2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

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Sh@n A
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2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#1 Post by Sh@n A » September 25th, 2020, 6:57 pm

Did anyone whiff the vintage? What should one be avoiding? One wine that I am curious about is 2016 F. Rinaldi Brunate... curiously ambigous score from AG (although perhaps that tasting was too early) and a lone less enthusiastic CT note. I bought a 375ml I have not had a chance to open. One I am avoiding is $500 Bartolo.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#2 Post by Rob M » September 25th, 2020, 7:05 pm

The only whiff I've had is the Giacosa Falletto. I would not buy it at $60 much less near $200.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#3 Post by Barry L i p t o n » September 25th, 2020, 8:00 pm

I like my Barolo old so not too knowledgeable about the last decade’s vintages but has Giacosa fallen that far?

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#4 Post by Kris Patten » September 25th, 2020, 8:04 pm

I'd buy them all to drink.....at the right price. To cellar that list is greatly reduced.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#5 Post by Kris Patten » September 25th, 2020, 8:13 pm

Barry L i p t o n wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 8:00 pm
I like my Barolo old so not too knowledgeable about the last decade’s vintages but has Giacosa fallen that far?
We sell Giacosa, but the comments are concerning, will pull some 2016 samples and see.

I will say the historical significance of Giacosa is unrealistic footprints to follow for anyone as you are talking about one of the most significant Estates in the world, not just in Piedmont, and losing an icon makes it that much harder.

In Burgundy Henri Jayer just went away so those pressures were not transferred.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#6 Post by John Morris » September 25th, 2020, 8:29 pm

Rob M wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 7:05 pm
The only whiff I've had is the Giacosa Falletto. I would not buy it at $60 much less near $200.
I haven't had a young Giacosa in a while, but my experience some years back was that the often showed poorly young -- thin and unsatisfying.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#7 Post by T. Williams » September 26th, 2020, 2:37 am

I am not buying the ones I can't afford. Otherwise hunting season is open. Where are you finding 375s? I always see people posting pictures of older very nice bottles in 375 but they seem to be unicorns in the marketplace

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#8 Post by Sh@n A » September 26th, 2020, 4:50 am

Burlotto 375s and this year saw F. rinaldi 375s. Both I found on wine searcher.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#9 Post by Rob M » September 26th, 2020, 5:54 am

John Morris wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 8:29 pm
Rob M wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 7:05 pm
The only whiff I've had is the Giacosa Falletto. I would not buy it at $60 much less near $200.
I haven't had a young Giacosa in a while, but my experience some years back was that the often showed poorly young -- thin and unsatisfying.
The texture on the ‘16 Falletto was quite odd, in that I found it massively tannic on the palate upon entry, but then it faded and was thin on the mid palate with a very short finish. So it wasn’t exactly thin as a whole, it seemed simultaneously very tannic and also not very concentrated. I haven’t been around long enough in the wine world to have tasted the Giacosas I love today when they were at the same age, but the 2004, 2001 era Giacosa are so elegant but also so well concentrated, I find it hard to believe they were like this 10 years ago.

The aromatics were pretty decent in my opinion, and had some of the signature dark fruit, spices I find in Falletto in older vintages.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#10 Post by F.Daner » September 26th, 2020, 7:39 am

Hi Kris- just to clarify what term do you qualify to cellar ? I am expecting to drink many of these wines between 2024-2036. I won't have the discipline for most to go 20 years as good as some are drinking now. Do you think this vintage won't last 20 years ?

I can definitely see some that I'll drink before age 10 though but thinking that is indictive of winemaking and not as much as the vintage?
Kris Patten wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 8:04 pm
I'd buy them all to drink.....at the right price. To cellar that list is greatly reduced.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#11 Post by F.Daner » September 26th, 2020, 7:58 am

I bought the normale, Brunate and Cannubi. A thread here on alternatives to G. Rinaldi helped influence that but solid notes and reviews especially over recent vintages. There is a thread on Vinous on the 16's from folks who have already had quite a bit. I'd love to find a 375 to try as I won't open a bottle till 2024 or so. These are classically made and AG's note was before release. It was a positive note though.

What's interesting is there is not much of a price difference in the US between all 3. I paid $55,67,70.

I haven't found anything not to buy yet. Here's what I've tried so far

Burlotto- will buy whatever I can find at a decent price. I've had the 15 and 16 normale recently. Both great but the 16 has the edge.
Vietti Castiglione- from 375, great now but has serious potential
Cordero di Montezemolo Monfalletto- more modern in style. Every bit the 95 points AG gave it. Have had 2 bottles so far. It will be tough to let these age
Scavino - solid 90 points for me. Got better with 3 hours of air and picked up weight. Good for the price but not sure I'd run out and buy a bunch more. I am interested in how the Cru's do.
Massolino- Classic Serralunga. a bit of a science experiment as I knew this one was too young. Has the stuffing to be really great in 5 years or so. It was very good on day 2. Will be getting some more to cellar but won't consider opening again for at least 3 years.
Sh@n A wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 6:57 pm
Did anyone whiff the vintage? What should one be avoiding? One wine that I am curious about is 2016 F. Rinaldi Brunate... curiously ambigous score from AG (although perhaps that tasting was too early) and a lone less enthusiastic CT note. I bought a 375ml I have not had a chance to open. One I am avoiding is $500 Bartolo.
Last edited by F.Daner on September 26th, 2020, 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#12 Post by Michael S. Monie » September 26th, 2020, 8:28 am

I find all of this talk about drinking young Barolo to be quite astonishing. We all know that Nebbiolo is a tannic beast that requires decades of aging to be approachable.
Last edited by Michael S. Monie on September 26th, 2020, 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#13 Post by Andrew Gold » September 26th, 2020, 11:05 am

Michael S. Monie wrote:
September 26th, 2020, 8:28 am
I find all of this talk about drinking young Barolo to be quite astonishing. We all know that Nebiolo is a tannic beast that requires decades of aging to be approachable.
I can't tell if the above is tongue in cheek?

Of course you're welcome to enjoy barolo or any other wine at any point in time... but I personally like it at most points on the curve... tannins can be enjoyable.

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#14 Post by Markus S » September 26th, 2020, 12:51 pm

Andrew Gold wrote:
September 26th, 2020, 11:05 am
[... tannins can be enjoyable.
So can self-flagellation but doesn't mean we should partake.
$ _ € ® e . k @

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#15 Post by J Dove » September 26th, 2020, 1:34 pm

I haven’t had anything yet that I wasn’t glad I bought. So far, I’ve tried:

Gianfrancesco Alessandria Normale — VG, but coarse
P Scavino Ravera — a slight touch of volatility, but really excellent and interesting. Expect good things here — good value
Vietti Castiglione — I loaded up after tasting a bottle. The 2005 is excellent right now. I think this will be a QPR monster.
Brovia Normale — Had it next to the P. Colla Rongaglie and the Brovia really didn’t hold up. The Brovia is pretty wound up but nicely aromatic. The Rongaglie is really, really good.

Lots on deck. I like to try a single bottle then just let them be for a few years. They’ve been pretty enjoyable so far. Nothing was really shut down yet.

Anyone had Vajra’s Bricco della Viole yet? Or F Alessandria Monvigliero? The former’s pretty tough to try young. Any normales that were particularly good?
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#16 Post by Jon Drummond » September 26th, 2020, 2:14 pm

Kris Patten wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 8:13 pm

I will say the historical significance of Giacosa is unrealistic footprints to follow
Giacosa chooses to charge a very high price based on their reputation and historical significance, so the quality of the wines should be held to account accordingly. Can't have the pie and eat it as well.

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#17 Post by Kris Patten » September 26th, 2020, 2:26 pm

Jon Drummond wrote:
September 26th, 2020, 2:14 pm
Kris Patten wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 8:13 pm

I will say the historical significance of Giacosa is unrealistic footprints to follow
Giacosa chooses to charge a very high price based on their reputation and historical significance, so the quality of the wines should be held to account accordingly. Can't have the pie and eat it as well.
Pretty sure I was agreeing with your sentiments. If not, it is what I meant.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#18 Post by Kris Patten » September 26th, 2020, 2:40 pm

F.Daner wrote:
September 26th, 2020, 7:39 am
Hi Kris- just to clarify what term do you qualify to cellar ? I am expecting to drink many of these wines between 2024-2036. I won't have the discipline for most to go 20 years as good as some are drinking now. Do you think this vintage won't last 20 years ?

I can definitely see some that I'll drink before age 10 though but thinking that is indictive of winemaking and not as much as the vintage?
Kris Patten wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 8:04 pm
I'd buy them all to drink.....at the right price. To cellar that list is greatly reduced.
Cellar....15-20 years. Outside of possible wines offering poor value, I can't think of a Barolo in 2016 I wouldn't buy at the right price. I did buy a lot of different wines as it's my first boys birthyear, especially Elio Grasso in 750ml and mags.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#19 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 26th, 2020, 2:53 pm

J Dove wrote:
September 26th, 2020, 1:34 pm
I haven’t had anything yet that I wasn’t glad I bought. So far, I’ve tried:

Gianfrancesco Alessandria Normale — VG, but coarse
P Scavino Ravera — a slight touch of volatility, but really excellent and interesting. Expect good things here — good value
Vietti Castiglione — I loaded up after tasting a bottle. The 2005 is excellent right now. I think this will be a QPR monster.
Brovia Normale — Had it next to the P. Colla Rongaglie and the Brovia really didn’t hold up. The Brovia is pretty wound up but nicely aromatic. The Rongaglie is really, really good.

Lots on deck. I like to try a single bottle then just let them be for a few years. They’ve been pretty enjoyable so far. Nothing was really shut down yet.

Anyone had Vajra’s Bricco della Viole yet? Or F Alessandria Monvigliero? The former’s pretty tough to try young. Any normales that were particularly good?
I haven’t had the 16 Brovia yet. But the 13, which is a somewhat similarly structured vintage from what I’m hearing, really needed a day to open on release three years ago.

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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#20 Post by J Dove » September 26th, 2020, 3:56 pm

I bought the 2013 too and remember it having more stuffing on release. I still bought the 2016 anyway. I suspect it will be just fine. But, it’s certainly the least obvious bet of those I’ve tried so far.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#21 Post by J Dove » September 26th, 2020, 4:23 pm

BTW, finishing the last of the Scavino Ravera I’ve been milking for the past 3 nights. If you like things on the fleshy side, I highly recommend it. It reminds me of my now 3-year-old memory of the 2013 Elio Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate.
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Re: 2016 Barolo : what NOT to buy?

#22 Post by F.Daner » September 27th, 2020, 3:35 am

Jim- I haven't opened any Cru's yet but Scavino's will probably be the first I give a whirl. Their base Barolo was very open and on the fleshier side. If you come across Cordero Monfalletto give one a try. On the modern side for sure but really good right now.
J Dove wrote:
September 26th, 2020, 4:23 pm
BTW, finishing the last of the Scavino Ravera I’ve been milking for the past 3 nights. If you like things on the fleshy side, I highly recommend it. It reminds me of my now 3-year-old memory of the 2013 Elio Grasso Ginestra Casa Mate.
Fred

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