crying out for food. It is showing some evolution, but at a much slower rate than I would have expected. (92 pts.)

1997 Domaine de la Rectorie Collioure Coume Pascole - France, Languedoc Roussillon, Roussillon, Collioure (11/7/2015)
A little mint, brambly fruit, pretty close to peak, but holding very well. (91 pts.)

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